[Saint John] Port Development

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

True but how many Construction cranes are above Saint John right now?

Halifax has at least 40+ and has had that amount for the last five years and will into the future. Here is to Saint John growing the City as much as the Port and to the midterms settling our American differences.

I can count 8 of the top of my head. Love that Halifax is doing awesome, especially as a former resident. I’m particularly excited about the Dartmouth side - I’m starting to compare it to Edmonton. In the hopper for uptown Saint John is 1x16 story; 2x17 story; 2x20++ stories, among several other projects announced and to be announced. I’d say that’s pretty good for a city of 145,000. Saint John isn’t the laggard many people think it is - it’s leading NB in capital investment this year, and that’s before possibly the largest single private industrial sector investment in Maritime history at $2,000,000,000 being the Spruce Lake AI Data Centre Hub. Then in the pipeline are nuclear projects since we have the nuclear energy ecosystem.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Does anyone know if Americold was built to be scaleable? 100% booked before even opening is a big jolt of confidence in the project.

It's turning out to be a really successful project and a nice boost to local employment.

Do you mean like a further expansion of the footprint? I don't think there is any space left without sacrificing their access. Crosbys and the ferry to the south and the rail tracks to the north eat up the remaining room. Unless they want to infill Pier 12/13. Envision will love that idea.

I wonder if they are open to another location in the industrial park rather than directly adjacent to the port.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

True but how many Construction cranes are above Saint John right now?

Halifax has at least 40+ and has had that amount for the last five years and will into the future. Here is to Saint John growing the City as much as the Port and to the midterms settling our American differences.

Highrises aren't the beginning and end of a city's measure. We could have talked about geography, about how deep water inevitably reshapes the balance between our ports. But that discussion clearly isn't for today—your crane census virtually conceded the port front without even an apology. I was genuinely hoping for a decades-long, dragged-out rivalry over tonnage, TEUs, big ships, bigger terminals, and who commands the deeper channel. On those fronts I require total honesty in data. We're going to keep our eye on the target because that's how you get to your goal. Again, thank you for the crane tally.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

Here are the actual container volume trends. These charts speak clearly to what has been going on.

Port of Halifax 2022-April 2026


Port of Saint John 2022-April 2026


Halifax's landed imports have remained flat over this entire period. Saint John's landed imports have grown steadily and now EXCEED Halifax's on a monthly basis.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. It’s no longer a question of if, but rather, when will Port Saint John surpass the Port of Halifax as a container port.


This doesn’t mean Halifax won’t also surpass a million TEUs, as there’s all kinds of room for growth at both the Port of Halifax and Port Saint John. If Carney delivers on his ambitious vision to radically increase levels of Canadian-European trade, then the ports of Saint John and Halifax could both become multi million TEU container ports.

I just think it’s inevitable that Saint John will surpass Halifax in container shipping, as Saint John simply has the better location for being an entry/exit port into/out of the North American market, no matter how much the Halifax economy and population grows.

The cranes we need to be especially worried about counting are the ones at the port. Clearly, there’s room for quite a few more cranes at the West Side Docks, and room for inner harbour expansion through some relatively minor land reclamation projects like infilling the space between Rodney Pier and the derelict pier jutting out from the now Americold site. And there’s always the looming question of the AIM site, which could be far better utilized by the port and its partners.

Really though, the biggest opportunity for port expansion is out at Lorneville. Investing in a deepwater container port in the outer harbour at Lorneville could prove to be the single most transformative project in the history of Saint John.

The Spruce Lake Industrial Park would be directly connected to a deepwater container port at Lorneville, and could be a prime location for manufacturing, warehouses, and many other profitable ventures.

It would be nice to see government take the lead and try and change the conversation here. Instead of the conversation being dominated by misinformation and conjecture on both sides of the AI data centre debate, the Holt government could step up and present Carney a multi billion dollar project of national interest for inner and outer harbour expansion at Port Saint John, to better connect the Canadian and European economies. The Inner Harbour can’t really handle the absolute largest of container ships, but an outer harbour deepwater container port would be able to accommodate the biggest container ships in the world today.

Yet, so far, the province hasn’t pushed for any concrete expansion plans for Port Saint John, and we haven’t even seen their plan to “fix Simms Corner” yet. Susan Holt better have a much grander plan up her sleeve for Port Saint John, or I’ll have a serious case of voters remorse.

Carney essentially never shuts up about big, ambitious projects to invest in transforming the Canadian economy. Tim Houston wants to build offshore wind capacity to power a third of Canada. Susan Holt wants to revive a mine?

Sometimes it feels like Susan Holt didn’t read the instructions of her assignment properly… the PM has been calling for big, transformative projects. Yet, NB hasn’t publicized a single transformative project of national interest other the Sisson mine project, which wouldn’t be nearly as transformative to the Canadian economy as inner and outer harbour expansion at Port Saint John… or as Doug Ford now calls it… Ontario’s Port.

[Taeolas]

I have to wonder, with both ports growing like this, if there's more pressure on the rail lines to invest and improve in the Maritime rail network. SJ's port isn't as constrained since it has a direct rail link into the states, but I'm sure Halifax is feeling the constraints of the lines through NB.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

as Doug Ford now calls it… Ontario’s Port.

Well. well, well..... Doug Ford and I agree on something. The odds makers are taking another beating tonight.

[RaginRonic]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

Well. well, well..... Doug Ford and I agree on something. The odds makers are taking another beating tonight.

Did you know that Ford engaged in illegal activity before entering politics? With some in Ontario calling him 'Drug Ford'?

Doesn't that disqualify him, and his base, from any political involvement anywhere in Canada? Just asking for a friend.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by RaginRonic

Doesn't that disqualify him, and his base, from any political involvement anywhere in Canada? Just asking for a friend.

The evidence of three democratic elections would suggest NO

Also, persons with a criminal record are not prohibited from running for or holding elected office in Canada. So, even if he had been convicted of drug offences, the answer to your friend's question would still be "NO"

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by RaginRonic

Did you know that Ford engaged in illegal activity before entering politics? With some in Ontario calling him 'Drug Ford'?

Doesn't that disqualify him, and his base, from any political involvement anywhere in Canada? Just asking for a friend.

I've heard rumours, I've heard rumours, and no.

My comment was an attestation to the fact that I rarely, if ever, have been on the same side of any opinion Doug Ford has expressed. Need I state that some other way? I certainly don't want to waste any time diving into that rabbit hole.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

I am just wondering if there is any activity indicating that Americold is up yet. Their official opening is in June but I would expect to see some business type activity before that.

An Americold employee posted a video on LinkedIn today. It looks very recent, probably from this week, based on how green it is. Here is a screenshot from that below.

It looks like it is not quite ready, but very close.

[bingun]

First update on this I have seen in a long time, but it doesn't sound like it's getting sorted out anytime soon.

Province argues for AIM lawsuits to be scrapped

https://tj.news/saint-john-south/province-argues-for-aim-lawsuits-to-be-scrapped

Lawyers Mark Heighton and Lara Greenough represented the province, with Heighton arguing that only the lawsuit over the denied renewal is still a live issue, since the operating approval for the equipment and salvage dealer’s licence for the site were set to expire in 2024, making those lawsuits moot.

He denied a claim from AIM that the province dragged its feet producing documents, saying it wasn’t required to do so without a production order and it did consent and provide the documents. He noted that the firm waited to submit the the shredder approval lawsuit until almost the last possible moment, and also waited months to submit the second lawsuit over the salvage licence, with no application for a stay or interim order before it expired in June 2024.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Would be sure nice if Carney’s Liberals show us just how quick and focussed they are at cutting through red tape and promoting major development of our ports. Allowing more than 25 acres of portfront land to remain undeveloped due to legal limbo isn’t exactly living up to their campaign promises and their purported economic mandate to develop our ports. The feds must have the leverage here, and they should be using every method possible to put pressure on Herb Black and AIM to settle and move on from their bulk scrap operations at Port Saint John.

Mark Carney hasn’t visited Saint John or the the port since early in the 2025 campaign… it would sure be nice for his next visit to coincide with an announcement on the end of the AIM saga, along with some ambitious plans for further port expansion at Canada’s third largest port, and in both its inner, and outer harbours!

[sailor734]

I assume AIM is still making it's lease payments to the port for this site? Strange situation.

[paperplane]

Isn't there like 30 years left on their lease?

And Herb Black is so litigious things are stalled as it is, imagine if the Port terminated the lease, there'd be 30 years of lawsuits and/or the Port wouldn't want to pay the sums of money he'd want to terminate.

Seems like the only option is DPW pays Herb a ridiculous amount of money and/or Carney, otherwise, it's playing the 30-year long game...

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by paperplane

Isn't there like 30 years left on their lease?

And Herb Black is so litigious things are stalled as it is, imagine if the Port terminated the lease, there'd be 30 years of lawsuits and/or the Port wouldn't want to pay the sums of money he'd want to terminate.

Seems like the only option is DPW pays Herb a ridiculous amount of money and/or Carney, otherwise, it's playing the 30-year long game...

I read somewhere it was a 40 year lease expiring in 2042. I would assume he is within his rights to keep the property as long as he meets the terms of the lease. I'm sure the port has examined the lease from every angle looking for a possible out.

[paperplane]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I read somewhere it was a 40 year lease expiring in 2042. I would assume he is within his rights to keep the property as long as he meets the terms of the lease. I'm sure the port has examined the lease from every angle looking for a possible out.

Well, 16 years is better than 30...but yeah, I think it's going to be a long drawn out process that will go the distance, unless someone backs up the money truck for Herb, and even then he'd likely draw that out too.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by paperplane

Isn't there like 30 years left on their lease?

And Herb Black is so litigious things are stalled as it is, imagine if the Port terminated the lease, there'd be 30 years of lawsuits and/or the Port wouldn't want to pay the sums of money he'd want to terminate.

Seems like the only option is DPW pays Herb a ridiculous amount of money and/or Carney, otherwise, it's playing the 30-year long game...

it's not a 30 year long game. It's 16 years and DPW signed a 30 year lease knowing that AIM had a lease until 2042. DPW re-upped to 60 years with the facts being what they currently are right now. I don't know why DPW would pay any exorbitant amount of money when they probably have first dibs on that lot if they want it after Herb/AIM either runs out of cash or contract. In fact, Herb might be doing DPW a favour. He's essentially keeping that site off the market, reserving it for DPW, while DPW has the pressure reduced on them to fill that 1M TEU capacity. AIM is paying the carrying costs on land that has no other buyer. You'd have a hard time finding me DPW's argument for wanting Herb gone right now.

The smartest thing DPW could say right now is, "Herb who?" while they let Herb's clock run out. The favour he's doing them is immense, even if it's entirely unintentional.

Don't hold your breath waiting for any politician to pay him off either. There's no political capital reward for that. There's no pot of gold for Herb's investment in lawyers and time. AIM still has liability for what happens on that site until 2042. I have to assume they paid for all the remediation on that lot. If this is all still status quo in 2042, Herb has wasted a ton of money making a few lawyers rich and zero to show for it. Don't even consider any payout to AIM until that 1M TEU capacity is used up. The only other pressure to settle this would be if there was a large federal grant with a short best before date. That's not on the table so no hurry. The capacity at the port is 1M TEU's. That's an average of 3000 TEU/day. The entire intermodal business is in a slump this year from geopolitical stupidity. Until that gets put to bed, especially, don't expect any movement on that file. H-L and CMA CGM missed in Q1 so let Herb keep paying all he wants for now. At least he's not blowing anything up, or even disturbing the sleep of local residents.

[paperplane]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

it's not a 30 year long game. It's 16 years and DPW signed a 30 year lease knowing that AIM had a lease until 2042. DPW re-upped to 60 years with the facts being what they currently are right now. I don't know why DPW would pay any exorbitant amount of money when they probably have first dibs on that lot if they want it after Herb/AIM either runs out of cash or contract. In fact, Herb might be doing DPW a favour. He's essentially keeping that site off the market, reserving it for DPW, while DPW has the pressure reduced on them to fill that 1M TEU capacity. AIM is paying the carrying costs on land that has no other buyer. You'd have a hard time finding me DPW's argument for wanting Herb gone right now.

The smartest thing DPW could say right now is, "Herb who?" while they let Herb's clock run out. The favour he's doing them is immense, even if it's entirely unintentional.

Don't hold your breath waiting for any politician to pay him off either. There's no political capital reward for that. There's no pot of gold for Herb's investment in lawyers and time. AIM still has liability for what happens on that site until 2042. I have to assume they paid for all the remediation on that lot. If this is all still status quo in 2042, Herb has wasted a ton of money making a few lawyers rich and zero to show for it. Don't even consider any payout to AIM until that 1M TEU capacity is used up. The only other pressure to settle this would be if there was a large federal grant with a short best before date. That's not on the table so no hurry. The capacity at the port is 1M TEU's. That's an average of 3000 TEU/day. The entire intermodal business is in a slump this year from geopolitical stupidity. Until that gets put to bed, especially, don't expect any movement on that file. H-L and CMA CGM missed in Q1 so let Herb keep paying all he wants for now. At least he's not blowing anything up, or even disturbing the sleep of local residents.

Great points, thanks!

I also heard another rumour that the Port/DP World wants to expand to 12 cranes all the way to Lowell Street and move the Digby Ferry elsewhere (? Lorneville).

It'd be interesting to posture what the Port's super longterm plans are for the West side and Lorneville are...

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by paperplane

Great points, thanks!

I also heard another rumour that the Port/DP World wants to expand to 12 cranes all the way to Lowell Street and move the Digby Ferry elsewhere (? Lorneville).

It'd be interesting to posture what the Port's super longterm plans are for the West side and Lorneville are...

I wouldn't mind seeing the Digby ferry come back to Long Wharf like it was a long time ago, although I doubt anyone has the stomach for the cost of the infrastructure upgrades required. Would be cool to see the passengers come and go right from the core of SJ, and have pedestrian access for residents of the Annapolis Valley to pop into Uptown for the day or for events in the city. Probably just as good - or better - for the volume of truck traffic on the ferry too, rather than driving through Lower West.

[J81]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

I have to wonder, with both ports growing like this, if there's more pressure on the rail lines to invest and improve in the Maritime rail network. SJ's port isn't as constrained since it has a direct rail link into the states, but I'm sure Halifax is feeling the constraints of the lines through NB.

What constraints are you referring to? I dont know why you think this? There is one intermodal train per day in and out of Halifax. There is lots of capacity left to add trains between Halifax and Montreal and beyond. In fact, there has been quite a few extra trains this spring.

Having said that, there has been talk for at least 12-15 years of extending 2 sidings on the Napadogan sub to 12-16000ft but nothing has happened to this point.