Roads/Bridges projects/issues

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

It doesn't take 8 weeks to get concrete to cure. THis project could have been a 2 week closure with better planning and round-the-clock construction. Instead, we are inconveniencing 140000 drivers daily in each direction. What other city would tolerate this???

They're currently assembling a drill rig in the closure, so this is going to be a significant footing. That isn't really a surprise considering the wind loads on a highway sign, but still not just a case of knocking out the median and pouring a block of concrete like you might for a streetlight.

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Do you mean the Queensway station on-ramp? The one that's been taken over by regular traffic? It's connected to the Pinecrest exit ramp via a very long extra lane. What I'm arguing for is to drastically shorten the on-ramp to the bare minimum, then shift the through-lanes. I know it's complicated and requires re-painting everything (perhaps) but unacceptable to just have traffic backed up all the way through downtown every single day just for a goddam sign. Government bureaucracy sprinkled with project managers and a dash of 'design by committee' in Toronto is a nightmare for no reason.

Yes, the ramp from Queensway station. While it doesn't have many buses on the upper level, it serves the Transitway and buses from downtown to Bayshore. Having loaded buses merge onto a highway with a "bare minimum" on-ramp is probably a non-starter.

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

It doesn't take 8 weeks to get concrete to cure. THis project could have been a 2 week closure with better planning and round-the-clock construction. Instead, we are inconveniencing 140000 drivers daily in each direction. What other city would tolerate this???

You are correct, AuxTown. Concrete reaches full rated strength at about 4 weeks (if properly cured). However, there is also an amount of time required to prepare for the concrete pour. And then the concrete might be installed in stages, requiring previously poured concrete to cure for a week, or so, before the next is poured. I don’t know the sequence of this construction, but companies seldom book workers and equipment for much longer than needed.

As I understand it, LRT Stage 2 construction necessitated the moving of an MTO-owned sign over the 417. The existing sign spanned the west-bound lanes, just west of where the new Queensview Station pedestrian overpass is built. Since the new bridge would have hidden the sign from view, the sign had to be moved east of the bridge. (I think that the sign could have been added to the side of the pedestrian bridge – but OC Transpo doesn’t seem to want to share its assets.) The deal reached, apparently, was that the LRT Stage 2 construction would be responsible for moving the sign east of the bridge. Which is why this is being called work for LRT Stage 2.

I don’t know, but I suspect that the MTO is getting a new electronic sign installed – since that seems to be its current preference. If that is the case, there may be a lot more prep-work required before the footing can be poured. And, of course, the median wall will need to be reinstated once the footing work is suitably advanced.

I think that it is telling that, even throwing money at the problem so that work hours can be extended into the night, they were only able to shorten the time by a few weeks. This is likely only speeding up the prep-work and clean-up, not getting the concrete to cure faster. Thus, we still have more than a month of this disruption to endure.

Something that I have learned through life is ‘It almost always takes longer.’

[AuxTown]

Thanks for the construction insights, guys. I guess the real frustration came from the first 8 days with lane shifting/closures with zero workers or machines on site. Clearly, they mistimed the closure. Now that there is drilling and other work on site it seems slightly more reasonable.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

As I understand it, LRT Stage 2 construction necessitated the moving of an MTO-owned sign over the 417. The existing sign spanned the west-bound lanes, just west of where the new Queensview Station pedestrian overpass is built. Since the new bridge would have hidden the sign from view, the sign had to be moved east of the bridge. (I think that the sign could have been added to the side of the pedestrian bridge – but OC Transpo doesn’t seem to want to share its assets.) The deal reached, apparently, was that the LRT Stage 2 construction would be responsible for moving the sign east of the bridge. Which is why this is being called work for LRT Stage 2.

I don’t know, but I suspect that the MTO is getting a new electronic sign installed – since that seems to be its current preference. If that is the case, there may be a lot more prep-work required before the footing can be poured. And, of course, the median wall will need to be reinstated once the footing work is suitably advanced.

There were actually two overhead signs removed from 417 WB approaching Pinecrest - one advance sign back near the ped bridge, and another right at the exit to guide you into the correct lane:

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3514875,..._ep=EgoyMDI2MDUyNi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Since the exit got stretched back a bit to the east for the LRT, the sign and foundation need to be moved east as well, which is why this is LRT related work. The other advance sign was just west of the new bridge and may also require a new foundation.

I highly doubt that this is a digital sign - fixed signage is still used for navigation and wayfinding.

[Richard Eade]

Ah. Thanks for the extra info. I appreciate it.

[Richard Eade]

Less than 50% of drivers following speed limit at former Ottawa photo radar camera locations

That is the title of Josh Pringle’s article at CTVNEWS:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/ottawa/article/le...mer-ottawa-photo-radar-camera-locations/

So what does this exactly mean – beyond the startling headline?

The article has laid out MOST of the details for us by listing the changes in compliance and average speed for the eight original photo radar camera locations. (Since these were the first locations that the Automated Speeding-Ticketing system was installed, they were all worthy school-side locations – unlike some of the later locations, which I would consider ‘dubious’. Also notice that I don’t use the term Automated Speed Enforcement, since the cameras are not an immediate enforcement device, but send a ticket well after the offence took place.)

The missing, critical, piece of information? What the speed limit actually is at those locations.

Look at the numbers – with the speed limit – in October 2025:
Longfields Drive – between Longfields-Davidson HS, PE Trudeau Catholic Elem., & St. Mother Teresa HS

Speed Limit: 40 KPH
Average Speed: 35 KPH – 12.5% below the speed limit
Compliance: 91%

Innes Road – for Beatrice-Desloges Secondary Catholic School

Speed Limit: 60 KPH
Average Speed: 54 KPH – 10.0% below the speed limit
Compliance: 88%

Bayshore Drive – at St. Rose of Lima Catholic School

Speed Limit: 40 KPH
Average Speed: 34 KPH – 15.0% below the speed limit
Compliance: 88%

Katimavik Road – beside Holy Trinity High School Catholic School

Speed Limit: 40 KPH
Average Speed: 35 KPH – 12.5% below the speed limit
Compliance: 86%

Watters Drive – next to St. Francis of Assisi School Catholic School

Speed Limit: 40 KPH
Average Speed: 36 KPH – 10.0% below the speed limit
Compliance: 88%

Ogilvie Road – near Gloucester High School, library, & Earl Armstrong Arena

Speed Limit: 50 KPH
Average Speed: 45 KPH – 10.0% below the speed limit
Compliance: 86%

Smyth Road – in front of Vincent Massey Public School

Speed Limit: 50 KPH
Average Speed: 41 KPH – 18.0% below the speed limit
Compliance: 94%

Meadowlands Drive – near St. Gregory School Catholic School

Speed Limit: 40 KPH
Average Speed: 35 KPH – 12.5% below the speed limit
Compliance: 90%

Because, it turns out, people were so afraid of getting an automated speeding-ticket, they were creeping along WELL BELOW the speed limit. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but it makes any increase look like a much larger percent.

What are the numbers in May, 2026?

Longfields Drive

Speed Limit: 40 KPH
Average Speed: 39 KPH – 2.5% below the speed limit
Compliance: 50%

Innes Road

Speed Limit: 60 KPH
Average Speed: 64 KPH – 6.7% over the speed limit
Compliance: 33%

Bayshore Drive

Speed Limit: 40 KPH
Average Speed: 43 KPH – 7.5% over the speed limit
Compliance: 38%

Katimavik Road

Speed Limit: 40 KPH
Average Speed: 47 KPH – 17.5% over the speed limit
Compliance: 20%

Watters Drivel

Speed Limit: 40 KPH
Average Speed: 44 KPH – 10% over the speed limit
Compliance: 26%

Ogilvie Road

Speed Limit: 50 KPH
Average Speed: 50 KPH – 0.0% over the speed limit
Compliance: 48%

Smyth Road

Speed Limit: 50 KPH
Average Speed: 51 KPH – 2.0% over the speed limit
Compliance: 48%

Meadowlands Drive

Speed Limit: 40 KPH
Average Speed: 42 KPH – 5.0% over the speed limit
Compliance: 40%

Apart from Katimavik (which had an average speed of only 43 KPH last month, so I assume that there was some ‘Stunt Driving’ in May that pulled the average up), the speed has moved back up to what I would consider ‘normal’. Generally, 10% or less over the posted speed limit, depending on the conditions. This accounts for a gradual creep up in speed as drivers spend more time watching for pedestrians and cyclists than watching their speedometer. And 10% is what the rumoured threshold was for the Automated Speeding-Ticketing cameras.

Is there really a HUGE problem?

Likely not. Most people are just adjusting back to how they would normally drive – based on the posted speed limit and surrounding road conditions. That said, I do recognize that the speed limit compliance rates look low – and they are – because the average driver is going slightly above the limit. It would be interesting to know if those average speeds were also around the 85% compliance rate. I expect that they are close. And, of course, those being average speeds means that there are people driving too fast. The article mentions that along Katimavik, 11.3% of drivers in May were “High-Speed Drivers’ – which pulls the average speed up.

I do think that having a system of feed-back for drivers, whose speed may have crept up, is a good idea. Almost everyone would rather get a happy-face than a frowning emoji scowling at them.

[harls]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I do think that having a system of feed-back for drivers, whose speed may have crept up, is a good idea. Almost everyone would rather get a happy-face than a frowning emoji scowling at them.

They've got a few of those in Aylmer, and I'll admit I do feel bad when I see a frowny face.

Some even have a 'thumbs up' if you are under the speed limit.

There is still one of those rotating mobile speed cameras next to an elementary school on Plateau almost every other week. I am glad they make it extra visible because going over 30 in a school zone on a four lane boulevard is quite easy if you don't pay attention.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

The article mentions that along Katimavik, 11.3% of drivers in May were “High-Speed Drivers’ – which pulls the average speed up.

To me this is the biggest problem with removing the speed cameras. When they were in place, the percentage of "high-end speeders" at all the locations was very low; these numbers have jumped dramatically since the removal of the cameras.

[Richard Eade]

Absolutely! The variation in speed has, no doubt, widened. However, the average speed at the Katimavik site in April was only 43 KPH – so only 3 KPH over the speed limit. The jump up to 47 KPH, in May, could be a one-time thing, as a few cars join in for a ‘race’. Was there a school dance that month, for example, that could have led to ‘rowdy’ behaviour?

There are always going to be ebbs and flows in the average speed of a road. Granted, having an Automated Speeding-Ticketing camera pushed that average lower than the speed limit, but there were still tickets handed out. The article didn’t provide any comparison of the percentage of ‘higher-speed’ drivers (those traveling above the 85-percentile) during the camera period.

I think that Automated Speeding-Ticketing cameras are a relatively poor method of punishing bad driving behaviour. The tickets don’t appear until well after the offence, and may not be sent to the actual offender. The disconnection between the crime and punishment (nod to Fyodor Dostoevsky) tends to lessen the lesson. It becomes something that you just pay for, without the guilt of being caught by the police.

Although I, personally, like getting the ‘Happy Face’ when traveling at a safe speed, others might take digitized speed displays as a contest to see who can achieve the highest ‘score’. Maybe it is time to try something new. And I’m not just talking about putting up interactive LCD displays that get angrier and finger-wag as speeds increase; or give nods and a big ‘thumbs-up’ for lowering speeds. (Although I’d love those.)

How about trying NON-NEWTONIAN speed bumps/cushions? They can be engineered for specific speeds (but are affected by temperature), so they can affect only the high-speed drivers – and affect them immediately. This article from MAT Foundry Group is a nice introduction to speed bumps, humps, cushions, and the new non-Newtonian variety (with video):
https://www.matfoundrygroup.com/blog/The_Future_of_Roads_Liquid_Speed_Bumps

Because these would harden in the cold weather, they would be like so many of our other traffic-calming measures, and only put out during the warmer months (late spring, summer, and early autumn). Due to the construction of these bumps, they would be best applied to lower-traffic (residential) roads, to reduce wear.

The best option is police enforcement. The second best option is something that doesn't penalize everyone, but really nails excessive speed.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by TransitZilla

To me this is the biggest problem with removing the speed cameras. When they were in place, the percentage of "high-end speeders" at all the locations was very low; these numbers have jumped dramatically since the removal of the cameras.

This is really the crux of it. High end speeders in school zones really are dangerous, and they also make the area much less comfortable for people walking and cycling, which takes away alternative options. Speed cameras really were the answer for this. Realistically there is no level of police enforcement that can achieve a similar effect.

[skyscraperaccount]

Originally Posted by phil235

This is really the crux of it. High end speeders in school zones really are dangerous, and they also make the area much less comfortable for people walking and cycling, which takes away alternative options. Speed cameras really were the answer for this. Realistically there is no level of police enforcement that can achieve a similar effect.

I'm in favour of spring loaded bollards...besides stopping speeding instantly, maybe we'll catch a few not wearing seatbelts.

JokingNotJoking

[J.OT13]

Did we know Chamberlain might be realigned?

Chamberlain Re-Alignment Update



As many residents will know, work has been paused on the re-alignment of Chamberlain Avenue. The project was to shift Chamberlain to the north as it approached Bronson, connecting it with the Bronson off-ramp.

Unfortunately, due to the proximity of a city watermain, the Ministry of Transportation has paused the project, to ensure all proper precautions are taken before work continues. We have asked city staff to expedite meetings with the MTO in order to come to an agreement to get this project moving again.

This delay has allowed us to continue our discussions with city staff about greening the old Chamberlain Avenue, effectively expanding Glebe Memorial Park, once the re-alignment is complete.

Also, this is very dumb. Because drivers can't do tight turn, they are removing the protection for bikes and pedestrians.

Main-Greenfield Intersection Improvements





City crews were out making improvements to the Main-Greenfield intersection. In order to allow for better turning radiuses, the curb at the corner was reduced. This means that we were able to alter the traffic light programming, extending the right-turn signal from Main onto Greenfield, relieving some of the congestion we’ve recently been experiencing on Main.

We appreciate everyone’s patience as we worked with staff to get this work complete. We will be glad to see the intersection working better.

https://www.shawnmenard.ca/capital_ward_...it_this_summer_and_a_community_bike_ride

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Did we know Chamberlain might be realigned?

The City has been proposing variations on this idea for decades. Here's one from 1988:

"The current draft of the Regional Official Plan endorses the concept of forcing eastbound local and downtown traffic off the Queensway at Champagne Street onto a proposed westerly extension of Chamberlain Avenue through the Board of Education building and across Bronson Avenue."

https://glebereport.ca/wp-content/uploads/1988/12/Glebe_Report_1988_03_11_v17_n03.pdf

[ponyboycurtis]

I had always assumed they were going to realign Chamberlain when that building came down.

And how is that existing turning radius not sufficient? Is it really that important for a car to take the turn at 40 kph?? like.. the angle of the two roads aren't even 90 or less than.. the road opens up.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

I had always assumed they were going to realign Chamberlain when that building came down.

And how is that existing turning radius not sufficient? Is it really that important for a car to take the turn at 40 kph?? like.. the angle of the two roads aren't even 90 or less than.. the road opens up.

Yeah, Chamberlain makes sense now that the School Board/Coca-Cola bottling plant is gone. Somewhat sad we lost our two heritage bottling plants around the same time; Glue Pot Pub being the other, replaced with Claridge Moon, which obviously is an overall gain for the area.

Agreed on that intersection. Can't say I drive around there much, or ever, but I can't imagine congestion is that bad. It's the northern end of Main in what seems to be a quiet residential area. Greenfield goes to Lees, but I've never seen that much traffic to/from Greenfield from Lees. Pedestrians and cyclist had made a decent gain, and now that's been lost so we don't slow down cars too much, putting pedestrians and cyclists at risk again. Very backwards move.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Also, this is very dumb. Because drivers can't do tight turn, they are removing the protection for bikes and pedestrians.



https://www.shawnmenard.ca/capital_ward_...it_this_summer_and_a_community_bike_ride

What a joke. "better turning radius"? That whole explanation makes no sense. And how does it help alter the traffic light programming?

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Did we know Chamberlain might be realigned?

This was always part of the MTO plan, and the redo of the Bronson/Offramp intersection has been setup to accommodate. I heard of the delay a while ago, but I don;t recall exactly where.

Interestingly, traffic on southbound Bronson will still have to to past the ramp to turn left as they do now and then come back up onto Chamberlain. We'll see how many people try to make the illegal left at the offramp in the final config.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Catenary

This was always part of the MTO plan, and the redo of the Bronson/Offramp intersection has been setup to accommodate. I heard of the delay a while ago, but I don;t recall exactly where.

Interestingly, traffic on southbound Bronson will still have to to past the ramp to turn left as they do now and then come back up onto Chamberlain. We'll see how many people try to make the illegal left at the offramp in the final config.

Latest information is that the realignment will happen next year following some underground work (I think sewer, but can’t remember the details). So probably 2028.

That left turn thing is unbelievably stupid. Without it you could eliminate that entire slip lane and create a new lot for development. But they worry about cars backing up through the Catherine intersection. Or people could just follow the rules of the road and not block it.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by phil235

That left turn thing is unbelievably stupid. Without it you could eliminate that entire slip lane and create a new lot for development. But they worry about cars backing up through the Catherine intersection. Or people could just follow the rules of the road and not block it.

I think the issue is lack of space under the 417 bridge for a southbound left-turn lane.

[OTownandDown]

I was at the intersection of Richmond and Golden yesterday, right at the foot of Byron Linear Park (Where the farmers market is on the weekends).

Aside from partially complete reconstruction of the intersection that's been sitting, unfinished, and no work occurring for the last two months (a mess of unfinished gravel/bike lanes/upturned signage/ unfinished curb mess...

It was raining quite heavily, and ALL of the pedestrian crosswalks were lakes. The roads were un-puddled, however there was 4-5" of water on EVERY crosswalk of that intersection. Like, perfectly aligned rectangles of water at each crosswalk. A brand new intersection.

WTF.

Are the lakes a deficiency that is going to be corrected by the Contractor/negotiated with the Contractor/whoopsie-daisy by the City, and thus work is stopped?