Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW)

[golfguy9]

I have a friend who recently flew to the UK from YUL and was complaining about how he had to pay $200 (I think) to leave his car there for the week. He lives in Rockland so you could make the case that Montreal isn't very far but I find it hard to believe flights would be that much cheaper to justify the parking cost.

Similarly, my family is Italian, and most of the time when they fly to Italy they will have another family member drive them to YUL. I'm not sure if it's a cultural thing because that's how relatives would come visit 30 years ago when flight options were more limited but it's like they don't even consider flying from YOW even if the flight was only say $50 more expensive. It could also be some people don't like connecting?


On another note, a Hyundai 737 BBJ landed here this evening - probably something defense related.

[BlackRedGold]

Originally Posted by golfguy9

I have a friend who recently flew to the UK from YUL and was complaining about how he had to pay $200 (I think) to leave his car there for the week. He lives in Rockland so you could make the case that Montreal isn't very far but I find it hard to believe flights would be that much cheaper to justify the parking cost.

It depends how many people are traveling together. If it's a family of 4 or more, it doesn't take much to swing the value proposition in favour of paying extra for parking. It's not like Ottawa's parking is that cheap and if you're in Rockland you're likely not taking a cab or public transit to the airport.

And if the costs are relatively close, having a direct flight is preferable to connecting considering the chances of delays or cancellations.

[dougvdh]

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold

It depends how many people are traveling together. If it's a family of 4 or more, it doesn't take much to swing the value proposition in favour of paying extra for parking. It's not like Ottawa's parking is that cheap and if you're in Rockland you're likely not taking a cab or public transit to the airport.

And if the costs are relatively close, having a direct flight is preferable to connecting considering the chances of delays or cancellations.

I recently traveled to Italy for a couple weeks with my family (4 people). The most cost effective (and shortest travel time) option flying out of Montreal and using Orleans Express buses to get from Ottawa to Montreal and back.

The bus for 4 people was actually cheaper than parking in Montreal for 2 weeks.

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 85 - including a TS charter to YQB on a A332 - listed as gate 12A on the FIDS = I guess real gate #11, but incorrectly listed as heading to YYZ - I'm guessing it's a domestic troop charter

Today's cancellation count (so far): 2

I just noticed that TS 156 YOW-YUL is blocked at 55 minutes. I've done YYZ-YOW faster than that many times.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

I’ll take your word for it because I don’t work in the industry. But I don’t know, something tells me 5% is substantial for an airport where carriers are concentrating all their equipment in to try and fill flights. Especially reading all the comments on these forums how profit these days are tight.

As someone who works in the industry, the probability of YUL losing 5% of its flights to YOW is about 0 at least in short and medium term. MET airport is a bigger domestic threat.

Tight margins help Air Canada (and its hubs) over smaller cities and airlines (like Porter). They can handle tight margins for larger and can concentrate operations and work with suppliers. Nothing will be pretty about the financials of airlines this year but AC is best suited in Canada. Multiple hubs, large corporate contracts, and easy access to Europe.

In times like this, Air Transat, Porter and Flair will have an outsized impact compared to Westjet and AC. That is the nature of downturns in aviation.

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Today’s departure count: 85 - including a TS charter to YQB on a A332 - listed as gate 12A on the FIDS = I guess real gate #11, but incorrectly listed as heading to YYZ - I'm guessing it's a domestic troop charter

Today's cancellation count (so far): 2

I just noticed that TS 156 YOW-YUL is blocked at 55 minutes. I've done YYZ-YOW faster than that many times.

Gate 12A is still gate 12, just blocks gate 13 (would board from gate 13B on the domestic side). The inbound arrived from RIX (Riga).



Today is the first Tuesday LGW flight + YUL feeder so now TS is up to their max of 3x weekly on that route. Both previous feeders have been the same frame operating YOW-YUL and YUL-YOW, I'm curious the loads on those feeder flights and why they opted to keep it on Sunday/Tuesday but not Friday.

Today is also the first day with Rouge 7M8s appearing on YOW-YYZ - three round trips in total, all operated by FIN 525. Only two turns tomorrow on it, but then from Thursday it appears pretty consistently to be 4/10 turns. Some days in July I see up to 7/10 turns on the aircraft.

Originally Posted by golfguy9

I have a friend who recently flew to the UK from YUL and was complaining about how he had to pay $200 (I think) to leave his car there for the week. He lives in Rockland so you could make the case that Montreal isn't very far but I find it hard to believe flights would be that much cheaper to justify the parking cost.

Similarly, my family is Italian, and most of the time when they fly to Italy they will have another family member drive them to YUL. I'm not sure if it's a cultural thing because that's how relatives would come visit 30 years ago when flight options were more limited but it's like they don't even consider flying from YOW even if the flight was only say $50 more expensive. It could also be some people don't like connecting?

Yeah my Italian relatives have been flying from Montreal as far back as the Mirabel days (my dad remembers picking up my grandfather once and saw the Alitalia rep wait for the customs officers to clear everything before bringing out more bags from the back that contained meat and cheese, but I digress...). I really do think FCO would be a home run from YOW. Popular tourist spot, somewhat sizable diaspora here. It's too bad that it's probably a touch too far for the TS 321LRs.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Today’s departure count: 85 - including a TS charter to YQB on a A332 - listed as gate 12A on the FIDS = I guess real gate #11, but incorrectly listed as heading to YYZ - I'm guessing it's a domestic troop charter

Today's cancellation count (so far): 2

I just noticed that TS 156 YOW-YUL is blocked at 55 minutes. I've done YYZ-YOW faster than that many times.

Troop charter came in from Riga and used an actual gate to clear customs today. There must have been gate space for them to do this, otherwise they unload at the Canada welcome centre area, as they did this past Friday (also from Riga on an AT A330).

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Today’s departure count: 85 - including a TS charter to YQB on a A332 - listed as gate 12A on the FIDS = I guess real gate #11, but incorrectly listed as heading to YYZ - I'm guessing it's a domestic troop charter

Today's cancellation count (so far): 2

I just noticed that TS 156 YOW-YUL is blocked at 55 minutes. I've done YYZ-YOW faster than that many times.

Yes.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

Gate 12A is still gate 12, just blocks gate 13 (would board from gate 13B on the domestic side). The inbound arrived from RIX (Riga).



Today is the first Tuesday LGW flight + YUL feeder so now TS is up to their max of 3x weekly on that route. Both previous feeders have been the same frame operating YOW-YUL and YUL-YOW, I'm curious the loads on those feeder flights and why they opted to keep it on Sunday/Tuesday but not Friday.

Today is also the first day with Rouge 7M8s appearing on YOW-YYZ - three round trips in total, all operated by FIN 525. Only two turns tomorrow on it, but then from Thursday it appears pretty consistently to be 4/10 turns. Some days in July I see up to 7/10 turns on the aircraft.



Yeah my Italian relatives have been flying from Montreal as far back as the Mirabel days (my dad remembers picking up my grandfather once and saw the Alitalia rep wait for the customs officers to clear everything before bringing out more bags from the back that contained meat and cheese, but I digress...). I really do think FCO would be a home run from YOW. Popular tourist spot, somewhat sizable diaspora here. It's too bad that it's probably a touch too far for the TS 321LRs.

Oh right 12A, just like 12 is 13B, as is gate 11 on the non-transborder side. So in all likelihood, only some troops got off at YOW and the rest went to YQB. Unlikely they customs cleared the YQB bound troops at YOW.

Not sure if this was mentioned, but for the first time in years, YOW released cargo statistics handling 29,000 tonnes in 2025: https://obj.ca/yow-touts-room-to-grow-attract-airlines-hub-of-choice/

I thought today was the first day of regular rouge 7M8 YYZ ops but wasn’t sure.

While the LR might possibly be out of range to FCO, their four XLRs on order certainly would be.

[fanofYOW]

^ The XLR TS is going to get would be great here. I think it was pushed to 2027 for their first delivery if I am not mistaken, and if I recall correctly, they have about 5 (?) LR still grounded due to P&W engine issues. They expect that to be fully resolved next year so there is going to be a lot of slack in their fleet soon. Good news for YOW I hope.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

I listened to the whole thing and yet again OAA is re-emphasizing the issues with YUL leakage. This is a massive drawback for YOW. They said they estimate 500-750k pax per year are driving to YUL, which is a much larger number than I expected (expectation of around 200-400k).

If YEG was able to get a couple more direct flights from stopping ~19k folks from driving to YYC 16 years ago, I cannot even fathom the results if all 750k stop the driving here. But yet according to some, we cannot blame the “lack of demand” on YUL. If anything, YUL is benefitting from Ottawa residents. I wonder how much service cuts they would see without the leakage from Ottawa..

Also, TS said they are looking at Ottawa as RomanR mentioned. They can’t mention what else is coming, “yet”. Reading between the lines, it shows TS wants to make Ottawa what WS has made YHZ, I hope.

Another interesting point I found fascinating is that OAA have been talking to AF for ~6 years before its launch in 2023. Meaning the article I read during the pandemic about how YOW was so close to a Paris route taking off was AF. I thought it was AC at the time. Go figure.

Calgary and Edmonton are 3-4 hours apart. Two hours is a much smaller impediment to driving to an airport, plus there are decent bus options and train options of sorts. One thing that would help would be to get rid of the anti-trust exemptions for airline alliances. If Lufthansa had to compete they would have an incentive to fly to Ottawa.

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 87

Today's cancellation count (so far): 0

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Calgary and Edmonton are 3-4 hours apart. Two hours is a much smaller impediment to driving to an airport, plus there are decent bus options and train options of sorts. One thing that would help would be to get rid of the anti-trust exemptions for airline alliances. If Lufthansa had to compete they would have an incentive to fly to Ottawa.

That's beyond the Ottawa Airport Authorities power. And anti-trust immunized JVs are basically the norm between all the major governments. I think the alliances would struggle without them. Not that I don't think you're right on the principle.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Calgary and Edmonton are 3-4 hours apart. Two hours is a much smaller impediment to driving to an airport, plus there are decent bus options and train options of sorts. One thing that would help would be to get rid of the anti-trust exemptions for airline alliances. If Lufthansa had to compete they would have an incentive to fly to Ottawa.

Calgary to Edmonton are 3 hours apart, downtown to downtown. The airports are 2 hours apart driving.

If you are south of Edmonton (which half the population is), its 2.5 hours to get to Calgary airport. Its further in Alberta, but not drastically.

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 90

Today's cancellation count (so far): 1

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Today’s departure count: 90

Today's cancellation count (so far): 1

Yesterday's AC889 (on a 789) was 19/30 J and full in PY. AC888 was 27/30 J and 14/21 PY. Today's AC889 was 10/24 PY and 25/31 J, and tonight's AC888 is 29/31 J and 18/24 PY.

If anybody wants to be on both directions of the inaugural YDF next week, you can book a basic round trip for $220 right now with an overnight in Deer Lake.

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 89

Today's cancellation count (so far): 2 - one of which is an AC flight number change and tail swap to YFC - getting a CR9 today

[solo748]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

Generally speaking, business travellers want the opposite. They want lots of frequency and every booking metric confirms this. The one with the most frequency wins corporate accounts, and right now AC is still holding this in Eastern Canada

I'd agree freq rules for cities w lots of corp travel but Ottawa is far from that. The breadth of destinations is every bit as important in a city like Ottawa
eg, Few days of meetings in Victoria this week and cannot tell you how delightful it was to fly non stop. Winds were light Monday, gate to gate in Victoria <5hrs. Easily saved 2.5 hours of valuable sleep time vs the 5am AC YOWYVR connecting to YYJ
Westbound load was 80% Monday, 70% yesterday coming back
Incredibly, some of my colleagues still elected to connect on AC. That's what PD is up against and why they need to feed YOW while the locals come to their senses and realize how much more civilized and valuable non-stop service is vs aeropesos and stale croissants in the MLL

Originally Posted by Dominion301

While the LR might possibly be out of range to FCO, their four XLRs on order certainly would be.

You're certain a 200-seat XLR is good for 9.5hours wheels up out of Rome mid afternoon on a hot, summer day to YOW?

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by solo748

I'd agree freq rules for cities w lots of corp travel but Ottawa is far from that. The breadth of destinations is every bit as important in a city like Ottawa
eg, Few days of meetings in Victoria this week and cannot tell you how delightful it was to fly non stop. Winds were light Monday, gate to gate in Victoria <5hrs. Easily saved 2.5 hours of valuable sleep time vs the 5am AC YOWYVR connecting to YYJ
Westbound load was 80% Monday, 70% yesterday coming back
Incredibly, some of my colleagues still elected to connect on AC. That's what PD is up against and why they need to feed YOW while the locals come to their senses and realize how much more civilized and valuable non-stop service is vs aeropesos and stale croissants in the MLL


You're certain a 200-seat XLR is good for 9.5hours wheels up out of Rome mid afternoon on a hot, summer day to YOW?

Ottawa to Rome is very doable on the XLR, but would be one of the longest XLR flights in the world. That is likley just fantasy and for AC they would rather connect you in Toronto, Montreal or Frankfurt in the future over putting an XLR in Ottawa for that route.

[RomanR27]

Transat is running NCE-YUL with a 1500 departure this summer on the 321LR. FCO-YOW is about 600km longer in great circle distance. Rome has a mean high about 3 degrees higher than Nice. The published range of the XLR is 1300km higher than the LR. If, in practice, the XLR can't handle an extra 600km in 3° higher temps over an LR, it's hard to see what the point of the aircraft is.