Regina | New Mosaic Stadium

[Le-TanK-]

Sooooooo

any news on the stadium?

[wacko]

Just to be sure: has the province actually committed to the funding it will provide for the stadium project ($80 million grant, plus $100 million loan to the City of Regina)? I know there was a Memorandum of Understanding signed last year, but is that considered contractually binding?

In any case, I think it's likely the stadium will go ahead, and any decline in provincial potash revenues will be reflected in a decrease in funding for future provincial projects. I doubt Premier Wall wants to go too deeply into a deficit position; the budget this spring was already fairly tight.

[prairieguy]

Having watched a few games from Winnipeg's new stadium, I really think we should be able to build something for far less money then what has been proposed. Winnipeg's facility looks fantastic and sounds like it has created a great atmosphere for football! We need to revisit our intentions on our stadium and look to model it off of what Winnipeg has achieved and save some cash at the same time!

[Stormer]

Originally Posted by prairieguy

Having watched a few games from Winnipeg's new stadium, I really think we should be able to build something for far less money then what has been proposed. Winnipeg's facility looks fantastic and sounds like it has created a great atmosphere for football! We need to revisit our intentions on our stadium and look to model it off of what Winnipeg has achieved and save some cash at the same time!

IMO we must go big or go home. IGF is great, but unless we get something substantially better, I could live with Mosaic for another 10 years. Regarding re-doing the financial model, that ship has sailed. The $278 million not including land (which is already owned by the City) is in place and is set in stone.

[SkydivePilot]

Originally Posted by prairieguy

Having watched a few games from Winnipeg's new stadium, I really think we should be able to build something for far less money then what has been proposed. Winnipeg's facility looks fantastic and sounds like it has created a great atmosphere for football! We need to revisit our intentions on our stadium and look to model it off of what Winnipeg has achieved and save some cash at the same time!

The stadium is going full-steam ahead. (Even though NDP people would still love to see it fail.)

[Le-TanK-]

lmao NDP lmao

[Festivus]

Originally Posted by SkydivePilot

The stadium is going full-steam ahead. (Even though NDP people would still love to see it fail.)

I don't think this is a partisan issue, and we shouldn't bring partisan politics into it.

[Treesplease]

Originally Posted by Stormer

IMO we must go big or go home. IGF is great, but unless we get something substantially better, I could live with Mosaic for another 10 years. Regarding re-doing the financial model, that ship has sailed. The $278 million not including land (which is already owned by the City) is in place and is set in stone.

I agree - do it right or wait until you can do it right. I think the rational Winnipeg people would be the first ones to say they have cut corners that they would have prefered not to have cut. We will have to live with this for a long time - do it right.

[wacko]

Originally Posted by Treesplease

I agree - do it right or wait until you can do it right.

There would be a danger in waiting too long, as Mosaic Stadium would continue to deteriorate without substantial money ($100 million+) being put into renovations. Even then, the renovations would only defer a stadium replacement decision for another 10-15 years.

I don't know what the situation in Winnipeg was, whether Canad Inns Stadium could have continued to serve for another decade as it was, or whether money would've been needed for serious renovations if the stadium was not replaced right away.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Treesplease

I agree - do it right or wait until you can do it right. I think the rational Winnipeg people would be the first ones to say they have cut corners that they would have prefered not to have cut. We will have to live with this for a long time - do it right.

Winnipeg is not a city known for palatial sports complexes... Winnipeg Stadium and Winnipeg Arena were very barebones, and even the MTS Centre is pretty basic by NHL arena standards. But as for IGF, I think you'd have a hard time finding cut corners that actually impact the fan experience.

The stuff that has been cited is the kind of thing that is behind the scenes stuff, like the apparent issue with vents on the upper deck concourse and some other minor mechanical things. Even the unenclosed press box (which is a bit of a head scratcher) doesn't have an impact on the fan experience and is easily fixed without great expense.

The main attractions, like bowl seating, generous legroom, huge video screens, massive roof and the like all made it into the final version of the stadium plan.

Sometimes you've got to take the bird in the hand. As much as I've slammed Hamilton, their new building is preferable to staying at Ivor Wynne Stadium. In Winnipeg's case, I have no doubt that CanadInns could have been made to last another decade, but it was so far behind the times that the Bombers were losing out on huge revenue-producing opportunities by staying in there. It probably made more sense to go ahead with IGF than to wait until the stars aligned for a perfect Cowboys Stadium-like palace.

[Stormer]

Originally Posted by wacko

There would be a danger in waiting too long, as Mosaic Stadium would continue to deteriorate without substantial money ($100 million+) being put into renovations. Even then, the renovations would only defer a stadium replacement decision for another 10-15 years.

I don't know what the situation in Winnipeg was, whether Canad Inns Stadium could have continued to serve for another decade as it was, or whether money would've been needed for serious renovations if the stadium was not replaced right away.

I think the money they just spent last year on the Grey Cup Legacy project, (seating, boxes, video screens) with just a few million more for new rest rooms and concession renos would easily do us for 10 more years without the phony $100 million that has always been tossed about.

Still I support $278 million for a state of the art stadium, especially since a huge chunk of the cash is coming form users.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Stormer

I think the money they just spent last year on the Grey Cup Legacy project, (seating, boxes, video screens) with just a few million more for new rest rooms and concession renos would easily do us for 10 more years without the phony $100 million that has always been tossed about.

Still I support $278 million for a state of the art stadium, especially since a huge chunk of the cash is coming form users.

As a regular attendee on the East Side, I really don't think the $100 mill was that far off.

[wacko]

Total capital costs for the Grey Cup Legacy Project are listed as being $15.3 million. I don't know how much it would cost to bring the Mosaic Stadium restrooms up to code (and whether other elements would need to also be brought up to code before occupancy could be certified).

But yes, a new stadium does seem to be the best option, so long as we don't let costs run away on us (something which seems to occur all too frequently on such large projects).

[Davidson]

For some reason, I have an uneasy feeling about the sewage (sorry, "waste water") treatment plan referendum and the future of the city's portion of the stadium funding. If the referendum goes No to the P3, the feds pull their funding. Where does the city come up with that $58M portion? Do they raise taxes? Do they hit the debt ceiling, thus putting their portion of the stadium funding in jeopardy?

Or am I just being paranoid?

[osmo]

Originally Posted by Nathan

I think even with the new deal, the TV revenues will only make up about 25% of revenue for most teams. For the Riders, probably somewhere around 10%. The CFL, although on firmer ground, is still much more reliant on gate revenues than the NFL.

This is very much true. The CFL is still a gate league, this is why teams in the West are doing much better than teams out east. By the TV money logic Montreal should be the richest team in the league since they get both French and English broadcast money.

The CFL is nowhere close to hockey numbers. People are saying that go the next round of TV talks for Canadian TV stations might be over paying. I believe it will be 100 million in total the NHL will get from Canadian broadcasters. There is no way in hell the CFL is going to get 100 million from TSN, Bell would just buy the whole league for that much and run it itself if it costs that much for TV rights.

The Riders, the prized stallion in the CFL made 34 Million last year (around 2 million in profit), the Green Bay packers whom are the only NFL team that makes public their books made 300 million in revenue (40 million in profit).

I think TV peaks in Canada quicker then in America, while up here we have advantages to make more money in the actual stadiums. The NFL has priced out too many fans and has capped out the revenue streams of thier new facilities. Canada will never have as many folks watch FNF as HNIC, but overall the CFL has more ability for growth IMO as crazy it sounds vs the large scope of the NFL. But where else can the NFL expand too? How much more lucrative can it get on television? LA of course, but that is a one time cash-bomb and after that your out of luck. Football is static, you can't add to many games, and it's banned by law to play on lucrative days like Fridays and to an extent Saturdays. CFL can play games whenever and has actual markets it can grow into long term.

[Dillweed]

Originally Posted by osmo

This is very much true. The CFL is still a gate league, this is why teams in the West are doing much better than teams out east. By the TV money logic Montreal should be the richest team in the league since they get both French and English broadcast money.

The CFL is nowhere close to hockey numbers. People are saying that go the next round of TV talks for Canadian TV stations might be over paying. I believe it will be 100 million in total the NHL will get from Canadian broadcasters. There is no way in hell the CFL is going to get 100 million from TSN, Bell would just buy the whole league for that much and run it itself if it costs that much for TV rights.

The Riders, the prized stallion in the CFL made 34 Million last year (around 2 million in profit), the Green Bay packers whom are the only NFL team that makes public their books made 300 million in revenue (40 million in profit).

I think TV peaks in Canada quicker then in America, while up here we have advantages to make more money in the actual stadiums. The NFL has priced out too many fans and has capped out the revenue streams of thier new facilities. Canada will never have as many folks watch FNF as HNIC, but overall the CFL has more ability for growth IMO as crazy it sounds vs the large scope of the NFL. But where else can the NFL expand too? How much more lucrative can it get on television? LA of course, but that is a one time cash-bomb and after that your out of luck. Football is static, you can't add to many games, and it's banned by law to play on lucrative days like Fridays and to an extent Saturdays. CFL can play games whenever and has actual markets it can grow into long term.

Well guys I'm gonna respectfully agree & disagree with you on this. Yes the gate is a significant source of income for CFL teams and will continue to be in the future even after the new TV starts off in 2014. But there is a difference in the type of revenue the teams receive and will receive from the broadcast rights. And what the teams earn from the gate & concessions.

For one the broadcast revenue could actually be classified as net income since the teams don't spend anything to get it. They more or less just wait for the cheque to roll in. While the revenue they receive from the gate and concessions comes with a cost since there is overhead to pay for this type of income.

Yes certainly even with the new TV deal for the CFL doe not compare to what other leagues receive like the NHL & NFL. But the new deal will make the teams a little less reliant on what they make at the gate. So if we are talking net income here then I think you will see starting next year. The TV deal for most teams will account for well north of 50% of the income for most CFL teams. The Riders might be a little different story since they tend to have larger gates than some teams. And sell a lot of stuff compared to most others.

As for what the Green Bay Packers made last year. They actually made just over $50 million last year which was a record. But there was some one time occurrences last year that accounted for that. Like selling $63 million of a new issue of those worthless Packer shares that will never pay anyone a dividend.

Last year they made $17 million which is a little more in line with a typical year. And the year before that they only made $6 million. But what can you expect when your overhead is running around $250 million a year in expenses. You pretty much need that fat TV deal because with out it they and every other team in the NFL couldn't survive without it.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by Dillweed

Well guys I'm gonna respectfully agree & disagree with you on this. Yes the gate is a significant source of income for CFL teams and will continue to be in the future even after the new TV starts off in 2014. But there is a difference in the type of revenue the teams receive and will receive from the broadcast rights. And what the teams earn from the gate & concessions.

For one the broadcast revenue could actually be classified as net income since the teams don't spend anything to get it. They more or less just wait for the cheque to roll in. While the revenue they receive from the gate and concessions comes with a cost since there is overhead to pay for this type of income.

Yes certainly even with the new TV deal for the CFL doe not compare to what other leagues receive like the NHL & NFL. But the new deal will make the teams a little less reliant on what they make at the gate. So if we are talking net income here then I think you will see starting next year. The TV deal for most teams will account for well north of 50% of the income for most CFL teams. The Riders might be a little different story since they tend to have larger gates than some teams. And sell a lot of stuff compared to most others.

As for what the Green Bay Packers made last year. They actually made just over $50 million last year which was a record. But there was some one time occurrences last year that accounted for that. Like selling $63 million of a new issue of those worthless Packer shares that will never pay anyone a dividend.

Last year they made $17 million which is a little more in line with a typical year. And the year before that they only made $6 million. But what can you expect when your overhead is running around $250 million a year in expenses. You pretty much need that fat TV deal because with out it they and every other team in the NFL couldn't survive without it.

Well the Packers get picked apart because they are the only books one can look at from the NFL. Since they are a healthy and storied franchise people use it as a barometer of how the rest of the teams are doing.

They made 42$ Million in 2011 profit, not 17$ million.

If TV was as lucrative as your saying for the CFL then Hamilton and Toronto would not be the greyspots they are. Toronto ownership is doing great right now at the moment since by the luck of the gods David Braley got two Grey Cup wins while hosting back to back (supposedly he made like 15-20million off both??) , but aside from that fluke if TV money was just a easy fat cheque then their would be a line-up out the door for people to own both teams long term.

In the MLS for example they have a extremely beneficial TV deal which grants the league, and by extension the teams some fat cheques. The league has figured out how to turn a profit and thus every team and owner makes some cash. People line up to get into the MLS because its a fool proof venture if your a soccer fan. The CFL gets more money for its rights then the MLS right now but the MLS has a profit-model that spins it into profits for all their teams.

This isn't the reality in the league, as the CFL is still driven by older models of gate, sponsorships, and product. The Riders trump all from the product and gate revenues they bring in that far exceed the rest. If TV and that pie was so good Toronto and Hamilton would not be the duds they currently are.

Right now if you split up 30-40$ Million which is what TSN is supposedly paying, among 8 teams its $3-5 million, that doesn't even keep the lights on for the Riders. Its good money, but lets contrast that to what they make off the gate: 11.8 Million (2011), and Merchandise: $7 Million (2011) which is substantially more. Grey Cups are the prized horse which flood CFL cities with cash but that isn't every year of course. TV is a small part of the overall pie, teams still need to bring in revenues in more traditional ways through sponsorships, gate, and product sales. It can't be leaned on up here in Canada like in the USA. There just isn't enough viewership to attain long term. The CFL will never get Hockey numbers, nothing else in Canada will ever get Hockey numbers so the idea the CFL will pull in 1$00 million someday is a pipe-dream. But, you can still draw 25-55K a game, and you can still charge those ticket holders a hefty price if your team is good. The CFL sees way more opportunity with this with the new Stadium renewal that is going on, while down in the USA the NFL is struggling with gate for many teams - which also affects thier TV situations in some markets due to blackouts. The NFL is a TV league 100% - the CFL is still a gate league 100%.

This is why I point that the CFL has more upside. While the NFL struggles to get people of their couches into the Stadiums the CFL has a chance now to have a shift where people are going to start coming back to the park to watch these games live.

[Dillweed]

Originally Posted by osmo

Well the Packers get picked apart because they are the only books one can look at from the NFL. Since they are a healthy and storied franchise people use it as a barometer of how the rest of the teams are doing.

They made 42$ Million in 2011 profit, not 17$ million.

If TV was as lucrative as your saying for the CFL then Hamilton and Toronto would not be the greyspots they are. Toronto ownership is doing great right now at the moment since by the luck of the gods David Braley got two Grey Cup wins while hosting back to back (supposedly he made like 15-20million off both??) , but aside from that fluke if TV money was just a easy fat cheque then their would be a line-up out the door for people to own both teams long term.

In the MLS for example they have a extremely beneficial TV deal which grants the league, and by extension the teams some fat cheques. The league has figured out how to turn a profit and thus every team and owner makes some cash. People line up to get into the MLS because its a fool proof venture if your a soccer fan. The CFL gets more money for its rights then the MLS right now but the MLS has a profit-model that spins it into profits for all their teams.

This isn't the reality in the league, as the CFL is still driven by older models of gate, sponsorships, and product. The Riders trump all from the product and gate revenues they bring in that far exceed the rest. If TV and that pie was so good Toronto and Hamilton would not be the duds they currently are.

Right now if you split up 30-40$ Million which is what TSN is supposedly paying, among 8 teams its $3-5 million, that doesn't even keep the lights on for the Riders. Its good money, but lets contrast that to what they make off the gate: 11.8 Million (2011), and Merchandise: $7 Million (2011) which is substantially more. Grey Cups are the prized horse which flood CFL cities with cash but that isn't every year of course. TV is a small part of the overall pie, teams still need to bring in revenues in more traditional ways through sponsorships, gate, and product sales. It can't be leaned on up here in Canada like in the USA. There just isn't enough viewership to attain long term. The CFL will never get Hockey numbers, nothing else in Canada will ever get Hockey numbers so the idea the CFL will pull in 1$00 million someday is a pipe-dream. But, you can still draw 25-55K a game, and you can still charge those ticket holders a hefty price if your team is good. The CFL sees way more opportunity with this with the new Stadium renewal that is going on, while down in the USA the NFL is struggling with gate for many teams - which also affects thier TV situations in some markets due to blackouts. The NFL is a TV league 100% - the CFL is still a gate league 100%.

This is why I point that the CFL has more upside. While the NFL struggles to get people of their couches into the Stadiums the CFL has a chance now to have a shift where people are going to start coming back to the park to watch these games live.

"They made 42$ Million in 2011 profit, not 17$ million."

Yeah like I said. The Packers report on a fiscal year end that ends on March 31. Not a calendar year end like many companies do. So for the last year they reported which is their fiscal 2011/2012 - They reported a net income of $42.7 million and profit of $54 million.

For the year end 2010/2011 - Net Income of - $17.1 million

For the year end 2009/2010 - Net income of - $9.8 million

And I think I was clear in my initial posting that the new broadcast deal with TSN doesn't start till 2014. So the teams for this season are still operating under the old deal.

And I was hardly suggesting that the new deal is lucrative. But it's a substantial improvement over the old one. Which means, as the point I was making, will enable all teams to be a "little less reliant" on their gate revenue. And as I also eluded to in my initial post the Roughriders maybe a different story.

As for MLS, according to my information the total broadcast rights amongst all the US networks ie. NBC, ESPN etc. Works out to $27 million a year and these are all US networks. Split amongst 19 teams, I hardly think that amounts to some "fat" cheques for each team. And from what I understand the TV ratings for MLS in the U.S. are no big deal, so that's probably not going to get much better any time soon. Contrast that to what NBC is willing to pay for the broadcast rights to English Premiere League Soccer which is $250 million. Compared to $30 million on a three year deal for MLS.

And I wouldn't go so far to suggest that people are lining up as you say to go to MLS games. Like any league some teams do better than others but according to MLS's own numbers. The average attendance for a MLS game last year was 18,800. And so far this year their numbers are down.

[Dougler306]

Demolition begins to make way for new stadium. Heritage building is gone and the 2 other buildings will follow suit quickly. Also hundseth was working at evraz place today, putting power lines below the ground i believe. Progress is Progress

http://globalnews.ca/news/782980/demolition-begins-to-make-way-for-new-stadium/

[Stormer]

demo at stadium site: