Regina | New Mosaic Stadium

[wacko]

Personally, I think the whole "roof-ready" thing is just political smoke to appease those who wanted a domed or retractible-roof stadium. The roof will never get built, and should never have been included as a requirement in the first place (because it introduces an unnecessary constraint for designers).

I also wonder with all these projects on the go (wastewater treatment plant, stadium, road upgrades, etc.), if we actually have sufficient money to fund all these, let alone to put a roof on the stadium. Sure, some of the money could come from the province, but as we've seen, natural resource revenues are quite volatile and the province is likely to barely break even this fiscal year (which admittedly is still better than other provinces which are drowning in deficit spending). I know the provincial government has increased its spending quite a bit from previous years; is this money being spent wisely, or is there waste that could be eliminated? Yeah, I'm getting off-topic now, so I'll just stop here.

[Nathan]

Yes... We know you're against this project...

[wacko]

I am not against the project, and have never been. We certainly do need a new stadium at some point within the next several years to replace aging Mosaic Stadium. But that has to be balanced with other, equally pressing needs for infrastructure investment related to growth. My view has always been that we need a new stadium which adequately meets our needs without spending money on costly extras. If there is a philanthropist out there who wants to step forward with an extra $200 million to make a retractible roof a reality, then great. However, until such time as that happens, taxpayers' money will need to be stretched to cover a variety of projects, and money should be spent wisely without overextending ourselves or placing too great a burden on current and future taxpayers. Does that make sense?

As for my budgetary complaints, I am worried more about the province's overall increases in spending in the last few years, than on its spending for this one particular project. Premier Wall said just today that the government needs to keep spending increases to under 4%, and that some difficult decisions had to be made but the budget will be balanced (article here). The City of Regina also has a lot to deal with as far as spending, and its case is not really helped by, for example, being 90% over budget in building City Square Plaza, or failing to account for inflation in planned upgrades to the wastewater treatment plant.

I don't know much about how the P3 process works, however city manager Brent Sjoberg stated that once a design proposal was accepted and approved by the City of Regina, the city would then be on the hook for any cost overruns related to any changes to the design requested by the city. If there are no changes and the stadium is built as per the proposal, then the onus would indeed be on the contractor (rather than the city) to make sure the project comes in under budget.

[bomberjet]

The fact that $180 million is only x percent of whatever really doesn't mean anything. It's still $180 million. If the money wasn't that big of a deal, that it wouldn't be an issue. It's A LOT of money. Doesn't matter what you budget is. Sounds like your province made some cuts to balance the budget, which is great! So seems that $180M could easily be spent elsewhere. That's how I see it.

Wacko's idea's about controlled, responsible spending makes too much sense. Winnipeg wanted a roof on their stadium, but nobody had half a billion to spend on it.

[Goldenant]

Well said Wacko

[osmo]

Generally Stadiums that "plan" to install a roof down the road never do. Down the road means you used 2013 technology for a plan that will be outdated and more costly whenever your thinking of going down that path. It always ends up costing more and in many cases costing more then the original Stadium. Look how much Montreal and Vancouver had to pay to change the "roofs" on their facilities.

[drumuser]

Originally Posted by wacko

however city manager Brent Sjoberg

Brent Sjoberg is not city manager. Glen Davis is. Just had to clear that up.

[mjpaul]

I still dont understand why Hamilton and Winnipeg (much larger populations) can build a stadiums for significantly less then Regina. The place will be used at capacity 10 times per year. Hamilton's stadium will cost a tad over 100 million.

I am surprised this hasn't been an issue.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by mjpaul

I still dont understand why Hamilton and Winnipeg (much larger populations) can build a stadiums for significantly less then Regina. The place will be used at capacity 10 times per year. Hamilton's stadium will cost a tad over 100 million.

I am surprised this hasn't been an issue.

Hamiltons capacity is 22.5k, ours is 33k+; second teir seating is much more expensive, which is where the extra comes into play in Regina. We are also covering the seats in ours, Hamilton isn't. Furthermore, the southern Ontario economy is in a bit of a depressed state, so labour costs would be lower. If you want a glorified high school bleacher stadium, Hamilton could be used as a model.

Also, I believe concrete costs in Regina are actually quite a bit higher than the norm (and this is why Safeway delayed their expansion for a couple months, to recalibrate these costs).

As for Winnipeg's, their budget was kind of all over the map and is well over what was originally estimated when the Asper's were involved. Its cost is now in the order of $200 million. Our stadium will have a bit of a higher max capacity, full covered seating, I think a few more suites, and will begin construction basically 3.5 years after Winnipeg started theirs. The labour market in Regina is also a bit tighter than Winnipeg's (although Winnipeg's is pretty tight too).

So given the above, $80 mill more than Winnipeg's $200 mill isn't all that outlandish. Comparing to Hamilton is apples to oranges.

[wacko]

Originally Posted by drumuser

Brent Sjoberg is not city manager. Glen Davis is. Just had to clear that up.

Thanks, I stand corrected. Brent Sjoberg is actually Deputy City Manager and Chief Financial Officer.

Originally Posted by mjpaul

Hamilton's stadium will cost a tad over 100 million.

Actually, the budgeted amount is $145.7 million, of which $119 million is construction costs and the remainder "soft costs" such as design, architectural, and contingency funds. Even then, there are complaints that the final design will not meet the City of Hamilton's own design standards which were published more than a year prior. I also agree that limiting seating to 22,500 is a bit of a head-scratcher; 25,000 would have been better.

The clusterf*** surrounding the funding and construction of Winnipeg's new stadium is one we should all learn from. At least Regina has been more transparent on that point thus far.

[dsmmace]

I wonder if there has been any word on who the final 4 contestants were narrowed down to?

[Coldrsx]

Article on this.

http://www.building.ca/issues/de.aspx

[Dillweed]

When are we going to see a final design for this thing? It's taking so long....c'mon your killing me!

[Baker58]

Originally Posted by Dillweed

When are we going to see a final design for this thing? It's taking so long....c'mon your killing me!

PROCUREMENT PROCESS STEPS
DATES
Issue RFQ January 30, 2013
Proponents’ Information Meeting February 20, 2013
Last Day for Proponents’ Questions March 21, 2013
Last Day for Issuance of Addenda March 28, 2013
RFQ Submission Deadline 2:00pm C.S.T., April 4, 2013
Interview Proponents (optional) April 23 to April 25, 2013
Notification of Prequalified Parties May 30, 2013
Issue RFP July 17, 2013

RFP will likely be a 6 month process and then they have to select a winner. The hole will likely be dug in the fall but you won't likely have a concrete design until Feb-Mar 2014

[jvj]

Originally Posted by jvj

This has been a little quiet...stuff is happening, but slowly...
A proponents information meeting was held last week for any parties from the design & construction community that have an interest in the RFQ process.
Some key dates were given, including a couple that I don't think had been published before.
April 4th - RFQ Submission
May 30th - Notification of succesful parties (3 firms)
July 17th - Official RFP is issued.
Dec. 9th - RFP closes.
Jan. 20th, 2014 - succesful Design-Build-Finance group is chosen.

Not a whole lot of other discussion, other than confirmation that work by utiliities and demolition work will be undertaken this summer and fall.

Thought I would repost this from February...
These dates were taken from the RFQ document.
Having said that, there is some talk that the May 30th date to narrow things down to 3 bidders may actually be moved up a week or two.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by jvj

Thought I would repost this from February...
These dates were taken from the RFQ document.
Having said that, there is some talk that the May 30th date to narrow things down to 3 bidders may actually be moved up a week or two.

So lets say construction starts fall (Oct) that's 2 years and 4 months for construction (first exhibition game is in early June 2017). Will that be enough for a project of that size?

[SkydivePilot]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

So lets say construction starts fall (Oct) that's 2 years and 4 months for construction (first exhibition game is in early June 2017). Will that be enough for a project of that size?

Last year, the media was saying that a completion date in 2017 would guarantee avoiding a similar situation that happened with the Bomber Stadium - which was forced to open a season late.

There are never really any guarantees with anything though.

[Crisis]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

So lets say construction starts fall (Oct) that's 2 years and 4 months for construction (first exhibition game is in early June 2017). Will that be enough for a project of that size?

Sorry to be a math nerd, by my calculations, October 2104 to June 2017 works out to 2 years and 8 months. Given a January 2014 award, an October 2014 start seems reasonable and should lead to a completed stadium for the 2017 season.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Crisis

Sorry to be a math nerd, by my calculations, October 2104 to June 2017 works out to 2 years and 8 months. Given a January 2014 award, an October 2014 start seems reasonable and should lead to a completed stadium for the 2017 season.

Like the penny I just rounded down!

[wacko]

Originally Posted by Crisis

Sorry to be a math nerd, by my calculations, October 2104 to June 2017 works out to 2 years and 8 months.

Looks more like 87 years and 4 months... and going backwards in time too.