90 George | 64m | 19 fl | Completed

[theoldv]

Originally Posted by JackBauer24

Location - 90 George and 700 Sussex are great locations, no argument there.
Concierge - I'm not 100% sure about 700 Sussex, but 90 George's concierge would better be described as a doorman or security guard, concierges should do more than hold doors.
Price - price/sq. ft. shouldn't be a factor in evaluating the quality of a condo, quality/sq. ft. should be considered. Just because something has a $1M price tag, doesn't mean it's built to a $1M level.
# of $1M+ condos - this is a direct result of the size of the condos themselves. I could slap together 2 or 3 smaller condos at any downtown highrise and have a few $1M+ condos in my inventory, to me that has no barring on the quality of the condo.

I agree with the previous poster, Charlesfort is one of, if not, the best builder in the city, his higher quality comes with a much higher price - but you pay for what you get in their projects. I hesitate to include 700 Sussex in the category of upper echelon condos, since the location is the only feature that sets it apart from other condos, but even at that, its at one of the busiest vehicle traffic intersections in the city, and being only 7 levels, I can't imagine the traffic noise isn't a factor even on the higher levels.

there were multiple guys at concierge during my time there. one used to work at a hotel in the same capacity and provided the same level service. the next was awful and basically a security guard/doorman and when he finally got the boot the next one was quite good.. that being said, i moved out over 5 years ago and quite honestly i still miss the building.

you're discussing quality, i was replying to a question about league. it's as much to do about status and exclusivity as it is quality. my barrier to entry point speaks to this as well.

all the units are large not by means of slapping smaller units together. room dimensions are significantly bigger than your average condo. for example my 1br/1bath unit was over 900 sq feet. quite honestly i did not find noise much of an issue in either of my units but my partner will happily complain to you about the snowplows or that one night when helsinki (was that the name?) had their system on way way way too loud.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Art Galeery= blah.

Gatineau hills are miles away, and just hills.

The market view would probably be better from a lower floor no?

.

An aerial view of the market is nothing special - just roofs of builings and parking lots.

The Gatineau Hills (which are quite nice, the National Gallery, Parliament, Château Laurier and Notre-Dame are what you want views of in this area.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by chailinchou

Thanks to all for the thoughtful suggestions. Here's what I've learned in the last few days from talking to 2 lawyers and reviewing the status certificate:

1. Lawyers said this is the worst status they've ever seen. Multiple litigations that could drag on for many years with legal fees funded by special assessment on the tenants i.e. high condo fees that could last for years (and get even higher)

2. Reserve fund less than 50% full even after special assessment

3. Banks likely won't lend based on the status certificate

4. High condo fees, legal issues, special assessments, underfunded reserve, distressed owner and difficulty securing mortgage by interested buyers will ultimately result in a serious price correction.

I'm obviously going to stay away now and I hope everyone can benefit from this information. Please note the information above may contain speculations and should not be considered 100% accurate. Do your own research please. Feel free to correct my info or add to the discussion.

The nature of the lawsuit would be important. Are they (condo corp) the plaintif? if so are they likely to win? Will this than fully fund the reserve study? An example of a common "good" lawsuit would be an owner (s) has not paid their condo fees in years and has thousands of dollars outstanding. This will eventually be recovered and improve the balance sheet of the corp.

I would highly doubt number 3. Regardless you could obviously make have finance approval as a condition.

While none of this is good you might be able to get a good deal because of it. Most Realtors and lawyers will tell you walk away at any complication to cover themselves, but sometimes it is worth looking deeper.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

The nature of the lawsuit would be important. Are they (condo corp) the plaintif? if so are they likely to win? Will this than fully fund the reserve study? An example of a common "good" lawsuit would be an owner (s) has not paid their condo fees in years and has thousands of dollars outstanding. This will eventually be recovered and improve the balance sheet of the corp.

I would highly doubt number 3. Regardless you could obviously make have finance approval as a condition.

While none of this is good you might be able to get a good deal because of it. Most Realtors and lawyers will tell you walk away at any complication to cover themselves, but sometimes it is worth looking deeper.

I wondered about this too. I think if the condo corp is implicated, it must be as a plaintiff - I have trouble imagining a situation where they'd be the defendant, unless the board has screwed up big time at some point.

[Boxster]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

The nature of the lawsuit would be important. Are they (condo corp) the plaintif? if so are they likely to win? Will this than fully fund the reserve study? An example of a common "good" lawsuit would be an owner (s) has not paid their condo fees in years and has thousands of dollars outstanding. This will eventually be recovered and improve the balance sheet of the corp.

I would highly doubt number 3. Regardless you could obviously make have finance approval as a condition.

While none of this is good you might be able to get a good deal because of it. Most Realtors and lawyers will tell you walk away at any complication to cover themselves, but sometimes it is worth looking deeper.

They may win the lawsuit, however Canril Corp. may go bankrupt.

[chailinchou]

Some good points were raised highlighting the neutrality of the lawyer's interpretation. As an MD, I understand the need to emphasize negative outcomes to cover one's butt. Perhaps the best thing to do is to provide all the information and let everyone chime in. I've scanned part of the status certificate and would love to hear everyone's opinion. I would still love to purchase the unit if it's not going to burn me in 5 years.

I don't have much experience in reading legal documents or with the real estate market, so if anyone can provide some insights to this status certificate, that would be much appreciated. I'd like to know if this situation is bad, how bad is it compared to others, and the worst case scenarios. Thanks in advance!












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[chailinchou]

any thoughts guys?

[bobcage]

Originally Posted by chailinchou

any thoughts guys?

buy galleria http://richcraft.com/galleria2/

the best quality in that area and easy to flip once you're done with it

[JackBauer24]

Originally Posted by bobcage

buy galleria http://richcraft.com/galleria2/

the best quality in that area and easy to flip once you're done with it

Perhaps you mean it's good value (quality for price) because its certainly not the best quality.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by JackBauer24

Perhaps you mean it's good value (quality for price) because its certainly not the best quality.

I kind of wondered about that. One is not accustomed to seeing "best quality" in the same sentence as the name of that developer!

[bobcage]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I kind of wondered about that. One is not accustomed to seeing "best quality" in the same sentence as the name of that developer!

builder aside ....
best quality in that "area" is the galleria(s)
"bang for your buck" galleria wins hands down.

I went through them all so I know ......

lots of upgrades ei Stainless steel appliances, granite counters ect were all included in the pricing @ the Galleria.

200 Rideau or any of the other Claridge buildings you had to pay for any upgrades or you'd get cheap carpet and cheap counter tops and cheap white coloured apliances

also,the price per sqf were initially a bit cheaper at the Galleria but I think that has now leveled off now....

The Galleria are probably under estimated because of the taller towers around them -

[bobcage]

Originally Posted by bobcage

builder aside ....
best quality in that "area" is the galleria(s)
"bang for your buck" galleria wins hands down.

I went through them all so I know ......

lots of upgrades ei Stainless steel appliances, granite counters ect were all included in the pricing @ the Galleria.

200 Rideau or any of the other Claridge buildings you had to pay for any upgrades or you'd get cheap carpet and cheap counter tops and cheap white coloured apliances

also,the price per sqf were initially a bit cheaper at the Galleria but I think that has now leveled off now....

The Galleria are probably under estimated because of the taller towers around them -

90 George is still way better but their mess is a deal killer :-(

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Boxster

They may win the lawsuit, however Canril Corp. may go bankrupt.

Is Canril the defendant? If this is the case normally this would be a concern but don't they still own several units in the building?

[JackBauer24]

I'm sure there are a lot of people on this forum who have done similar research, including myself, and I really don't agree with your assessment.

Again, there is a big difference between "quality" and "value" - quality is the outcome of the work being done, regardless of price; value is comparing that quality to the cost/price. I agree that the Galleria has decent value, the quality is certainly not the best - not even close.

When comparing specs of competing builders, unfortunately it requires more than just a quick scan, an in depth analysis is needed - eg. Initial scan might reveal that Builders A and B both offer appliances in their prices. Conclusion, both have same value.
A further analysis may reveal that Build A is offering cheap Whirlpool appliances, whereas Builder B might provide higher quality AEG or Miele appliances. Same thing with granite, some builders offer 1 1/2" granite, others offer 3/4" granite.

I will agree that Galleria is better value than Claridge Plaza. But that's not a difficult thing to do.

Originally Posted by bobcage

builder aside ....
best quality in that "area" is the galleria(s)
"bang for your buck" galleria wins hands down.

I went through them all so I know ......

lots of upgrades ei Stainless steel appliances, granite counters ect were all included in the pricing @ the Galleria.

200 Rideau or any of the other Claridge buildings you had to pay for any upgrades or you'd get cheap carpet and cheap counter tops and cheap white coloured apliances

also,the price per sqf were initially a bit cheaper at the Galleria but I think that has now leveled off now....

The Galleria are probably under estimated because of the taller towers around them -

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by JackBauer24

I'm sure there are a lot of people on this forum who have done similar research, including myself, and I really don't agree with your assessment.

Again, there is a big difference between "quality" and "value" - quality is the outcome of the work being done, regardless of price; value is comparing that quality to the cost/price. I agree that the Galleria has decent value, the quality is certainly not the best - not even close.

When comparing specs of competing builders, unfortunately it requires more than just a quick scan, an in depth analysis is needed - eg. Initial scan might reveal that Builders A and B both offer appliances in their prices. Conclusion, both have same value.
A further analysis may reveal that Build A is offering cheap Whirlpool appliances, whereas Builder B might provide higher quality AEG or Miele appliances. Same thing with granite, some builders offer 1 1/2" granite, others offer 3/4" granite.

I will agree that Galleria is better value than Claridge Plaza. But that's not a difficult thing to do.

Agree with above. Some people seem to confuse free upgrades with quality and luxury. Sort of like equating all-inclusive resorts with luxury. Even if you gut a unit in Galleria and install the same finishes as 700 Sussex or 90 George, you will still have an inferior product. The lobby, elevator, insulation, windows, doors are all likely to be of cheaper quality. You can probably also add Neighbours to the list above

All that said I agree that Galleria is good value. It helps that it is on a substantially cheaper piece of real estate than units closer to the Market, to say nothing of by far better locations of 90 George and 700 Sussex.

[theoldv]

it's also pretty bold to say a condo (let alone any piece of real estate) will be "easy to flip" in 5 years time..

[bobcage]

Originally Posted by theoldv

it's also pretty bold to say a condo (let alone any piece of real estate) will be "easy to flip" in 5 years time..

easier

[c_speed3108]

I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. If you want that see a real lawyer.

There are 4 separate legal proceedings.

1) The first is against (presumably) Canril or some related shell company. This is for a first year deficit. My understanding of the condo act is the developer must cover first year budget shortfalls. This is to (try to) prevent developers telling buyers a new condo will have super low fees. The condo would have a pretty good case here I would think.

2) The second is against the owner of the commerical space. I imagine this is again a shell corp owned by Canril. Sounds like the condo feels it is owned money for certain services. This is going to some form of arbitration.

3) The condo is suing (presumably) Canril misrepresenting how much the reserve fund contributions need to be. (i have no idea if this is a good case or not)

4) The commercial owner (again probably a shell corp owned by Canril) is suing the condo corp for various things the condo corp has down. The condo corp believes this is BS and the condos insurer is defending this lawsuit.

So plaintiff in 3 is the condo corp. The condo and it's insurer is the defendant in the last one.



Again. NOT legal advice. This is just a layman's explanation of what all these are.

[c_speed3108]

A couple other observations:

The current budget for operations is showing a deficit:

Condo corps can not run a deficit by law -> this will force a special assessment at the end of the year. Expect that.

The condo reserve fund is also short. This will have to be made up somehow. They seem to be trying the lawsuit route. Failing that either a special assessment or an increase in fees.

The is a current ongoing special assessment to cover all these legal costs.


---------------
Basically this place sounds like the land of special assessments. If you buy, make sure you have a good personal reserve of cash sitting around, and expect fees to go up.

[Boxster]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Is Canril the defendant? If this is the case normally this would be a concern but don't they still own several units in the building?

Yes they appear to still own at least 9 units which is part of the problem as the owner (Canril or related Co.) cannot afford to carry those units for much longer (taxes, condo fees, interest, etc...) I presume. In addition, the commercial space is not 100% leased.