The Bay Parkade Redevelopment | 315, 271, 239m | 80, 69, 68fl | Proposed

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by Bokimon

I can just imagine the proponents of this project are as greasy as the mega hotel resort developers in Las Vegas with several properties on gigantic lots holding thousands of rooms over a gigantic building like the Aria or Fontainbleau, or those who play the Bonnis type of game to sit and sell the sites over a number of years to simply cash in their profits with no intention of building anything which I am certain Vancity would probably not allow. Isn't a condition tied heavily to the construction of the low income housing tower nearby? So if they are all in with this proposal, I hope there is a magic rabbit that can be pulled out of their deep collective top hats and snag some huge hotelier or resort conglomerate that can actually provide a business case of making 900 hotel/long stay rooms work in DT Van including probably leveraging the adjacent condo towers to cushion as much costs as possible.

They don't have the capacity or legal standing to actually do this.
(i.e. reject an application on the presumption that they're simply applying to get a permit or upzone a site with the intention to sell it later on.
I mean,....how would they be able to tell that this is the true intention of an applicant?)

Whether or not a project actually gets built is up to the capacity and the will of the developer or applicant themselves.

There's a whole boatload of fully permitted proposals and projects whose developers are currently just sitting on them with no intention of going to construction any time soon because of the current market conditions and a good chunk of them will likely sell up at some point if they can't make the numbers work.

The city has no crystal ball or magic power to be able to divine who was actually well-intentioned in their applications just so they can deny or accept permit applications on that basis.
They simply process them on them merits of the submitted proposal and let the other end play as it does. (....or can).

The most the city can do is come to an agreement with the developer with regards to the prioritization of the low-income tower to be built first if any construction takes place to ensure that that carrot wasn't just getting dangled for the developer to get their way with the project they really wanted to get built and make money on.

[bb1510]

Confirmed with Joo Kim, it will be another Paradox branded hotel.

They are actively doing pre con services and moving the project ahead, but I do not know if it's just to have a more comprehensive package ready to sell down the road

https://www.edgeprop.sg/property-news/tiah-joo-kims-ta-global-bets-big-kuala-lumpur-and-vancouver-skylines

They are also doing a 548 key Paradox hotel in Kuala Lumpur as well

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by bb1510

Confirmed with Joo Kim, it will be another Paradox branded hotel.

This is getting out of hand - now there are two of them!

[jollyburger]

There's already five Paradox branded hotels in Asia.

https://www.paradoxhotels.com/destination

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

This is getting out of hand - now there are two of them!

Like the Hyatt or Fairmont.

[madog222]

Paradox Glass Sponge

[officedweller]

If Harbour Centre wasn't already The Lookout, I'd say Paradox Lookout.
Maybe Paradox Panarama.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

There's already five Paradox branded hotels in Asia.

https://www.paradoxhotels.com/destination

“Big in Asia” didn’t help Shangri-La last in Vancouver so I doubt Paradox is going to resonate with the average tourist here. But I guess if you don’t want to pay management fees to a recognized brand….

[Vantage]

I'd never heard of Paradox before they opened a hotel here. They have practically zero brand recognition with me. I'm not much of an international traveller though.

[bb1510]

because they're cheap and don't want to pay franchise fees. They also want to build their own brand and feel that they're able to

[teriyaki]

Originally Posted by bb1510

because they're cheap and don't want to pay franchise fees. They also want to build their own brand and feel that they're able to

Yea, its basically an in-house brand because they don't want to put in the time/effort/money to brand them properly.

Looking at their other properties, its a complete mish-mash of accumulated real estate with just a simple "re-naming". There is no real rhyme or reason to their architecture, level of service, or amenities. No clear delineation of where each property sits in the well-established hotel class hierarchy.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by teriyaki

Yea, its basically an in-house brand because they don't want to put in the time/effort/money to brand them properly.

Looking at their other properties, its a complete mish-mash of accumulated real estate with just a simple "re-naming". There is no real rhyme or reason to their architecture, level of service, or amenities. No clear delineation of where each property sits in the well-established hotel class hierarchy.

Is anyone surprised?

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by whatnext

“Big in Asia” didn’t help Shangri-La last in Vancouver so I doubt Paradox is going to resonate with the average tourist here. But I guess if you don’t want to pay management fees to a recognized brand….

I mean,......they did have a ..."recognized"* ....brand before....

But that didn't work out too great.


(*...."recognized" is doing a lot of work and heavy lifting here, I realize.
Infamously recognized, perhaps.)

Maybe,.....'Premier' or 'Elite' or 'World-renowned' brand is what they need, but seem to be too cheap to actually get.

My personal feeling is that no actually established brand name wants to get on board or in bed with them, because they probably feel like some of us do that this is all pie-in-the sky, and will never actually happen - and none of them want to let their brand be used to help someone market their site and project proposal for a salw down the road to someone else that might have other ideas or even another brand they'd prefer to work with.
Nothing else in their portfolio shows anything close to a 900+ keys supertall tower.

Why would Vancouver suddenly be where that's feasible and actually works?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

I mean,......they did have a ..."recognized"* ....brand before....

But that didn't work out too great.


(*...."recognized" is doing a lot of work and heavy lifting here, I realize.
Infamously recognized, perhaps.)

Maybe,.....'Premier' or 'Elite' or 'World-renowned' brand is what they need, but seem to be too cheap to actually get.

My personal feeling is that no actually established brand name wants to get on board or in bed with them, because they probably feel like some of us do that this is all pie-in-the sky, and will never actually happen - and none of them want to let their brand be used to help someone market their site and project proposal for a salw down the road to someone else that might have other ideas or even another brand they'd prefer to work with.
Nothing else in their portfolio shows anything close to a 900+ keys supertall tower.

Why would Vancouver suddenly be where that's feasible and actually works?

I suspect Holborn (if they’re even serious about this) thinks demand in Vancouver is strong enough to overcome the weak branding etc. Problem is there’s a lot of new product in the pipeline and that is going to make it a lot more competitive.

[Glow Fun City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I suspect Holborn (if they’re even serious about this) thinks demand in Vancouver is strong enough to overcome the weak branding etc. Problem is there’s a lot of new product in the pipeline and that is going to make it a lot more competitive.

Meeting/event space could be a big factor, not many hotels in town are big enough for larger conventions (and VCEC is overbooked all the time)

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Glow Fun City

Meeting/event space could be a big factor, not many hotels in town are big enough for larger conventions (and VCEC is overbooked all the time)

I know people in the conferencing space and this seems to be their biggest headache in Vancouver. Another hotel right off the Skytrain would be very appealing I think.

[bb1510]

No, it's because they're pulling off another higher key count property with the Paradox brand offshore in Malaysia and feel they can do the same here

[RedArbutus]

I had no idea they operated Summit Lodge and Aava in Whistler. Bizarre. Talk about not having a cohesive identity in their portfolio. Summit is an awesome dog-friendly boutique hotel near Marketplace. Aava is a generic 3 star that you stay at when you absolutely must stay at a hotel in Whistler in the village but can't stomach paying more than $300 a night. Neither of them scream "run by a hotel brand known more for SE Asia megatowers"