[Saint John] Uptown Thread

[Taeolas]

Probably their best bets for an anchor tenant would be a grocery store, maybe the cheap format of one of the main brands; like NoFrills.

Luring in Giant Tiger or similar might be a possibility as well.

Otherwise the best they might get might be a large format pharmacy like Shoppers or Lawtons.

A "proper" anchor like CT, Simons or Walmart are certainly out of the question. And even a full brand grocery like Sobeys or Superstore are unlikely.

[Comora]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Probably their best bets for an anchor tenant would be a grocery store, maybe the cheap format of one of the main brands; like NoFrills.

Luring in Giant Tiger or similar might be a possibility as well.

Otherwise the best they might get might be a large format pharmacy like Shoppers or Lawtons.

A "proper" anchor like CT, Simons or Walmart are certainly out of the question. And even a full brand grocery like Sobeys or Superstore are unlikely.

According to who? Brunswick square already has a lawtons… and giant tiger is two blocks away.

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by Comora

According to who? Brunswick square already has a lawtons… and giant tiger is two blocks away.

I'm not familiar with SJ, so I wasn't sure.

So they're probably aiming for a grocery store. I'm sure they would love to get a full Sobeys or Superstore; but a NoFrills or Sobey's equivalent r is more likely. (The Sobeys brand especially if they have a Lawtons already)

Unless they can convince/lure Giant Tiger to shift over. Not impossible but much more unlikely.

[bingun]

Yeah, Lawton's has been and continues to be the Anchor tenant. They essentially want a second anchor tenant.

We've discussed it several times on this forum before, but I just don't know whether a grocery store will open in the short to medium term. 99 King seemed like a good opportunity for a small one, but it hasn't materialized.

We already have a giant tiger a couple of blocks away, and with two No Frills, one on each side of the city, I am not sure we can justify a 3rd. I'd love a FreshCo, but I'd prefer they replace the North End Sobeys rather than put it in Brunswick Square.

Also, keep in mind that, in its current state, the mall closes at 6 pm. No grocery store is going to be okay with that, unless it is a unit with external access. They'd have to offer rock-bottom rent and extended opening hours.

The hard truth the owners need to face is that the mall is no longer a high-value asset. If they want any hope of it becoming one again one day, they need to write down the mall's value and offer competitive leasing rates.

[sailor734]

It would be nice to see one of Sobeys or Loblaws urban sized stores in Brunswick Sq but I'm not sure it would do the volume needed for one of the discount varieties and I doubt the demographic would support one of their boutique, higher end offerings.

If they got anything I suspect it would be something along the line of one of the new compact No Frills or a FreshCo

[Comora]

Look at how busy Marshall’s and winners are in SJ. I truly think that a Simons in Brunswick square would be a hit. I also think it would attract people from all over NB. The locations in Quebec City and Halifax are always very busy.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by bingun

We've discussed it several times on this forum before, but I just don't know whether a grocery store will open in the short to medium term. 99 King seemed like a good opportunity for a small one, but it hasn't materialized.

We already have a giant tiger a couple of blocks away, and with two No Frills, one on each side of the city, I am not sure we can justify a 3rd. I'd love a FreshCo, but I'd prefer they replace the North End Sobeys rather than put it in Brunswick Square.

Also, keep in mind that, in its current state, the mall closes at 6 pm. No grocery store is going to be okay with that, unless it is a unit with external access. They'd have to offer rock-bottom rent and extended opening hours.

1- Are we sure the team behind 99 King was... the right team to attract such a tenant? Brunswick Square would also offer easier transport truck access, a captive parking facility, etc.

2/3- The obvious move would be converting the whole ground floor to the hypothetical anchor tenant, excluding

• Delta lobby
• The various small CRUs to the north and east of the Delta lobby-- would all benefit from a grocery store across the way.
• Area immediately around the elevator and escalators.

A FreshCo or NoFrills (or whatever) would fit comfortably in the remainder, I think. Like we all say, total wishcasting, but something like this. Forgive the low-res, but it's the only floor plan I could find. Would have alright King Street presence, easy to segment off from 2nd and 3rd floors, plenty of space for fridges and freezers, and if I remember correctly, viable truck access: https://imgur.com/a/8enJVnc

[gtsoc]

Originally Posted by sailor734

It would be nice to see one of Sobeys or Loblaws urban sized stores in Brunswick Sq but I'm not sure it would do the volume needed for one of the discount varieties and I doubt the demographic would support one of their boutique, higher end offerings.

If they got anything I suspect it would be something along the line of one of the new compact No Frills or a FreshCo

Loblaw employees have previously toured Brunswick Square a year or two ago, so it appears there has been some sort of interest on their side - they were concerned with having to compete with The Green Grocer and H & S Meats.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by Comora

Look at how busy Marshall’s and winners are in SJ. I truly think that a Simons in Brunswick square would be a hit. I also think it would attract people from all over NB. The locations in Quebec City and Halifax are always very busy.

I feel like Simon’s would need a large catchment area, so Moncton area. What about an outlet mall for brand names - that would definitely attract people from across province - especially now that Maine has fallen out of favour with Canadians. Maybe it could be one operator, but each space have their own brand. It helps having a 750+ car garage attached to it.

[CharlotteSJ]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

I feel like Simon’s would need a large catchment area, so Moncton area. What about an outlet mall for brand names - that would definitely attract people from across province - especially now that Maine has fallen out of favour with Canadians. Maybe it could be one operator, but each space have their own brand. It helps having a 750+ car garage attached to it.

Paying for parking will ALWAYS kill business in the uptown core.
People would rather spend money in gas to go get something, than to pay for parking to get the same thing .... even if it's slightly cheaper/faster.
It's the same logic of getting a hot dog....
You could pay $2.50 at a take-out and have one in two minutes.
or
You could stand in line for 30-60 minutes to get a free hot dog at a public function.
Guess where people line up at?

People are strange when it comes to their time and their spending.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by CharlotteSJ

Paying for parking will ALWAYS kill business in the uptown core.
People would rather spend money in gas to go get something, than to pay for parking to get the same thing .... even if it's slightly cheaper/faster.
It's the same logic of getting a hot dog....
You could pay $2.50 at a take-out and have one in two minutes.
or
You could stand in line for 30-60 minutes to get a free hot dog at a public function.
Guess where people line up at?

People are strange when it comes to their time and their spending.

If Brunswick Square wants to bring people back to the mall they need a system for validating parking for people in the parking garage who shop at Brunswick Square. I remember going to the mall with my cousin in California and wondering why he had to get his parking validated before we left the mall, but all it took was one store validating his parking for us to leave the parkade without paying anything.

I’m not sure how such systems work entirely, like if you actually have to buy something, or stores pay a certain amount for how many people they validate, but having any sort of parking validation system would be pretty huge for a reimagined Brunswick Square, since so many people claim that they don’t want to find or pay for parking in Uptown Saint John. Moreover, parking validation would be a way to track visitors to the mall on a tenant by tenant basis.

If they can make people feel like they win when it comes to parking, even if that means spending a certain amount to get free, validated parking, it could be a huge change for the mall.

I still think a Uniqlo would be an ideal anchor tenant, but obviously not the easiest franchise to entice to invest in a “dead mall”. Maybe the simplest, best, solution for an anchor tenant at Brunswick Square would simply be Winners. Saint John could easily support a second Winners, and I could see a lot of people going to Brunswick Square specifically for Winners, many of whom would hit up the food court or pop into a few other stores.

I still think Brunswick Square could support a smaller scale cinema, which could even work across multiple floors of the office towers. In East Asia it’s common to find smaller scale cinemas at malls built in high rises above the mall, or as part of the mall. I think lots of people would go see a movie at Brunswick Square instead of driving to East, even if it meant watching it on a smaller screen.

Really though, where there exists the biggest opportunity for revitalizing the building, is professional services. Holt’s government promised us 30 community care clinics and a new approach to healthcare. The government could turn entire floors of the office tower, and possibly a large part of the mall, into an extensive collection of medical offices and facilities. I think Team Holt would be hard pressed to find a better location than Brunswick Square to invest in a cluster of medical facilities in Saint John, parking shouldn’t be an issue at Brunswick Square considering the parkade and deals that would be worked out for parking spaces between the province and the building owner.

Would be interested to know how much capacity currently exists at Brunswick Square’s Parking Garage for non monthly users I assume the large bulk of their parking spots are currently held by office workers and Uptown residents, but that could easily change if Brunswick Sauare Mall got some worthy anchor tenants and/or a cluster of medical facilities that extended into the office tower.

[bingun]

I don't normally listen to the radio, but I had to drive my partner's car this morning, and the radio came on automatically (97.3 the wave). I can't recall who it was, but someone associated with the new owners of the mall was speaking and saying they were willing to invest capital and reduce rates.

I'll take it with a pinch of salt, but at least they are trying to make some noise.

As for parking, I agree; a lot of people have this insane aversion to going anywhere they can't park for free outside. In the long term, I think the mall needs to put itself in a place where a lot of its foot traffic is from either the local population uptown, those who work uptown, or those visiting, like cruise ship passengers. Folks who live in the suburbs just aren't going to be reliable. Validating parking would help, but I don't think it is a battle they can win completely.

[sailor734]

One of the big issues with retail in the uptown is the lack of office workers. As long as we have large vacancy rates in office space compared to pre Covid levels retail will struggle.

[Pugsley]

Originally Posted by sailor734

One of the big issues with retail in the uptown is the lack of office workers. As long as we have large vacancy rates in office space compared to pre Covid levels retail will struggle.

Not if it is a destination. If you took your argument at face value, why is it East Point is so successful? There is only one "office", and that is the CAA offices.

If the new owners of Brunswick Square focused on making it a shopping destination - which it very much was before it started to decline (remember it was once a "fashion destination") then there isn't any need for it to need a supporting "workforce" nearby.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

Not if it is a destination. If you took your argument at face value, why is it East Point is so successful? There is only one "office", and that is the CAA offices.

If the new owners of Brunswick Square focused on making it a shopping destination - which it very much was before it started to decline (remember it was once a "fashion destination") then there isn't any need for it to need a supporting "workforce" nearby.

Not sure how easy it would be to create uptown as a shopping destination without a dramatically different parking situation.

[Taeolas]

Yeah, in order for a commercial development to be successful; you need traffic, either pedestrian or vehiclular, to bring shoppers into it.

Eastpoint has acres of parking available which makes it good for vehicle traffic, so it doesn't need a "local" source of consumers to supply it.

Brunswick Square doesn't really have any parking available, so it needs to find a different source of traffic. Office and Residential foot traffic would be the main drivers for that, and apparently SJ is facing a lack of both of those at the moment.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Yeah, in order for a commercial development to be successful; you need traffic, either pedestrian or vehiclular, to bring shoppers into it.

Eastpoint has acres of parking available which makes it good for vehicle traffic, so it doesn't need a "local" source of consumers to supply it.

Brunswick Square doesn't really have any parking available, so it needs to find a different source of traffic. Office and Residential foot traffic would be the main drivers for that, and apparently SJ is facing a lack of both of those at the moment.

Brunswick Square does have a 700 parking spot parkade though. Sure, most of the spots are probably currently occupied by office workers that don’t even live Uptown, but should there be any sort of major redevelopment plans for BS, the building ownership could cut loose hundreds of those monthly parking spots currently occupied.

As for creating more foot traffic, I don’t think it’s office workers we need to worry about, but rather residential units, perhaps even within the Brunswick Square office tower.

How many more developments equivalent to or larger than 99 King will we need to see built in the Uptown core for a legitimate grocery store to pop up somewhere? Maybe the focus should be less on getting the big chains to open up a store, and more looking for a small business to fill the missing grocery store niche for Uptown Saint John?

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Yeah, in order for a commercial development to be successful; you need traffic, either pedestrian or vehiclular, to bring shoppers into it.

Eastpoint has acres of parking available which makes it good for vehicle traffic, so it doesn't need a "local" source of consumers to supply it.

Brunswick Square doesn't really have any parking available, so it needs to find a different source of traffic. Office and Residential foot traffic would be the main drivers for that, and apparently SJ is facing a lack of both of those at the moment.

Once the Fundy Quay and 99 King are completed, there should be a increase in foot traffic uptown and through brunswick square.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Not sure how easy it would be to create uptown as a shopping destination without a dramatically different parking situation.

Can't say I've ever had an issue parking in uptown SJ. It's a perception issue more than anything else.

[bingun]

This is what I was listening to on the radio the other day. No grocery store it seems.

Brunswick Square revival back on the agenda under new owners

https://yoursaintjohn.ca/brunswick-square-revival-back-on-the-agenda-under-new-owners/

“We are willing to put a lot of money in terms of capital dollars to build out spaces; we are willing to provide very low rental rates to attract user groups who don’t necessarily need the capital injection,” he said.

“Right now, we have 150,000 square feet of retail space that we need to focus on to help transform the property but also help with the transformation of uptown [Saint John] as well,” he said.

While Kaupp said there are no concrete plans at this time, he noted that revitalizing Brunswick Square will require a “transformative industry in the market.” With that in mind, the company is exploring a range of non-retail uses for the vacant spaces, building on concepts considered during previous redevelopment efforts.

Kaupp said possibilities include marketing and educational facilities, innovation hubs such as laboratories, research and medical facilities, and community-focused spaces like libraries and community centres.

When asked whether Clarke was considering a grocery store as an anchor tenant, Kaupp said the company has discussed the idea with several retailers, including Sobeys and Loblaw. However, he said many were reluctant to invest in a Brunswick Square location, citing a lack of residential density in uptown Saint John to support a grocery store.

“Until there is a critical mass of residential density in uptown, I think the uptown grocer is going to sort of hinge on that,” he said.