Where Is The Rust Belt?

[Docere]

But didn't these regions grow quite fast? But obviously it's not due to thriving cores but suburban sprawl.

In terms of regional growth, Buffalo is pretty much the same as in 1950, Chicago and Detroit have grown modestly, while Columbus, Indianapolis and KC grew faster.

[Docere]

Anyone know these cities well enough to post demographic info (income, race/ethnicity, educational attainment) for pre-annexations Columbus, Indianapolis and KC?

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Docere

But didn't these regions grow quite fast? But obviously it's not due to thriving cores but suburban sprawl.

In terms of regional growth, Buffalo is pretty much the same as in 1950, Chicago and Detroit have grown modestly, while Columbus, Indianapolis and KC grew faster.

Buffalo is the core city, county seat of Erie County which peaked in 1970 at over 1.1 million. Niagara County (Niagara Falls) peaked in or around 1960/1960s at just under 250k

The KC Metro/MSA is around 1 million larger than it was around 1960.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Crawford

IMO Downtown Columbus is terrible, one of the worst pound-for-pound in the Midwest. Definitely worse than Indy. But everything surrounding downtown is far, far more vibrant and cohesive than Indy, and Columbus just feels more urban and lived-in, with tons of infill. Also feels more progressive, educated and affluent.

I hate to bring up a mall, but Easton Town Center essentially serves as a CBD, and is walkable, lively and quasi-urban. I'd rather stay at Easton than downtown, and I'm an urbanist. At Easton I've walked to a nice dinner and bookstore. Can't do that downtown.

I stay in Short North when I'm in Columbus and I think it's great. I've also stayed downtown one or two times but on the north end so it's walkable ish. At the end of the day, I'd rather be a short uber ride away to a walkable zone than out at Easton Town Center. It's splitting hairs, but even though Short North is technically separated from downtown by an interstate, it doesn't feel like that big of a deadzone as from what I remember, as I think the city streets traverse OVER the interstate as opposed to under it. In my mind, that makes a big difference when thinking about walkability, mentally.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Docere

Anyone know these cities well enough to post demographic info (income, race/ethnicity, educational attainment) for pre-annexations Columbus, Indianapolis and KC?

The only one that might be easy-ish for is Center Township Indy, because it still exists today as a known thing.

Old city Milwaukee, KC, and Columbus all involve overlaying 1950 city limits maps on current CT maps and adding up tracts the old fashioned way.


I did exactly that to get old city Milwaukee's 2020 population figure.

Super fucking tedious. I don't recommend.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Have you followed KC at all?

Columbus planned a streetcar line on High St. circa 2005-07, when Coleman was mayor. This was when Short North was turning around but there were still some development gaps between it and OSU. Obviously, High St. boomed without the streetcar line and it's tough to envision such a system working well because the street is relatively narrow and has become quite congested. Also, a big problem with Columbus's street grid is that it does not meet equally at High St., meaning there are many more intersections than there would be otherwise, which really would have complicated streetcar operations.

Here is a typical area where there would have been a lot of turning conflicts:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Columb..._ep=EgoyMDI2MDcwNy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D


Meanwhile, KC's Main St. is very wide south of Union Station. There was plenty of space for them to create a fenced-off landscaped median for streetcars in the middle of the road (or consistently protected and landscaped streetcar lanes along the curbs) but for whatever reason they did not do that and although ridership is very high I believe that they could have done a much better job.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

The only one that might be easy-ish for is Center Township Indy, because it still exists today as a known thing.

Old city Milwaukee, KC, and Columbus all involve overlaying 1950 city limits maps on current CT maps and adding up tracts the old fashioned way.


I did exactly that to get old city Milwaukee's 2020 population figure.

Super fucking tedious. I don't recommend.

So there's 4 hours of your life that you won't get back...

[ColDayMan]

Originally Posted by Docere

Anyone know these cities well enough to post demographic info (income, race/ethnicity, educational attainment) for pre-annexations Columbus, Indianapolis and KC?

For Columbus, the Old City population is as follows:

1930: 290,564
1940: 306,086
1950: 375,710
1960: 389,222
1970: 348,808
1980: 287,089
1990: 268,265
2000: 246,712
2010: 234,582
2020: 256,939

If you want to look up demographic data for these core tracts, I do have tract maps going back to 1930 here: https://allcolumbusdata.com/demographic-census-tract-maps/ that, I apologize, I don't have time to add up.

This site also may provide assistance for all those cities you'd like info on: https://www.nhgis.org/

[craigs]

As I understand it from three generations of my family, the inner-city post-WWII population decline was due to wholesale 'urban renewal.' Innermost residential areas that would have still existed in 1950 were subsequently bulldozed and replaced with college campuses and medical facilities, freeways and interchanges, commercial/industrial buildings, and 'capital city' stuff (government buildings, museums, plazas, etc.). For example, almost all residential areas immediately west of the heart of the city disappeared.

Compare this post-WWII aerial with a current Google Maps aerial, with a focus on the periphery of the CBD:

[ColDayMan]

Because I was curious, I had someone over at UrbanOhio get the numbers for the 40 sq mi Old City of Columbus racial demographics from https://allcolumbusdata.com/demographic-census-tract-maps/:

White Alone
1950: 328,770
1960: 315,463
1970: 262,832
1980: 202,748
1990: 180,723
2000: 151,394
2010: 146,320
2020: 155,301
---
White, Non-Hispanic
1990: 179,308
2000: 149,215
2010: 140,106
2020: 150,850

Black Alone
1950: 46,692
1960: 72,771
1970: 85,068
1980: 79,345
1990: 80,646
2000: 79,985
2010: 68,928
2020: 66,552
---
Black, Non-Hispanic
1990: 80,273
2000: 79,443
2010: 68,231
2020: 65,724

Asian Alone
1970: 903
1980: 1,808
1990: 5,255
2000: 5,715
2010: 6,490
2020: 7,983
---
Asian, Non-Hispanic
1990: 5,047
2000: 5,692
2010: 6,432
2020: 7,927

Other Alone:
1970: 931
1980: 2,478
1990: 2,000
2000: 10,422
2010: 12,844
2020: 28,396
---
Other, Non-Hispanic
1990: 1,190
2000: 7,863
2010: 8,068
2020: 14,979

Hispanic
1980: 1,467
1990: 2,806
2000: 5,313
2010: 9,139
2020: 17,459

None of this is surprising as black folks have been moving into the 1970's-and-on annexed areas of Columbus, particularly the northeast and far eastside, and Latinos have long been on the westside 1970's annexed areas for a while. The only area I can think of Latinos moving to in the old city is Hilltop, which bleeds into the 70's communities of annexed Columbus (Westgate, Lincoln Village, etc). The Whites (and apparently The Others) love the infill.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by craigs

Compare this post-WWII aerial with a current Google Maps aerial, with a focus on the periphery of the CBD:

Unfortunately, I don't think that the diagonal-streets-converging-on-central-circle plan really added up to much for Indianapolis. If anything, it's an anticlimax. Not as though Columbus is much better - two wide streets meet at right angles and the state capitol is kind of lobbed in their SE armpit.

There are a few planned radials plans around the country that worked a lot better - especially Detroit. Washington, DC is also better, although it's difficult to memorize.

[Docere]

Center Township (core Indianapolis) is 48% NHW, 26% Black, 12% Hispanic. 38% have a bachelor's degree or higher. Per capita income is $40,705.

So fairly middling, not a Cleveland type "donut." Not that different from Indianapolis as a whole really.

https://censusreporter.org/profiles/06000US1809711512-center-township-marion-county-in/

[Docere]

Originally Posted by ColDayMan

Because I was curious, I had someone over at UrbanOhio get the numbers for the 40 sq mi Old City of Columbus racial demographics from https://allcolumbusdata.com/demographic-census-tract-maps/:

White Alone
1950: 328,770
1960: 315,463
1970: 262,832
1980: 202,748
1990: 180,723
2000: 151,394
2010: 146,320
2020: 155,301
---
White, Non-Hispanic
1990: 179,308
2000: 149,215
2010: 140,106
2020: 150,850

Black Alone
1950: 46,692
1960: 72,771
1970: 85,068
1980: 79,345
1990: 80,646
2000: 79,985
2010: 68,928
2020: 66,552
---
Black, Non-Hispanic
1990: 80,273
2000: 79,443
2010: 68,231
2020: 65,724

Asian Alone
1970: 903
1980: 1,808
1990: 5,255
2000: 5,715
2010: 6,490
2020: 7,983
---
Asian, Non-Hispanic
1990: 5,047
2000: 5,692
2010: 6,432
2020: 7,927

Other Alone:
1970: 931
1980: 2,478
1990: 2,000
2000: 10,422
2010: 12,844
2020: 28,396
---
Other, Non-Hispanic
1990: 1,190
2000: 7,863
2010: 8,068
2020: 14,979

Hispanic
1980: 1,467
1990: 2,806
2000: 5,313
2010: 9,139
2020: 17,459

None of this is surprising as black folks have been moving into the 1970's-and-on annexed areas of Columbus, particularly the northeast and far eastside, and Latinos have long been on the westside 1970's annexed areas for a while. The only area I can think of Latinos moving to in the old city is Hilltop, which bleeds into the 70's communities of annexed Columbus (Westgate, Lincoln Village, etc). The Whites (and apparently The Others) love the infill.

So similar Black share to Columbus as a whole, and a bit whiter.


https://censusreporter.org/profiles/16000US3918000-columbus-oh/

[Wigs]

Hosting FIFA World Cup games really helped boost the KC streetcar numbers. And the new riverfront extension (opened in May) and Main St extension (October 2025)helped as well
June ridership numbers came out.
Almost 700,000 riders during June and one day had over 48,000!
For an American streetcar that's one line no less that's amazing.




Source: KC streetcar
https://kcstreetcar.org/ridership/