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  #1881  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2013, 1:39 AM
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The construction isn't all that interesting yet. The new bridge at Nipigon will be built in the exact same spot as the existing bridge though, I'm not sure how they will pull it off but next summer, that will be pretty cool to see.

Even if the construction is underwhelming, the scenery is worth it. The way the asphalt changes colours with the surrounding geology is pretty cool, too.
     
     
  #1882  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2013, 12:29 PM
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New video of Hwy 417 through Kanata shot in June. Hwy 417 was being widened from four to six and eight lanes when this video was shot. Construction is to be completed next year.
Video Link
     
     
  #1883  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2013, 3:01 PM
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Sonysnob... I just LOVE your driving videos !

Do you speeded up 3x actually ?

I don't remember if you're from that region !?
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  #1884  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2013, 2:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrAnKs View Post
Sonysnob... I just LOVE your driving videos !

Do you speeded up 3x actually ?

I don't remember if you're from that region !?
Thanks. I think this was sped up 3x, either 3 or 3.5, it's been a while since I finished it. I don't have good internet at home so I can only upload when I am on the road.

I live in the northeast part of the GTA, so not exactly local to Ottawa, but not too far away either. I like to drive, so this is the type of thing I do during my down time. I am in southern Ohio right now.
     
     
  #1885  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2013, 11:20 AM
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Excellent video. 417 is going to be impressive indeed through there when it's done.
     
     
  #1886  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2013, 3:52 PM
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Are there plans to widen from the split to trim in the east anytime soon. The section between blair and jean darc has always been backed during rush hours
     
     
  #1887  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2013, 6:49 PM
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Stills overview of sonysnob's video. Google earth works too. The video opens in what passes for a major interchange in Ottawa. The 2nd photo shows his trip west but ends at the rink.


8041637 by southfacing, on Flickr


8041635 by southfacing, on Flickr




Quote:
Originally Posted by sonysnob View Post
New video of Hwy 417 through Kanata shot in June. Hwy 417 was being widened from four to six and eight lanes when this video was shot. Construction is to be completed next year.
     
     
  #1888  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2013, 5:22 PM
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Originally Posted by osirisboy View Post
Are there plans to widen from the split to trim in the east anytime soon. The section between blair and jean darc has always been backed during rush hours
That's under City of Ottawa jurisdiction, and there are no plans to widen it, partially due to inter-municipal warfare (the councillor for that area just wants to make life miserable for those who live outside the boundaries).
     
     
  #1889  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2013, 4:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonysnob View Post
New video of Hwy 417 through Kanata shot in June. Hwy 417 was being widened from four to six and eight lanes when this video was shot. Construction is to be completed next year.
Video Link
What a horrific waste of money.

8 lanes to/from Kanata, plus a ninth in the eastbound direction as a bus lane (the westbound bus lane - effectively a tenth lane - doubles in places as a shoulder, but the eastbound direction has a shoulder all the way). It's absurd to have that kind of capacity given that east of Hwy 416 the Queensway still only has 3 lanes per direction and won't ever get more than 4. So we get 4 lanes from Kanata plus 2 from Hwy 416 closing down onto 3 and eventually 4 lanes into downtown Ottawa. All this lane capacity for a suburb of barely 100k people. And Lord only knows why Hwy 416 has 2 lanes heading around most of the interchange towards Kanata - that was some pretty empty road 0:30-1:00.

As if to compound the waste, at some point a bus transitway is supposed to be built on the north side of the Queensway. That's two more lanes and two more shoulders of asphalt... "asphalt planet" indeed. God forbid that the City and the Ministry do some real planning by having built the transitway while dropping 2-4 lanes of what became the 8-10 lanes of the Queensway.

The Ministry of Transport even managed to find money to widen the bridges over the CN Beachburg subdivision (1:19) but could they find the money to save the railway line itself from abandonment? Well of course not. The rather misnamed Ministry of Transport only does cars and trucks, after all. Having let both the CP Chalk River/North Bay (after building another bridge over it in Arnprior, of course) and CN Beachburg subdivisions in the Ottawa Valley fall to ATVs and snowmobiles, all this new road built by the MoTO will only see an increase in truck traffic and further pressure to extend Hwy 417 along Hwy 17.
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  #1890  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2013, 5:30 AM
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How Hwy. 7 between KW and Guelph hasnt begun yet is mind boggling.... 700,000+ people connected by a two-lane highway. Bet ya cant find that anywhere else in Canada.
     
     
  #1891  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2013, 12:53 PM
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WEstern Canada is connected to Eastern Canada by the two-lane TCH through most of Northwestern Ontario and further points west. Downtown Vancouver has no freeway connection. London has no freeway through the city (unlike KW). The list goes on...
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  #1892  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2013, 3:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
What a horrific waste of money.

8 lanes to/from Kanata, plus a ninth in the eastbound direction as a bus lane (the westbound bus lane - effectively a tenth lane - doubles in places as a shoulder, but the eastbound direction has a shoulder all the way). It's absurd to have that kind of capacity given that east of Hwy 416 the Queensway still only has 3 lanes per direction and won't ever get more than 4. So we get 4 lanes from Kanata plus 2 from Hwy 416 closing down onto 3 and eventually 4 lanes into downtown Ottawa. All this lane capacity for a suburb of barely 100k people. And Lord only knows why Hwy 416 has 2 lanes heading around most of the interchange towards Kanata - that was some pretty empty road 0:30-1:00.

As if to compound the waste, at some point a bus transitway is supposed to be built on the north side of the Queensway. That's two more lanes and two more shoulders of asphalt... "asphalt planet" indeed. God forbid that the City and the Ministry do some real planning by having built the transitway while dropping 2-4 lanes of what became the 8-10 lanes of the Queensway.

The Ministry of Transport even managed to find money to widen the bridges over the CN Beachburg subdivision (1:19) but could they find the money to save the railway line itself from abandonment? Well of course not. The rather misnamed Ministry of Transport only does cars and trucks, after all. Having let both the CP Chalk River/North Bay (after building another bridge over it in Arnprior, of course) and CN Beachburg subdivisions in the Ottawa Valley fall to ATVs and snowmobiles, all this new road built by the MoTO will only see an increase in truck traffic and further pressure to extend Hwy 417 along Hwy 17.
Railways are federal jurisdiction, and due to the fact they would rather ship all their goods through Toronto, it left the Ottawa Valley abandoned. Can't blame the MTO at all there, blame Transport Canada and the railways themselves. Also traffic counts warrant 4 lanes well up the Ottawa Valley already, much farther than exists now.

The traffic counts in the Kanata section range from about 50,000 coming off Highway 7 to about 60,000 leaving Stittsville, 80,000 through Kanata and about 120,000 down the hill towards Bayshore. Those normally warrant 6 lanes of traffic from Highway 7 to Kanata and 8 lanes on the hill into Bayshore.

Also note that traffic volumes on Highway 417 in the urban part of Ottawa are only slowly increasing - if that (some sections steady or slight decline) - due to transit use to downtown and suburban job growth. It would be virtually impossible to widen the urban part of Highway 417 without massive community disruption.
     
     
  #1893  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2013, 3:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
Railways are federal jurisdiction, and due to the fact they would rather ship all their goods through Toronto, it left the Ottawa Valley abandoned. Can't blame the MTO at all there, blame Transport Canada and the railways themselves. .
I believe there is a provision in the federal legislation that does allow the provinces to "save" rail lines and acquire them for net salvage value.
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  #1894  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2013, 3:24 PM
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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_regulations_in_Canada

Railways are not all federal. It depends on a few things.
     
     
  #1895  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2013, 3:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post

The traffic counts in the Kanata section range from about 50,000 coming off Highway 7 to about 60,000 leaving Stittsville, 80,000 through Kanata and about 120,000 down the hill towards Bayshore. Those normally warrant 6 lanes of traffic from Highway 7 to Kanata and 8 lanes on the hill into Bayshore.
This does not appear to be the case if you look here:

http://www.raqsb.mto.gov.on.ca/techpubs/TrafficVolumes.nsf/tvweb?OpenForm&Seq=1

The 120,000 threshold is only reached when you combine the 417-416 traffic at Bayshore.

Coming in from Kanata at Terry Fox, Eagleson, Moodie, etc. it's all below 80,000.

I am not a traffic engineer and don't live in the area, and so won't comment on the money wasting issue, but it's true that when I do go there the 417 complex being constructed between Moodie and Kanata does appear MASSIVE when compared to highways coming into cities from similar suburban and exurban areas elsewhere.
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  #1896  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2013, 5:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
Railways are federal jurisdiction, and due to the fact they would rather ship all their goods through Toronto, it left the Ottawa Valley abandoned. Can't blame the MTO at all there, blame Transport Canada and the railways themselves. Also traffic counts warrant 4 lanes well up the Ottawa Valley already, much farther than exists now.
The fact that the railways in question are under federal jurisdiction (and not all are under federal jurisdiction) is irrelevant to the issue of whether the government of Ontario, through its supposed "Ministry of Transportation", should [have] intervene[d] to acquire the RoWs and their tracks (i.e. "railbanking").

One thing you have to understand is that the private railways have a limited time horizon (less than five years for the most part, and definitely less than ten) and they definitely don't consider the importance of their lines to the economic health of the regions through which they pass. And that's fine as far as it goes, but governments are supposed to be looking out decades into the future and have a more encompassing view of the role of railways and infrastructure generally. We basically don't see this with the feds - they've allowed CFB Petawawa to be cut off from rail access, after all - and we don't see it all with the Province of Ontario. Quebec is somewhat better, but even they haven't intervened too heavily, perhaps due to the tangled issue of a cross-border line when Ontario shows no interest in intervening. The municipalities are often the ones who see the problem but their finances often don't permit them to intervene (except in this case for the City of Ottawa, which could have bought both lines clear to Mattawa for less than the cost of its average transitway project).

A railway line can be "uneconomic" from the point of view of CN or CP in the sense that they don't make financial sense (and even here much of the time that is really to say "not profitable enough" as opposed to a line actually losing money on operations), but that same line may be necessary for a bunch of other industries in the area that actually make the line "economic" in the aggregate (i.e. the value of the related economic activity exceeds the cost of operating the line). We understand this concept for roads quite well and even airports and ports, but for railways we've got this idea stuck in our heads that they should be self-contained businesses encompassing everything from infrastructure to rolling stock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I believe there is a provision in the federal legislation that does allow the provinces to "save" rail lines and acquire them for net salvage value.
Indeed there is. And the municipalities and transit agencies have the same option, which every now and then actually is exercised.

GO Transit, for instance, has exercised that option a few times and it even rail banked the line to Barrie for years before upgrading it for commuter rail service.
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  #1897  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2013, 5:48 PM
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another example is GO owning the tracks to Uxbridge on the Stouffville line/Uxbridge sub, but only operating GO trains to Stouffville. Go used the option when CN moved to abandon it after the last factory using the line switched to truck based delivery.
     
     
  #1898  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2013, 2:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
The fact that the railways in question are under federal jurisdiction (and not all are under federal jurisdiction) is irrelevant to the issue of whether the government of Ontario, through its supposed "Ministry of Transportation", should [have] intervene[d] to acquire the RoWs and their tracks (i.e. "railbanking").

One thing you have to understand is that the private railways have a limited time horizon (less than five years for the most part, and definitely less than ten) and they definitely don't consider the importance of their lines to the economic health of the regions through which they pass. And that's fine as far as it goes, but governments are supposed to be looking out decades into the future and have a more encompassing view of the role of railways and infrastructure generally. We basically don't see this with the feds - they've allowed CFB Petawawa to be cut off from rail access, after all - and we don't see it all with the Province of Ontario. Quebec is somewhat better, but even they haven't intervened too heavily, perhaps due to the tangled issue of a cross-border line when Ontario shows no interest in intervening. The municipalities are often the ones who see the problem but their finances often don't permit them to intervene (except in this case for the City of Ottawa, which could have bought both lines clear to Mattawa for less than the cost of its average transitway project).

A railway line can be "uneconomic" from the point of view of CN or CP in the sense that they don't make financial sense (and even here much of the time that is really to say "not profitable enough" as opposed to a line actually losing money on operations), but that same line may be necessary for a bunch of other industries in the area that actually make the line "economic" in the aggregate (i.e. the value of the related economic activity exceeds the cost of operating the line). We understand this concept for roads quite well and even airports and ports, but for railways we've got this idea stuck in our heads that they should be self-contained businesses encompassing everything from infrastructure to rolling stock.



Indeed there is. And the municipalities and transit agencies have the same option, which every now and then actually is exercised.

GO Transit, for instance, has exercised that option a few times and it even rail banked the line to Barrie for years before upgrading it for commuter rail service.
The railway era is over in North America. The railway industry has been in decline for the past century, and hundreds if not thousands of kilometres of railways have been removed across the province. This will not be the last mainline to be abandoned, though this one is higher profile than most as there aren't any nearby railways to pick up the slack.

Few industries require rail service to move their product. These industries generally include chemical or petroleum refineries, or bulk materials such as coal or ore. I am not an expert on the area, but I don't think there are any large scale refineries or mines in the upper Ottawa Valley that would require such a rail line. None of the communities in the Upper Ottawa Valley are large enough to make passenger service economical.

This isn't even the first transcontinental railway to be abandoned. The Northern Route was severed west of Calstock decades ago. More recently, the connection between CN's mainline north of Lake Nipigon and CP's Shoreline route via the Nipigon River was removed.

I lament the loss of CP's historic mainline given its history, but railways are a dying breed, and government intervention to save a rural railway without a customer base to support a short-line is a waste of money.

Plus, the future is in tubes:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100955989

Last edited by sonysnob; Aug 15, 2013 at 3:04 AM.
     
     
  #1899  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2013, 3:58 PM
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For Highway 17 in northern Ontario, I would divide them into 4 priorities:

Priority 1 - Overdue for expansion on traffic counts

Priority 2 - Would likely be warranted in the next 15-25 years or so (i.e. the short to medium-term planning horizon)

Priority 3 - Not necessary in the planning timeframe but would be valuable from a long-term regional operational perspective

Priority 4 - Not likely to be necessary in any horizon, would be mainly for a national/international operational perspective

Priority 1 sections (those with AADT near or over 10,000 for most of their length):
* Arnprior to west of Petawawa
* East of North Bay to Sturgeon Falls
* Markstay to east of Webbwood
* Thunder Bay area (interchanges)

Priority 2 sections (those with AADT at least 5,000, or lower but with no alternate routes):
* West of Mattawa to east of North Bay
* Sturgeon Falls to Markstay
* East of Webbwood to west of Massey
* Thessalon to Searchmont
* Nipigon to Shabaqua Corners
* Dryden area and bypass
* East of Kenora (Highway 71) to Manitoba border

Priority 3 sections:
* Deep River to west of Mattawa
* West of Massey to Thessalon
* Highway 72 to Highway 71, excluding the Dryden area

Priority 4 sections:
* Searchmont to Nipigon
* Shabaqua Corners to Highway 71
     
     
  #1900  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2013, 11:54 PM
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I know it isn't Canada, but it's Worth watching !

Especially between 2:00 to 4:00 ... I'm just like

Try HD and/or full screen for better results !

Video Link


I like the waves & curves on US expressways ! .... remind me of a Roller-coaster ride
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