Calgary recycles

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by Design-mind

Agreed Calgary needs to promote the positive aspects of this program. Keeping extra garbage from a landfill pays off in the long run as new landfills are very costly and causes a lot of problems when finding a location (NIMBY's). But then again who would want everyones garbage in their backyard. Yes calgary needs to promote this rather then let media steer it.

Are they as expensive as this new composting facility?

[Deepstar]

I like the idea of the green bin, if anything because I have too much green waste for the one black bin that I have.

[Deepstar]

Originally Posted by MichaelS

Are they as expensive as this new composting facility?

I don't have any stats, but I would assume the new composting facility would be more expensive. In the other hand you will get re-usable soil out of the compost facility. Good soil isn't cheap.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

But really, are we running out of landfill space, and is composting much less expensive than incineration? I know communities south of Calgary have joined together to build an incinerator instead of building a new landfill.

I would be ok with an incinerator. Sweden incinerates a lot of their garbage and uses it for combined heat and power plants. They are now in fact importing a lot of garbage from Germany and other neighbouring countries because they are effectively at a negative balance for waste produced.

[kw5150]

The real question is: how do we get the nutrients back into the soil?

This is the only thing you need to sell people: The land is losing nutrients, we need to save the organic waste and put in back into the soil. The nutrients are lost forever when mixed into the chemical waste of a landfill.

End of story.

We need to do this and stop breaking the natural cycle of decomposition. I hear there are heads of lettuce in landfills that are virtually intact 5 years later because of being buried in litter. IT was a feature in a national geographic magazine from the 80's, back when there was raised awareness of the subject.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by kw5150

The real question is: how do we get the nutrients back into the soil?

This is the only thing you need to sell people: The land is losing nutrients, we need to save the organic waste and put in back into the soil. The nutrients are lost forever when mixed into the chemical waste of a landfill.

End of story.

We need to do this and stop breaking the natural cycle of decomposition. I hear there are heads of lettuce in landfills that are virtually intact 5 years later because of being buried in litter. IT was a feature in a national geographic magazine from the 80's, back when there was raised awareness of the subject.

Actually, organics are some of the most harmful materials that we landfill. Because of the way they are decomposed, most of the material is turned into methane which leaks from the landfill.

From what I understand, organics need to undergo both aerobic and anaerobic digestion to be fully decomposed, and in a landfill, only anaerobic digestion occurs. It is anaerobic digestion that results in methane production, which is why landfills leak methane. Methane is a very potent greenhouse gas. So if organics are separated, treated with sewage and put into specialized anaerobic digestors that are filled with specialized methanogenic (methane producing) bacteria, they can be converted very efficiently into methane, which can be captured. The methane is then burned to produce electricity in a combined heat and power plant. The emissions from the plant are actually a negative loss of Greenhouse gases because the methane would have entered the atmosphere anyway, and converting it into C02 reduces its greenhouse effect drastically.

Additionally, we landfill, we have to do a considerable amount of work to contain harmful organic and inorganic compounds anyways. As well, we have to deal with the methane leakage. A landfill is nothing but cost. But when we digest the organics, we turn that cost into a profit. Waste becomes a resource.

[kw5150]

So, what you are saying is that it is a little more scientific than just "throwin it all in one big bin."

Originally Posted by fusili

Actually, organics are some of the most harmful materials that we landfill. Because of the way they are decomposed, most of the material is turned into methane which leaks from the landfill.

From what I understand, organics need to undergo both aerobic and anaerobic digestion to be fully decomposed, and in a landfill, only anaerobic digestion occurs. It is anaerobic digestion that results in methane production, which is why landfills leak methane. Methane is a very potent greenhouse gas. So if organics are separated, treated with sewage and put into specialized anaerobic digestors that are filled with specialized methanogenic (methane producing) bacteria, they can be converted very efficiently into methane, which can be captured. The methane is then burned to produce electricity in a combined heat and power plant. The emissions from the plant are actually a negative loss of Greenhouse gases because the methane would have entered the atmosphere anyway, and converting it into C02 reduces its greenhouse effect drastically.

Additionally, we landfill, we have to do a considerable amount of work to contain harmful organic and inorganic compounds anyways. As well, we have to deal with the methane leakage. A landfill is nothing but cost. But when we digest the organics, we turn that cost into a profit. Waste becomes a resource.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by kw5150

So, what you are saying is that it is a little more scientific than just "throwin it all in one big bin."

Exactly. With household waste, we should be separating recyclables for reuse (plastics, metals, etc), organics for digestion and energy production, and construction and demolition waste for various recycling programs. Most waste is actually pretty useful stuff, as long as you separate it and treat each waste stream properly.

In parts of Sweden, all household garbage bags are clear. If you put organics or recyclables in your garbage bag, not only will they not pick it up, they will knock on your door and teach you about how to separate your waste. The result is that Sweden powers 20% of its district energy from waste, and now has to import garbage from Norway because its garbage incineration programs are so successful.

[hulkrogan]

I just wish they would have planned this all out before doling out massive black bins.

3 massive bins for waste is nuts, and any alley behind a 4-plex with parking stalls is already a mess.

I wish we had the Toronto system where you pay a smaller fee if you use a smaller garbage bin. Once there is a green bin I don't think my black bin will ever make it over 1/4 full.

[freeweed]

2 comments as a suburbanite, based on what I see in newer areas in Calgary:

1. Three bins won't fit. It's already a challenge to try to cram 2 bins into the tiny bit of frontspace between driveways, on a 35' lot. In newer areas this is a non-starter and I doubt more than 10% of people will bother with the 3rd bin. Mostly because:

2. What the heck kind of organic waste am I supposed to be generating from my yard with a 6' tree that won't be producing much for 20+ years, and the few shrubs and bushes I've put in? Yeah, the 10 leaves that land every October sure are filling our landfills. Grass clippings? People should be required by law to mulch and leave on the lawn, if we're worried about the environmental impact. It does far more to help the environment by dramatically reducing water loss than any composting program. So what does that leave? A few egg shells and potato peels each week? Does the average Calgarian just throw out a lot more food than I do?

It just seems kinda silly in the newer parts of Calgary. Obviously the Mount Royals and such generate HUGE amounts of leaf litter, branches, etc. But that's just not something that will be a concern for me, for... well, decades.

[bigcanuck]

Originally Posted by freeweed

2 comments as a suburbanite, based on what I see in newer areas in Calgary:

1. Three bins won't fit. It's already a challenge to try to cram 2 bins into the tiny bit of frontspace between driveways, on a 35' lot. In newer areas this is a non-starter and I doubt more than 10% of people will bother with the 3rd bin. Mostly because:

2. What the heck kind of organic waste am I supposed to be generating from my yard with a 6' tree that won't be producing much for 20+ years, and the few shrubs and bushes I've put in? Yeah, the 10 leaves that land every October sure are filling our landfills. Grass clippings? People should be required by law to mulch and leave on the lawn, if we're worried about the environmental impact. It does far more to help the environment by dramatically reducing water loss than any composting program. So what does that leave? A few egg shells and potato peels each week? Does the average Calgarian just throw out a lot more food than I do?

It just seems kinda silly in the newer parts of Calgary. Obviously the Mount Royals and such generate HUGE amounts of leaf litter, branches, etc. But that's just not something that will be a concern for me, for... well, decades.

I live in one of the pilot communities and I'll add a few things to your comments.

1) The 3 bins don't all go out on the same day and with the same frequency. Green and blue go out on the same day every week (ie. Tuesday). Black goes out on a different day every second week. The large size of the black bin is beneficial since it is only picked up every 2nd week.

2) It's amazing how fast the green bin does fill up with household waste alone. It's not just egg shells and potato peels but lots of other things like bones, paper towels/napkins, cores/peels, fish/chicken skin, etc. And of course simple uneaten food (though we have 2 young kids so our waste is likely much higher than a household without small kids). Our outdoor waste is minimal except for early spring and early fall but we do still throw things like plucked dandelions, deadheaded flowers, broken branches in throughout the summer.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

I just wish they would have planned this all out before doling out massive black bins.

3 massive bins for waste is nuts, and any alley behind a 4-plex with parking stalls is already a mess.

I wish we had the Toronto system where you pay a smaller fee if you use a smaller garbage bin. Once there is a green bin I don't think my black bin will ever make it over 1/4 full.

Originally Posted by freeweed

2 comments as a suburbanite, based on what I see in newer areas in Calgary:

1. Three bins won't fit. It's already a challenge to try to cram 2 bins into the tiny bit of frontspace between driveways, on a 35' lot. In newer areas this is a non-starter and I doubt more than 10% of people will bother with the 3rd bin. Mostly because:

2. What the heck kind of organic waste am I supposed to be generating from my yard with a 6' tree that won't be producing much for 20+ years, and the few shrubs and bushes I've put in? Yeah, the 10 leaves that land every October sure are filling our landfills. Grass clippings? People should be required by law to mulch and leave on the lawn, if we're worried about the environmental impact. It does far more to help the environment by dramatically reducing water loss than any composting program. So what does that leave? A few egg shells and potato peels each week? Does the average Calgarian just throw out a lot more food than I do?

It just seems kinda silly in the newer parts of Calgary. Obviously the Mount Royals and such generate HUGE amounts of leaf litter, branches, etc. But that's just not something that will be a concern for me, for... well, decades.

Completely agree. One minor point however is that I believe the City would alternate collection of waste and organics weekly. In other words you garbage goes out one week, the organics the next so you will only have 2 bins out at any given time.

That said, I'm still not sold on this idea. For one, as you both mention, where the hell are we supposed to put all these bins? My garage is already full and I sure as hell dont' like the sight of all these bins sitting outside in my front yard - although that apparently doesnt bother a lot of my neighbors. Secondly I am now going to be forced to pay for a service that I do not need, want, or use. All my yard organics get composted already and the garbage disposal takes care of all the food waste. So now I will have a green bin sitting someone ion my yard/garage that I will pay $8/month or whatever it is going to be not to use.

And the whole cost thing floors me. How does the City not know what this program is going to cost and what the net benefit will be? Edmonton has been running their facility for 13 years now, you would think someone could have picked up the phone and made a call up there to see a: how much collection costs, b: how much the facility cost to to build and run, and c: how much the City of Edmonton makes back in compost sales.

Composting, transit smart cards and fare collection, etc. etc. Calgary seems not to be capable of looking at others who are already doing things successfully and learning from it. We seem to want to reinvent the wheel on each and every thing.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

I just wish they would have planned this all out before doling out massive black bins.

3 massive bins for waste is nuts, and any alley behind a 4-plex with parking stalls is already a mess.

I wish we had the Toronto system where you pay a smaller fee if you use a smaller garbage bin. Once there is a green bin I don't think my black bin will ever make it over 1/4 full.

I think the bins should be weighed each pick up and you get a bill at the end of each month (service fee + weight surcharge). This way the people that barely fill them only pay for the minimum of service. If each bin had an RFID chip and each truck had a weight sensor and an RFID reader on the arm this would be fairly easy to implement. This would reduce the cost for the users that make minimal use of the bins, while still ensuring that the city recovers the cost of operating the waste division.

[bigcanuck]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

I think the bins should be weighed each pick up and you get a bill at the end of each month (service fee + weight surcharge). This way the people that barely fill them only pay for the minimum of service. If each bin had an RFID chip and each truck had a weight sensor and an RFID reader on the arm this would be fairly easy to implement. This would reduce the cost for the users that make minimal use of the bins, while still ensuring that the city recovers the cost of operating the waste division.

Until I do the midnight run to dump all of my trash in my neighbours bin...

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by bigcanuck

1) The 3 bins don't all go out on the same day and with the same frequency. Green and blue go out on the same day every week (ie. Tuesday). Black goes out on a different day every second week. The large size of the black bin is beneficial since it is only picked up every 2nd week.

Ah, yes, I'm feeling a bit stupid now. Not only did I hear about this, it's something I've advocated for for years now. I've almost never once filled up my black bin in any given week, and I think it's stupid that they collect them that often as it is. I've always thought alternating the weeks with the current system should work out for anyone but the most wasteful types.

2) It's amazing how fast the green bin does fill up with household waste alone. It's not just egg shells and potato peels but lots of other things like bones, paper towels/napkins, cores/peels, fish/chicken skin, etc. And of course simple uneaten food (though we have 2 young kids so our waste is likely much higher than a household without small kids). Our outdoor waste is minimal except for early spring and early fall but we do still throw things like plucked dandelions, deadheaded flowers, broken branches in throughout the summer.

Yeah, I also forget what life with kids is like sometimes. I just don't produce anywhere near the waste that the average person does. Part of it is that I consciously try to avoid obtaining the crap in the first place, but also - not having kids in the house certainly helps.

I'm still trying to figure out how to fill a bin though. Maybe in a month, if I tossed as much food waste as I actually eat. And yeah, I'm aware that they're smaller.

Agreed with lubicon, too. No idea where the hell I'll put this bin. 2 worked very nicely with my garage setup, and no way in hell will I leave them outside. That's just trashy (pun intended).

[bigcanuck]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Yeah, I also forget what life with kids is like sometimes. I just don't produce anywhere near the waste that the average person does. Part of it is that I consciously try to avoid obtaining the crap in the first place, but also - not having kids in the house certainly helps.

I'm still trying to figure out how to fill a bin though. Maybe in a month, if I tossed as much food waste as I actually eat. And yeah, I'm aware that they're smaller.

To be honest, we don't ever fill the green bin but the compostable bags don't hold the odor in - the bin gets a bit stinky if it's not emptied every week in the warm months.

[Ferreth]

Living in an older area, I get some extra organics in the spring and fall. I also compost. Frankly, I'd rather the city give me some specially marked garbage bags for the spring and fall and keep their stupid green bin, because I'm just going to throw the bin in a corner and never use it the rest of the year anyways.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by bigcanuck

To be honest, we don't ever fill the green bin but the compostable bags don't hold the odor in - the bin gets a bit stinky if it's not emptied every week in the warm months.

Hm. You're not exactly selling me on the concept.

[kw5150]

I think once people realize that the compost going into the landfill produces a missing link in the food chain, they will sign on. Potash only goes so far and I dont want all of our food in the future produced with it.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by kw5150

I think once people realize that the compost going into the landfill produces a missing link in the food chain, they will sign on. Potash only goes so far and I dont want all of our food in the future produced with it.

While I agree with and applaud your sentiment, I'm pretty sure we're not going to be fertilizing farmer's fields with this stuff. At least not in the amounts necessary to replace potash and such.

THAT issue is a much bigger kettle of fish to solve.