Regina | New Mosaic Stadium

[Goldenant]

Originally Posted by Nathan

As long as we agree that the perceived value of $100 - 10 years from now (not to even mention 30) is going to be a fair bit less than today.

http://www.prairiedogmag.com/?p=52032

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Goldenant

http://www.prairiedogmag.com/?p=52032

So now that the CFL is on more stable ground than it's been on in decades, we are predicting its very near failure? Considering that the new media contract will be much higher than before, yes... very likely...

Also, it doesn't count the fact that Sask Sport will be renting space in the new stadium which will cover some maintenance costs... nor does it talk about how much it would cost to upgrade the current stadium and the maintenance costs that would be associated with maintaining any type of stadium (this is a cost that would have to be paid no matter what route is chosen, so using that as a "but we can't afford it" chip is kind of useless).

Further to that surcharge, the Roughriders currently collect an $8 surcharge that they have been using to make some improvements to the current stadium, but to also build some reserves, the new $12 surcharge will no longer go to them, it will be collected by them and then directly handed over to the city/province, so that is foregone income under this plan.

As to the city's income streams, if the Potash mine goes ahead, the city has a stream of income there to help cover the water treatment plant, which is also partially paid for through our water bills which are outside of our normal taxation.

We also will have the new development on the railyard that will create more city taxes that can help cover our debt costs, and as this is infill, the cost of "new services" for the businesses/residents that would go there is dramatically lower than a new subdivision at the outskirts of down would be.

If we are going to use all the very negative only slightly possible "what ifs", we need to do the same for the positive side.

The article presents some valid concerns, but it's also dripping with bias; looking at all his articles, he is very clearly against the stadium (as he has every right to be), but as a journalist, he should also check that at the door in his writing. His interview questions almost all lead with a negative, which is also not proper.

[Goldenant]

Your right, the whole league will die thing is quite far fetched. My main concern is with the way this project is funded, it is going to cost the city a lot more than what they are saying. Its a 278 million dollar project and the city is paying 160 million or so, reality is it is will be much more than that. My feeling is the riders and the province should be committing more.

As for the wastewater treatment plant...price just went up 75 million since may. How can the stadium not either increase in cost, or be significantly downgraded in terms of design/services. Ya, ya..i know inflation was factored into the stadium project and council has said there is no way it will go over budget. Curious why the wastewater treatment plant did not have inflation factored into it as well.

[Festivus]

Originally Posted by Goldenant

Your right, the whole league will die thing is quite far fetched. My main concern is with the way this project is funded, it is going to cost the city a lot more than what they are saying. Its a 278 million dollar project and the city is paying 160 million or so, reality is it is will be much more than that. My feeling is the riders and the province should be committing more.

As for the wastewater treatment plant...price just went up 75 million since may. How can the stadium not either increase in cost, or be significantly downgraded in terms of design/services. Ya, ya..i know inflation was factored into the stadium project and council has said there is no way it will go over budget. Curious why the wastewater treatment plant did not have inflation factored into it as well.

Only 3 things in life are certain: Death, taxes, and all government projects will go over budget.

[Dillweed]

Originally Posted by osmo

You wouldn't actually think the Riders would leave Sask?

It would never happen.

I am in support of the Stadium as is but I am well versed in this area. Regina taxpayers will get raped so might as well be disclosed to the numbers and have a honest dialogue about it. But Regina Taxpayers can blame the Province for handling it poorly and then dumping it on the City which has barley a 3rd of the resources to handle a project of this scope. You can still support the Riders and this Stadium but still be critical of the project. You will be raped at the Box office and via taxes for this project as this story has been told in many other Cities with the same result.

The Riders are non-profit but lets not get carried away and try to assume they are a publicly owned company whom gives out dividends or some sort. The good faith payments to minor ball is expected and warranted but lets not assume either that these are wide scope benefits. This isn't building Highways or funding Hospitals like a Crown is, nor is it a public service that offers benefits to all with equal access like a municipal Library or pool. The Riders are non-profit with open books. I don't like how people try to claim that the Rider are some public good, they are a corporation/business like anything other and the argument against paying for their profit generator (A stadium) is valid. If I want to fix cars and open a Auto Shop should taxpayers build me a garage? Its the exact same thing, anybody can have the choice of getting their car fixed by me for a price if they choose to, but everybody would have to foot the bill for the Garage/shop.

These Sports Stadiums are a bad deal for taxpayers so the best option should be taking with open books and dialogue on the subject. The biggest plus of this current facility is that it will loose less money the the dome would have - that's the best you can ask for really...

Osmo,

For someone who claims to be in support of this stadium you sure don't sound like it to me.

And I would disagree with this statement:

"I don't like how people try to claim that the Rider are some public good"

From what I have seen the I can't think of too many teams that draw more support from the community than the Roughriders. I would say that having a pro-sports team in Regina is definitely an asset to the city and the province.

And having a good multi-purpose stadium like what is being planned in Regina, not only for the Roughriders to play in but other venues as well. Will in time attract other venues to the city that they might not have been able to attract with out it. Such as more Grey Cups.

The thing to consider is that your Mosiac stadium is old and can only be renovated so often. It needs to be replaced and that comes with a cost. It's like fixing the roof on your house. When it leaks you patch it but every 25 years or so you have to replace it. Which will usually run you thousands of dollars.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Goldenant

Your right, the whole league will die thing is quite far fetched. My main concern is with the way this project is funded, it is going to cost the city a lot more than what they are saying. Its a 278 million dollar project and the city is paying 160 million or so, reality is it is will be much more than that. My feeling is the riders and the province should be committing more.

As for the wastewater treatment plant...price just went up 75 million since may. How can the stadium not either increase in cost, or be significantly downgraded in terms of design/services. Ya, ya..i know inflation was factored into the stadium project and council has said there is no way it will go over budget. Curious why the wastewater treatment plant did not have inflation factored into it as well.

Quit saying the city is paying for $160 mill. That's inaccurate, and basically something that Dawn Thomas or the like would try to proclaim to rally support for the anti-stadium crowd. The truth is more in the middle; you could say the city is getting loans for $160 mill, but $100 mill is being paid through the ticket surcharges and the city paying $60 mill. The assumptions behind which are that over 30 years as long as the average stadium capacity is 85%, it will be paid (I believe interest is to be partially covered by sponsorship and such). If attendance dive-bombs, then yes it becomes an issue, but it's also in the Riders best interest to ensure that doesn't happen, since their bottom line also divebombs.

And if you listened to the interviews from the city, a lot of your concerns would actually be alleviated.

Yes the Riders and Province have both come out and said that they won't be responsible for cost overruns, which would leave it in the city's lap... This is why the city is doing the project as a P3. As long as we choose a final design and don't make any changes at all, the contractor becomes responsible for cost overruns, so it's on them to make a proper estimate and to ensure they could do it for the price given. If the city were to come back after the agreement is struck and say... "hmmm... well we'd like to have another 5 meeting rooms in the stadium... what can we do?" That's when the contractor would say, sure, we could, but it will cost you $x more.

As for the wastewater treatment plant, yes like you said, they mentioned a while ago that the original estimate didn't have inflation applied to it (which the stadium did), and they knew it would be more, which is why they had to do another estimate. I believe it is also being done through a P3 process, so again, if designs are finalized and agreed upon, as long as the city isn't stupid and doesn't change things, we don't worry about cost overruns. We could also possibly access almost 60 mill in federal funding for the wastewater treatment plant, and maybe some provincial funding too. So we aren't going to be responsible for the full $250 mill.

As for why the treatment plant didn't get an inflation-adjusted estimate in the first place, your guess is as good as mine. Idiotic decision in any case. We should as a rule always be doing inflation adjusted estimates, which I think because of the wastewater plant, the city will probably do.

[Dalreg]

I will go on record right here right now with my educated guess at the final portion the city will pay when this thing is done and dusted....

After careful number crunching, crystal ball gazing and chicken bone readings....

The city will contribute $345,125,987.60. Directly to the stadium and infrastructure needed to build said stadium....

[jvj]

This has been a little quiet...stuff is happening, but slowly...
A proponents information meeting was held last week for any parties from the design & construction community that have an interest in the RFQ process.
Some key dates were given, including a couple that I don't think had been published before.
April 4th - RFQ Submission
May 30th - Notification of succesful parties (3 firms)
July 17th - Official RFP is issued.
Dec. 9th - RFP closes.
Jan. 20th, 2014 - succesful Design-Build-Finance group is chosen.

Not a whole lot of other discussion, other than confirmation that work by utiliities and demolition work will be undertaken this summer and fall.

[Rodo Regina Lover]

There was a tender in the Leader Post a few weeks back for site preparation for the new stadium.I think the closing date was Feb. 26th.

[boborider]

Originally Posted by jvj

This has been a little quiet...stuff is happening, but slowly...
A proponents information meeting was held last week for any parties from the design & construction community that have an interest in the RFQ process.
Some key dates were given, including a couple that I don't think had been published before.
April 4th - RFQ Submission
May 30th - Notification of succesful parties (3 firms)
July 17th - Official RFP is issued.
Dec. 9th - RFP closes.
Jan. 20th, 2014 - succesful Design-Build-Finance group is chosen.

Not a whole lot of other discussion, other than confirmation that work by utiliities and demolition work will be undertaken this summer and fall.

Just a thought, but I wonder what the value might be, as part of the RFP, to request that the proponents include an optional price for the inclusion of a retractable roof on the stadium, if the plan is to make the facility "'roof ready". It would give the city a reasonable idea of what the added cost might be for future planning. I am still a proponent of a year round facility. There was an article in the LP today regarding the CFL schedule. The schedule will be delayed this year, in part, because it is becoming more and more difficult to get dates in both the Rogers Centre and BC Place as they are competing for dates with an increasing number of events. I recognize we are not as big as TO or Vancouver, but neither are we building as big a facility. maybe there is sufficient activity to justify the expense.

If we are making it a roof ready facility, it would seem to me that the cost will never get cheaper, given the slow down in construction in most parts of Canada (other than Sask and Alta.) Major construction companies throughout the country might be interested as there may not be a lot of other projects to occupy them in other parts of the country. This might increase the bid competition and hence produce a more palatable price. Food for thought.

[Goldenant]

Looking on the RRI website says that the stadium is a P3, but in talking with the city they say nothing is finalised and that they are still looking at this funding model. Would this be true (for some reason my question mark quitworking).
Never mind... found it

http://regina.siretechnologies.com/sirep...ddqltg3olwyrmn/435900301201305594361.PDF

[SkydivePilot]

Here's one for you guys:

I was wondering about this for quite awhile now. (As perhaps many of you.) So, how many of you guys really believe that this facility will debut as an "open air-type" stadium?

I personally believe that it'll open as a retractable-roof facility right from the get-go. Here's why:

First of all, the province gave the project an $80-million-dollar grant insothat it be covered. That caveat is a given.

Second: If the facility were to debut as an open air concept, then a few years later to be covered; the stadium would need to be closed for a whole season in order to complete the required modifications and installation. Where will the Riders play [at home] during that season?

Third: During the modification phase, the project would require a minimum of two, 150-some-odd ton capacity cranes in order to lift the panels into place. ( . . . . and ergo, utterly destroying the underlying playing surface.

Fourth: And this is the most fascinating question here: How does one dispatch the aforementioned cranes into that "sealed" facility once it has already been completed? Hmmm.

[Mike328]

Originally Posted by SkydivePilot

.

Fourth: And this is the most fascinating question here: How does one dispatch the aforementioned cranes into that "sealed" facility once it has already been completed? Hmmm.

Crane in a crane!

But joking aside, you raise some very interesting points. Personally I still think it will open as an open-air stadium and just never get a roof, but you got me thinking.

[SkydivePilot]

Originally Posted by Mike328

Crane in a crane!

But joking aside, you raise some very interesting points. Personally I still think it will open as an open-air stadium and just never get a roof, but you got me thinking.

That's the best shot to describe the quandary as stated above. Awesome!!!

Being a former "crane" [12-ton BLH Austin-Western] operator, I couldn't help but finally mention that possible dilemma.

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by SkydivePilot

That's the best shot to describe the quandary as stated above. Awesome!!!

Being a former "crane" [12-ton BLH Austin-Western] operator, I couldn't help but finally mention that possible dilemma.

Well simple answer. Cranes do break down into pieces.... If you can drive a truck into the stadium then you can get crane components in....

[GORDBO]

I hope you folks in Sask. get it together and build the damn thing!
Here in Winnipeg, we went from a 40,000 seat covered stadium [10 years ago]. to a partialy covered 33,500 seater for about 60 mil. more.

[Shinook]

Originally Posted by GORDBO

I hope you folks in Sask. get it together and build the damn thing!
Here in Winnipeg, we went from a 40,000 seat covered stadium [10 years ago]. to a partialy covered 33,500 seater for about 60 mil. more.

We don't need a covered football stadium. We have the MTS Centre that fills the roll of a multi-purpose stadium just fine. I wish people would stop complaining about that.

[GORDBO]

Originally Posted by Shinook

We don't need a covered football stadium. We have the MTS Centre that fills the roll of a multi-purpose stadium just fine. I wish people would stop complaining about that.

HUH???? Since when do the Bombers play at MTS????

[Shinook]

Originally Posted by GORDBO

HUH???? Since when do the Bombers play at MTS????

Miscommunication.

Multipurpose in Sask would have been for both football and other entertainment (a two-in-one)

MTS Centre holds events (and hockey) and IGF will hold football.

Since we already have a covered venue, we don't need a second.

[SkydivePilot]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Well simple answer. Cranes do break down into pieces.... If you can drive a truck into the stadium then you can get crane components in....

If the roof is a post hocean project, then; hopefully, there would be a hole large enough to drive large vehicles inside.