Winnipeg Construction

[lilwayne]

we can debate all day long about whether downtown winnipeg is or has been improving over the years or not, but i just like to look at the facts and not waste time discussing personal views on stuff. From a subjective view point someone can argue that they dislike our downtown, but based on the facts no one can dispute weather our downtown has been improving or not. We have new developments and businesses popping up all over downtown and there is absolutely no debating that. We just added a new national museum into the downtown area and are also spending millions on expanding the existing convention center. Factually speaking more than a billion dollars have been invested in the downtown area over the past 10 years and the spending is not stopping anytime soon. There are over 3 condo highrise projects in the works in the downtown and even more on the horizon. Im not arguing whether each and every one of these projects was a success but theres no denying projects like the millennium library, mts center, mb hydro bldg and u of w additions have not added some much needed life to the core. Portage place was flop no doubt, but the biggest reason retail and grocery stores failed was because of lack of residential spaces in the area. Now that new hotels, apartments and condos are being added into the core there is going to be a huge influx of people coming into the area and breathing life into existing businesses and attracting new business to open up. Thats how development and growth works, the people attract the businesses, the businesses dont attract the people.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by vid

You think Katz gets Christmas cards? If he does, does it offend him the way Christians think it does when non-Christians get Christmas cards?

i got a christmas card from sam katz this year.

[headhorse]

Originally Posted by lilwayne

we can debate all day long about whether downtown winnipeg is or has been improving over the years or not, but i just like to look at the facts and not waste time discussing personal views on stuff. From a subjective view point someone can argue that they dislike our downtown, but based on the facts no one can dispute weather our downtown has been improving or not. We have new developments and businesses popping up all over downtown and there is absolutely no debating that. We just added a new national museum into the downtown area and are also spending millions on expanding the existing convention center. Factually speaking more than a billion dollars have been invested in the downtown area over the past 10 years and the spending is not stopping anytime soon. There are over 3 condo highrise projects in the works in the downtown and even more on the horizon. Im not arguing whether each and every one of these projects was a success but theres no denying projects like the millennium library, mts center, mb hydro bldg and u of w additions have not added some much needed life to the core. Portage place was flop no doubt, but the biggest reason retail and grocery stores failed was because of lack of residential spaces in the area. Now that new hotels, apartments and condos are being added into the core there is going to be a huge influx of people coming into the area and breathing life into existing businesses and attracting new business to open up. Thats how development and growth works, the people attract the
businesses, the businesses dont attract the people.

Regardless of anything else going on in this thread, lilwayne is definitely the most improved poster of 2012. Good post.

Winnipeg was built on a massive flood plain. We are a city of mistakes but I think we are learning and growing and many of those mistakes make Winnipeg what it is. It's easy to read Jane Jacobs and say "This is how it needs to be." but change is slow and people need to be patient. Vigilant, obviously, but patient, too.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Riverman

My point is that the general impression of the downtown is that it is still on the decline.

i don't think thats even close to being true....the down town population has increased by 20% in the last 5 years...there are practically no empty storefronts, even on Portage Avenue....when i started working in the exchange 10 years ago, half the buildings were empty, there was a handful of antique shops and nothing else....now thousands of people live there, hardly a single building or storefront is empty....there is a busy arena, employment in downtown has increased by 10%...thousands more students....i could go on and on.

anyone who thinks downtown is on the decline is a complete idiot...and they clearly don t remember what it was 5-10 years ago.....

i certainly don't hear that from anyone i run into.....in fact most people i speak to express considerable optimism about winnipeg and its downtown.

[JamieDavid Exchange]

Originally Posted by trueviking

i don't think thats even close to being true....the down town population has increased by 20% in the last 5 years...there are practically no empty storefronts, even on Portage Avenue....when i started working in the exchange 10 years ago, half the buildings were empty, there was a handful of antique shops and nothing else....now thousands of people live there, hardly a single building or storefront is empty....there is a busy arena, employment in downtown has increased by 10%...thousands more students....i could go on and on.

anyone who thinks downtown is on the decline is a complete idiot...and they clearly don t remember what it was 5-10 years ago.....

i certainly don't hear that from anyone i run into.....in fact most people i speak to express considerable optimism about winnipeg and its downtown.

I must agree.
I moved in the east exchange a few years ago after moving from a two story home with a yard and detached garage. At the same time, I bought a brand new Ford Escape. I work downtown. I do have underground parking at my condo building, but my truck sits there until I'm forced to go out grocery shopping or when I go visit family. After three and a half years, I just surpassed 20k on the odometer. That includes yearly road trips, visiting family, and grocery shopping. My point, I LOVE LIVING DOWNTOWN. I walk everywhere; to work, to games/plays/concerts,the gym, out to eat, and other shopping. I walk home during the afternoon rush and see traffic at a crawl to escape to their quiet, boring, suburban neighbourhoods. I laugh to myself and think "thank goodness I don't have to sit in traffic everyday for nearly an hour; (morning and afternoon rush). Yes, you will get more bang for your buck in the suburbs, but my time is worth WAY more than that. Im having a glass of wine by the time they get through Portage and Main.
Downtown just needs a grocery store(s). That's it. So, to all the downtown nay-sayers, downtown is a self sufficient neighborhood and only getting better. Get in now while the getting in is good. Cause in ten years, its gonna be the harder and more expensive to be a part of a vibrant neighborhood.

[armorand93]

And this is why I'm starting to avoid posting on SSP...

[lilwayne]

Originally Posted by armorand93

And this is why I'm starting to avoid posting on SSP...

?

do you have an issue with members on this forum having healthy discussion about the state of our downtown. I mean its fairly relevant to the thread in my opinion, and i don't see how anything anyone has says has been inflammatory or offensive in anyway.

[headhorse]

Originally Posted by rgalston

That's just a bunch of hipster gobblygook. Why don't you go buy a handmade wool sweater in a 100 year-old building, and leave the discussion to the experts here?

Personally, I would hate to live in a neighbourhood where large parking structures WEREN'T a dominant feature of the landscape.

I agree with a lot of things you say, but is this necessary? Yes, we understand you have several years of schooling in urban studies and you make it a significant part of your life. Not all of us can devote our time to that. Most of us just want to see Winnipeg become a more enjoyable city to live in (with most of us agreeing that the downtown should be more walkable/livable/accessible/etc) but not all of us are aware of the intricacies of planning and how to achieve those things. Your condescending tone and sarcasm isn't appreciated or helpful, especially after h0twired apologized for using the term "hipster".

I understand you've invested a lot of time (through articles, posting on here in the past, etc) in trying to make people understand even just the basic principles of livable cities and how to improve Winnipeg, but are the people that post on here really the people you should be directing your bitterness towards? Most of us just want to learn and do what we can to contribute to making Winnipeg a better place to live. Most of us would probably be appreciative of any insights you could provide.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by trueviking

anyone who thinks downtown is on the decline is a complete idiot...and they clearly don t remember what it was 5-10 years ago.....

Is this type of comment necessary? I surely don't know as much as you on this subject but I don't believe I have ever offered you this level of personal insult. Maybe put down the scotch bottle?

Was it not less than a year ago that Air Canada pulled its overnight stays from downtown because of the vagrancy?

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by trueviking

anyone who thinks downtown is on the decline is a complete idiot...and they clearly don t remember what it was 5-10 years ago.....

I think the view expressed is pretty harsh.

From a vacancy perspective, downtown has come a long way since the 90's, but i'm not convinced it's anymore vibrant.

I spent the summer living in Sydney with my Australian girlfriend, and my first thought upon returning to Winnipeg was one of sadness and regret.

No street life and completely desolate after 5 pm, that's our downtown on a good day when people aren't getting stabbed in front of Portage Place.

The low vacancy rate on Portage is fuelled by an ever expanding welfare state..In what other city but Winnipeg would you find social services in the storefront of a redeveloped heritage property like the Avenue building?

The new United Way building, the WRHA, Manitoba Hydro, the government office inside the Birks building..a University of Winnipeg in empire mode, hellbent on closing every seedy hotel and replacing it with some kind of social services centre..

The hallmarks of a great downtown these projects ain't.

In fact, i'd go so far to say that downtown isn't really any better than it was 20 or 30 years ago, despite the addition of all of these glassy new buildings.

[headhorse]

I think most of the optimism about downtown is about the proposed projects right now... obviously there hasn't been enough private business investment (aside from several restaurants including a few on Portage) but we have three separate PRIVATE companies (ALT, Milestone's, Stantec) moving downtown and onto Portage. We have a new rental tower under construction. We have at least two large condominium projects underway. Design issues aside, these are private businesses making investments in the downtown. Whether downtown has improved enough in the past 5/10/15 years for some people's liking aside, there is obvious investments being made right now. In my opinion, these companies wouldn't be doing that if they felt downtown was dying.

also, when was the last stabbing in front of Portage Place?

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Is this type of comment necessary? I surely don't know as much as you on this subject but I don't believe I have ever offered you this level of personal insult. Maybe put down the scotch bottle?

Was it not less than a year ago that Air Canada pulled its overnight stays from downtown because of the vagrancy?

sorry man...that wasn't directed at you at all...i was referring to whoever it is that you say believes downtown is still declining.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

I think the view expressed is pretty harsh.

From a vacancy perspective, downtown has come a long way since the 90's, but i'm not convinced it's anymore vibrant.

I spent the summer living in Sydney with my Australian girlfriend, and my first thought upon returning to Winnipeg was one of sadness and regret.

No street life and completely desolate after 5 pm, that's our downtown on a good day when people aren't getting stabbed in front of Portage Place.

The low vacancy rate on Portage is fuelled by an ever expanding welfare state..In what other city but Winnipeg would you find social services in the storefront of a redeveloped heritage property like the Avenue building?

The new United Way building, the WRHA, Manitoba Hydro, the government office inside the Birks building..a University of Winnipeg in empire mode, hellbent on closing every seedy hotel and replacing it with some kind of social services centre..

The hallmarks of a great downtown these projects ain't.

In fact, i'd go so far to say that downtown isn't really any better than it was 20 or 30 years ago, despite the addition of all of these glassy new buildings.

where is the low vacancy on Portage Avenue exactly?...is there even a single empty storefront from main street to polo park?.....maybe one?

not much question that downtown isn't what it was 30 years ago, but its miles ahead of what it was 10 years ago...i spend 8 hours a day there...i can attest to the change....it is staggering....i used to eat lunch in old market square completely alone and wonder where everyone was...i used to park for free under the canopy of the abandoned steam plant...now there are 10 condo buildings there, more being built and new hotel going up.

ten years ago i would stand at the corner of albert and mcdermot and think how could every one of these buildings be empty?....today?...not a single one is.

Sydney australia is one of the greatest cities on earth.....to make the argument that Winnipeg's downtown is still in decline because we don't match Sydney is pretty ridiculous.

remember what i said.....i didn't say winnipeg's downtown is perfect, or made any judgement of its quality.....i simply said anyone who thinks it is in decline.....that is to say becoming worse than it previously was, is an idiot....i stand by that comment....anyone who thinks downtown is worse off than it was 5 or 10 years ago has not spent any time there and is making that judgement based on ignorance.

you compare us to Sydney....i just got back from Phoenix and came back thinking Winnipeg has 10 times the urban quality....in fact, I'd put our downtown up against 90% of north american cities.....especially ones under 1 million people....

i am not making a judgement compared to the great cities of the world..i am making comparison against what winnipeg was.....it is FAR better off than it was when there were dozens of empty units along Portage, when the exchange was completely vacant.....that was not long ago....i don't see how anyone can walk through the exchange district today and say downtown has declined from 5-8 years ago.

you point to the ham fisted planning driven by centre venture and i wont argue that point at all...i totally agree....but for every WRHA there is a union tower redevelopment...for every government office in the Birk's building there are three condo redevelopments.....yes, i wish the storefront of the avenue was a boutique shop or trendy restaurant, but there are 30 of those in the exchange today that did not exist 6 years ago.

and if we are going to talk about perception of the typical suburbanite, which is where this all started, they would probably think that north main is a million times better than it was a few years ago when it was empty lots and derelict buildings....you and i know it was a mistake, but if we are talking about perception, i don't think you remember what it looked like before.


btw, what do you have against hydro moving 2000 workers downtown and the expansion of the U of W?....both huge positives in my books....how many new restaurants are there within a block of the U of W now?....

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

I think you might be surprised. I think there is definitely a market for the empty nesters to be moving downtown too, especially ones that are looking at five to ten years before retiring and are still working downtown. Ones where having a large yard for their young children to run around in doesn't matter as they are already grown and on their own. There is also the size thing where an average house is 1600 to 1800 sq ft with a quarter of that being extra bedrooms that really are not getting used anymore.

Admittedly my own experience is shaped by the fact that I'm closer in age to the twentysomething crowd than I am to the 55+ empty nesters, so I haven't been exposed to as many of the latter as compared to the former. It doesn't surprise me to hear that the empty nest crowd is a big part of the market, though. Whenever I walk by Excelsior I and II on Waterfront Drive, the faces I see going in and out of the building tend to be older than you might imagine the typical downtown condo dweller to be (which may partly because of the relatively high prices in that building).

I will say that the condo building I used to live in around the Broadway-Assiniboine area had an impressive demographic mix. A lot of seniors, a lot of young professionals just out of school, some middle-aged singles and even a number of families with kids doing what must strike many suburban Winnipeggers as unthinkable: raising children downtown.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by Riverman

I understand Bdog but people who initially bought in Whyteridge were not expecting a walkable lifestyle in the least bit.

No, I'm sure they weren't. But I was referring to your quote of

Common sense would dictate that because one has to feed oneself, one would want to live near a grocery store.

Not a jab at you at all. Just pointing out that many people who say "why would anyone live downtown - there are no amenities" do just fine living without amenities in Royal Wood, Lindenwoods, Waverley West, etc...

[vid]

I think it is partly that people can no longer recognize amenities without a 50 foot sign towering over a six-lane road.

[Shinook]

Originally Posted by trueviking

where is the low vacancy on Portage Avenue exactly?...is there even a single empty storefront from main street to polo park?.....maybe one?

not much question that downtown isn't what it was 30 years ago, but its miles ahead of what it was 10 years ago...i spend 8 hours a day there...i can attest to the change....it is staggering....i used to eat lunch in old market square completely alone and wonder where everyone was...i used to park for free under the canopy of the abandoned steam plant...now there are 10 condo buildings there, more being built and new hotel going up.

ten years ago i would stand at the corner of albert and mcdermot and think how could every one of these buildings be empty?....today?...not a single one is.

Sydney australia is one of the greatest cities on earth.....to make the argument that Winnipeg's downtown is still in decline because we don't match Sydney is pretty ridiculous.

remember what i said.....i didn't say winnipeg's downtown is perfect, or made any judgement of its quality.....i simply said anyone who thinks it is in decline.....that is to say becoming worse than it previously was, is an idiot....i stand by that comment....anyone who thinks downtown is worse off than it was 5 or 10 years ago has not spent any time there and is making that judgement based on ignorance.

you compare us to Sydney....i just got back from Phoenix and came back thinking Winnipeg has 10 times the urban quality....in fact, I'd put our downtown up against 90% of north american cities.....especially ones under 1 million people....

i am not making a judgement compared to the great cities of the world..i am making comparison against what winnipeg was.....it is FAR better off than it was when there were dozens of empty units along Portage, when the exchange was completely vacant.....that was not long ago....i don't see how anyone can walk through the exchange district today and say downtown has declined from 5-8 years ago.

you point to the ham fisted planning driven by centre venture and i wont argue that point at all...i totally agree....but for every WRHA there is a union tower redevelopment...for every government office in the Birk's building there are three condo redevelopments.....yes, i wish the storefront of the avenue was a boutique shop or trendy restaurant, but there are 30 of those in the exchange today that did not exist 6 years ago.

and if we are going to talk about perception of the typical suburbanite, which is where this all started, they would probably think that north main is a million times better than it was a few years ago when it was empty lots and derelict buildings....you and i know it was a mistake, but if we are talking about perception, i don't think you remember what it looked like before.


btw, what do you have against hydro moving 2000 workers downtown and the expansion of the U of W?....both huge positives in my books....how many new restaurants are there within a block of the U of W now?....

What a great post. Well written and thought out. We need more posters like yourself, who are in touch with the real happenings occuring in the city, instead of just your typical complainer who will make outrageous comparisons and the same old tiresome comments. I must admit that I've gain a large amount of respect for you as a poster over this last half year since I've started to interact with this forum. I've also come to enjoy reading your commentaries in the FP online. Keep up the great work, and rest assured that your voice isn't going unheard.

[Bluenote]

I am actually hoping come the new year some of you negative posters move to another province. Because really most of you that are so negative either live so far out in the burbs or in another city , usually toronto........have no idea what is in this great city.

I have always loved Winnipeg even when it was down and out. I never slandered it like my friends growing up who always wanted the big boom town feel, I loved the city the way it is.

People say crime is so bad, but look on a crime statistics map, the areas with the most crime honestly are where the rich live. The ones who are usually the complainers in the paper or news about how afraid they are of downtown. I think it was just last year that Main street from the CP underpass to Selkirk had the lowest crime rate in the city. But one would never think so due to the people who live there.

And that is one of the issue some of you do not see, the crimes that do happen, like murder, are usually gang related. I rarely see domestic murders that you see in other big cities, and honestly those bother me more. I rather be the gang murder capitol then the domestic violence capitol of Canada. And again this is where CANADA as a whole needs to really redo, that Murder crap capitol, and break it down to what is really happening.

Now do I feel afraid of downtown? NOT AT ALL, never have, even when it was in the downs. I have no issue walking down main street at 2am, ya you may get some one that is drunk asking for money, big deal, maybe spare some change, look at his life! Would you want it. So ya, maybe that bottle he is getting toasted on is a bad thing in your eyes, but it is all he has. So Yes I feel sorry for him.

As for feeling unsafe, the times I honestly feel unsafe are rare, but are usually when I am exiting one of the high end bars in this city where you have a bunch of rich white boys, who cannot handle their booze and try to pick a fight and always in group style. This is an issue that the Police need to tend to. I wonder just how many of these people leave these bars way over the limit and drive home.

All in all, no one can say this city is on the down turn anymore. Same goes for this province. Yes we are in debt, but we sure are not poor. Alberta btw is in debt also, only province not in debt, is SASK.

I will like my grandfather and great grandfather stay in this wonderfull city and hope my kids do the same.

That is my holiday rant.

Thanks for reading.

[armorand93]

...construction anybody?

[The Jabroni]

Way too many "Negative Nancy's" around here as of late. This city in past had been in rock bottom, but the past 10 years, Winnipeg has been climbing up, and I believe it hasn't stopped, and will continue to climb as the years go on.

We've been out of that long tunnel for quite some time, and we also got out of the woods. Now it's just the matter of how fast we can go. We may not be lightning fast as Calgary was, or how Saskatchewan is right now, but we're still progressing nonetheless.

Bring on 2013! I'm sure that there will be more ambitious and exciting projects coming up in the new year, I just know it!!