Stadiums and Arenas of Canada

[Coldrsx]

Great shot by Airboy - Arena and new LRT station in foreground.


(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5452/9789607423_28a07baf9e_b.jpg)

[Chadillaccc]

It looks like the have already started utility work and a bit of moest excavation! Nice are they going to have a bi of parking underground?

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Unfortunately not - based on figures from BBM Canada

http://www.bbm.ca/en/weekly-top-30-tv-programs

Last 4 years SB vs Grey Cup

6.44 million vs 5.46 million
7.28 million vs 4.38 million
6.53 million vs 4.94 million
6.01 million vs 5.08 million

Basically co-inciding with the switch from broadcast to cable. The CBC was getting around 4 mill even before the introduction of PPM technology, which basically doubled CFL (and other sports) ratings overnight.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

It looks like the have already started utility work and a bit of moest excavation! Nice are they going to have a bi of parking underground?

This work is all preliminary work. Geotech and pile testing.

1 level.

[Airboy]

You forgot this one Ian.
Clark Park, Commonwealth and Rexall.
+ The Commonwealth Rec Centre as well.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Unfortunately not - based on figures from BBM Canada

http://www.bbm.ca/en/weekly-top-30-tv-programs

Last 4 years SB vs Grey Cup

6.44 million vs 5.46 million
7.28 million vs 4.38 million
6.53 million vs 4.94 million
6.01 million vs 5.08 million

I think the move from OTA to strictly cable has hurt the Grey Cup vs Super Bowl numbers. Eventhough so called "experts" in sports broadcast may disagree, being on broadcast TV still gives a sport more credibility to the casual viewer. Case in point (Canada only)

NBA, MLB not on CTV or CBC - viewership very poor (despite what the shrills on the FAN 590 say)

NHL is on CBC - viewership through the roof
NFL is on CTV - viewership very good

CFL is on TSN exclusively and numbers are very good, but think how much better they would be if the playoffs and Grey Cup were simulcasted on CTV main network.
These are just my observations, but I will maintain that the CFL made a poor choice not negotiating with TSN to have the Grey Cup on the main broadcast network.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Great shot by Airboy - Arena and new LRT station in foreground.


(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5452/9789607423_28a07baf9e_b.jpg)

Tunnel is not very deep. The station appears to be in the middle of what would be the most natural extension of a block plan.

[Chadillaccc]

The tunnel isn't very deep because you're looking at the section near the portal.

I'm not sure what the average depth is for Edmonton's subway, but having walked up the stairs from Grandin a few times, it is at least 20 meters deep.

[franktko]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

I think the move from OTA to strictly cable has hurt the Grey Cup vs Super Bowl numbers. Eventhough so called "experts" in sports broadcast may disagree, being on broadcast TV still gives a sport more credibility to the casual viewer. Case in point (Canada only)

NBA, MLB not on CTV or CBC - viewership very poor (despite what the shrills on the FAN 590 say)

NHL is on CBC - viewership through the roof
NFL is on CTV - viewership very good

CFL is on TSN exclusively and numbers are very good, but think how much better they would be if the playoffs and Grey Cup were simulcasted on CTV main network.
These are just my observations, but I will maintain that the CFL made a poor choice not negotiating with TSN to have the Grey Cup on the main broadcast network.

According to CRTC, we were 89% on cable/dish in 2006... I wouldn't think it would make a big difference. I would suspect that the remaining 10% that are not subscribed don't really give a sh&t about what's on tv...

(Source: http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/publications/reports/radio/cmri.htm)

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by franktko

According to CRTC, we were 89% on cable/dish in 2006... I wouldn't think it would make a big difference. I would suspect that the remaining 10% that are not subscribed don't really give a sh&t about what's on tv...

(Source: http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/publications/reports/radio/cmri.htm)

TSN isn't basic cable everywhere, it is available in 9.1 million households out of 12 mill that have cable (Source). So out of 13.3 mill Canadian households (2011 census), TSN reaches <70% vs basically complete penetration for CTV. The casual viewer is very important for one-offs like the Grey Cup and Superbowl. And when TSN only reaches 70% of possible viewers, much of the casual viewership is out of reach at the outset.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Unfortunately not - based on figures from BBM Canada

http://www.bbm.ca/en/weekly-top-30-tv-programs

Last 4 years SB vs Grey Cup

6.44 million vs 5.46 million
7.28 million vs 4.38 million
6.53 million vs 4.94 million
6.01 million vs 5.08 million

That's pretty impressive.

It's an even higher number when you account for the number of people who watch at Superbowl parties. All to watch 2 teams play who are neither the home team or even the home country.

[Barnard's Star]

The way they rig things (at least in Ontario) is you can get TSN with basic cable on Bell or Sportsnet with basic cable on Rogers but you need an upgraded package to get both on either provider. So people choose one or the other. I'm one of the few who chooses to live without. (Cable/satellite penetration is shrinking btw, at least modestly.)

Regarding viewership numbers for the two football leagues, the NFL also comes out on top when comparing conference championships with division finals -- 1.985 million vs. 1.645 million last year, according to BBM. I believe these games are a better metric of the committed fan base. I'm with Chadillaccc's earlier comments that the CFL numbers should be taken as good in themselves regardless of how the comparison looks.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Berklon

That's pretty impressive.

It's an even higher number when you account for the number of people who watch at Superbowl parties. All to watch 2 teams play who are neither the home team or even the home country.

The introduction of PPM technology is meant to account for that and the bar/pub crowd.

[elly63]

The story of SkyDome

The idea for building an enclosed sports venue came following the Grey Cup game in November 1982, held at the outdoor Exhibition Stadium. The game was played in a driving rainstorm that left most of the crowd drenched, leading the media to call it "the Rain Bowl"--a nickname that has stuck to this day. Many of the seats were completely exposed to the elements, forcing thousands to watch the game from the concession section. To make a bad experience even worse, the washrooms overflowed. In attendance that day was then-Ontario Premier Bill Davis, and the poor conditions were seen by over 7,862,000 television viewers in Canada (at the time the largest TV audience ever in Canada). The following day, at a rally at Toronto City Hall, tens of thousands of people who were there to see the Toronto Argonauts began to chant, "We want a dome! We want a dome!" So too did others who began to discuss the possibility of an all-purpose, all-weather stadium.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Barnard's Star

The way they rig things (at least in Ontario) is you can get TSN with basic cable on Bell or Sportsnet with basic cable on Rogers

When I was on the Bell satellite the basic package didn't include sports or American channels. The people who had that package often had shenanigans. Ahh the good old days.

[elly63]

Still nothing will ever come remotely close to September 28, 1972. I don't think anything will even come close to the replay they had that night. It's very rare to see estimates on it. I've seen 14 of 21 million (total population) IIRC

Henderson has scored for Canada

A few years ago when the Canadian men’s team won the Olympic gold medal CTV put out a release stating that was the most-watched TV moment ever in Canada. This is horseshit. There is no comparison. First of all the new ratings system introduced just prior to the Vancouver Games was still counting goldfish in the next room. Second, there were fewer entertainment distractions in 1972. There was no HBO or TSN or even CNN, just what you could pull in between channels two and 13 on the dial. City-TV was days old and you still needed a coat hanger and some tin foil to pull in their iffy UHF signal. There was no XBox or even a Betamax VHS machine attached to your parent's French Provincial set.

The reality is there was no way to estimate how many Canadians tuned in in ’72. There were no overnights as ratings results came in weeks later. Up until the ‘90s, Global was still taking their Ontario estimate and doubling it to get the national score.

The number, basically, was everybody. You weren’t going to miss this, and you would never forget it. Paul Henderson was our Neil Armstrong, and we were all over the moon.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Barnard's Star

The way they rig things (at least in Ontario) is you can get TSN with basic cable on Bell or Sportsnet with basic cable on Rogers but you need an upgraded package to get both on either provider. So people choose one or the other. I'm one of the few who chooses to live without. (Cable/satellite penetration is shrinking btw, at least modestly.)

Regarding viewership numbers for the two football leagues, the NFL also comes out on top when comparing conference championships with division finals -- 1.985 million vs. 1.645 million last year, according to BBM. I believe these games are a better metric of the committed fan base. I'm with Chadillaccc's earlier comments that the CFL numbers should be taken as good in themselves regardless of how the comparison looks.

Actually, your better measure/comparison of committed viewers is the regular season ratings on the same network when both seasons are running, i.e. now on TSN.

[Barnard's Star]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Actually, your better measure/comparison of committed viewers is the regular season ratings on the same network when both seasons are running, i.e. now on TSN.

The problem is you're comparing four games to fifteen. Any given CFL game right now ought to beat any given NFL game. But I have no doubt that over the course of the weekend more NFL is getting watched. Not a whole lot more but some.

The conference / divisional finals are two each per league and draw people who've followed the sport frequently.

edit: For the record, I very rarely watch the NFL. I'd be quite happy if the Grey Cup were still pulling 7.8 million people.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Berklon

That's pretty impressive.

It's an even higher number when you account for the number of people who watch at Superbowl parties. All to watch 2 teams play who are neither the home team or even the home country.

At almost every Super Bowl party I have been to, there were several people there who did not even understand the rules of the game at all but simply went along with the gang. Not great from a football perspective but it shows you the power of the NFL machine.

[GlassCity]

I was working this weekend and they had the Seahawks-49ers game on (I work at a restaurant). Seeing little glimpses of it, and the way it's presented, it's not hard to see the appeal of the NFL. The players are basically celebrities. It all seems larger than life. 2 elite teams going head to head.

While a lot of people talk about enjoying the CFL because the players are so accessible, I think for the casual viewer it hurts it. They don't want to see peers—they want to see superheros. And the NFL brings that.

The other big reason are the big match-ups. Thousands of Canadians are fans of the Patriots, even here in the west. How many Canadians do you think cheer for Jacksonville? As funny as this may sound, there isn't enough disparity in the CFL. With too much parity, all games seem equal. But I think this is a product of having only 8 teams—the elite teams in the CFL play each other all the time. In the NFL they'll play once or sometimes twice, and it's always spread out. It becomes an event. You don't even like football but you know it's big, you know it's important and you know you have to watch it. The CFL's numbers are incredible for such a small, relatively low-budget league, but it'll be hard for it to become this phenomenon that the NFL has become in Vancouver and from what I hear Toronto.

For what it's worth, I've watched every CFL game for the past few years and I really don't follow the NFL at all. Kind of an outsider's observation.