Planning underway for new commuter ferry between Bedford and Halifax

[Keith P.]

The fixation by HRM the Good on electric ferries will make this project far more expensive than it needs to be.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

The Mill Cove planning survey closed yesterday. Hopefully everyone got a chance to complete the survey. I'm posting the response to one of the FAQs from the site. I'm happy to see the third bullet but I wonder how some of the other bullets aren't just essentially prescribed based on results of the third bullet. Would we really purposely design an area so that the expensive infrastructure would be under utilized?

Mill Cove FAQ by A.J. Forsythe, on Flickr

[someone123]

Is that in Piraeus? I found it really interesting how many ferries they have serving the islands in Greece and it was fun just to walk around there looking at them all. There must be dozens of ferry routes. However, many are regional ferries that travel hundreds of km rather than transit ferries for commuters.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The fixation by HRM the Good on electric ferries will make this project far more expensive than it needs to be.

It's a valid question but to answer it you need to look at operating costs, the value of hitting federal climate goals, and federal funding. It's not enough to point out that capital costs would be lower if they dropped the electric requirement.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

It is Piraeus. This particular ferry caught my eye because it was so much smaller than all the others. All ports in Greece seem to have a multitude of ferries which makes sense given the large number of Islands the country has. If only we could have one or two of their cast offs.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Province to use Expropriations Act for Mill Cove ferry land

[OldDartmouthMark]

Quotes from above article:

Progress on the $269M project has been stalled by protracted land negotiations

The Nova Scotia government is using the Expropriations Act to acquire six properties in the Bedford area required for the Mill Cove ferry service and CN overpass project.

Cabinet signed off on an order-in-council dated Tuesday that identifies the six properties, all owned by United Gulf Developments.

They include two water lots — one assessed at $1.57 million and the other at $1.03 million — along with pieces of land ranging in assessed value from $52,500 to about $164,000.

“Expropriation is not our preferred approach,” Public Works spokesperson Gary Andrea said in a statement Thursday.
“We have been negotiating with the company that owns the land for multiple years.”

In a statement Friday, the president of United Gulf said he "remains open to further discussions and a fair, market-based resolution."

"While we support infrastructure that improves mobility and reduces congestion in Bedford, important for the community and the region’s long-term growth, expropriation should be a last resort — not a substitute for meaningful negotiation," said Navid Saberi.

"We look forward to engaging constructively and expect a process that reflects the value of the lands and our long-standing investment in Bedford."

Not sure why we should expect further negotiations to be successful, considering that this has been dragging on and delaying the ferry service for years. It’s just my opinion, but to me it sounds like the fact that this land is needed for the ferry has possibly driven up the price, and put the developers in a perceived position where they could potentially hold the land hostage against the ferry project, until they get their price. If that’s the case, it seems like it would be the ideal situation for expropriation to occur. The entire area, including other properties likely owned by the developer, will benefit from this service, and in my opinion a common perception would be that the benefit to the public should outweigh their apparent desire to gain potential increased profits from their “negotiations “…

Let’s hope that it works out the best possible way for all parties involved, so that the city can benefit from its new ferry service ASAP.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Quotes from above article:



Not sure why we should expect further negotiations to be successful, considering that this has been dragging on and delaying the ferry service for years. It’s just my opinion, but to me it sounds like the fact that this land is needed for the ferry has possibly driven up the price, and put the developers in a perceived position where they could potentially hold the land hostage against the ferry project, until they get their price. If that’s the case, it seems like it would be the ideal situation for expropriation to occur. The entire area, including other properties likely owned by the developer, will benefit from this service, and in my opinion a common perception would be that the benefit to the public should outweigh their apparent desire to gain potential increased profits from their “negotiations “…

Let’s hope that it works out the best possible way for all parties involved, so that the city can benefit from its new ferry service ASAP.

United Gulf is also the so called developer of the former Texpark that has sat fallow for decades and nothing has happened there despite the so called development announcement. Two years and nothing but a retired parking lot and some hoarding.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

United Gulf is also the so called developer of the former Texpark that has sat fallow for decades and nothing has happened there despite the so called development announcement. Two years and nothing but a retired parking lot and some hoarding.

Understatement of the year would be for me to say that I am not impressed with how that site has been handled over the years.

[kzt79]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

United Gulf is also the so called developer of the former Texpark that has sat fallow for decades and nothing has happened there despite the so called development announcement. Two years and nothing but a retired parking lot and some hoarding.

My earliest awareness of the Halifax "development community" arose from the initial drama around that site when I was a university student >2 decades ago.

I expect I will still be following further drama around the same (empty) site into my old age. It is truly impressive, especially in context of how much development and growth has taken place in the rest of the city.

[ArchAficionado]

Pretty sure they have permits out for the foundation work on that site now, so things should start (finally) moving. I would expect a pretty slow roll though. Doubt that the project will be completed before 2030.

It speaks less to the poor behaviour of the developer and more to the broken incentives in this and many other cities that a sandlot can sit empty in the middle of a downtown for so long. I mean, I'm almost 30 years old and I have no living memory of this "texpark" to which older members refer. For basically my whole life this has been a gravel lot. It's been empty so long they had to remove mature trees from the site when they began prep.

I expect this developer to put up quite the fuss with this bedford lot sale. They should definitely expropriate and just get on with it. Otherwise, he'll probably hold the project hostage trying to get a windfall (opportunism).

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by kzt79

My earliest awareness of the Halifax "development community" arose from the initial drama around that site when I was a university student >2 decades ago.

I expect I will still be following further drama around the same (empty) site into my old age. It is truly impressive, especially in context of how much development and growth has taken place in the rest of the city.

Totally! The 'Twisted Sisters' era feels like it never was truly resolved.

This was an iconic era for this forum. There wasn't much to post about - the UG saga, Gladstone Ridge, and Armoury Square.

Henry House was the forum's unofficial meet up spot.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by ArchAficionado

I expect this developer to put up quite the fuss with this bedford lot sale. They should definitely expropriate and just get on with it. Otherwise, he'll probably hold the project hostage trying to get a windfall (opportunism).

He must be ancient at this point! But, I totally agree. We've had enough of the developers playing games, which isn't made any better by the obstructionists.

Things have gotten better over the years, but think of the potential for such sites and infrastructure. I recall when Watts was trying to hold up the Bayers Road widening... even though it was going to make public transit flows better. Wild times.

There should be some accountability for these things on the public record. I know some people on here don't like that, but using public office for your own personal views is simply not democratic! They should all be ashamed! Absolute muppets!

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by ArchAficionado

Pretty sure they have permits out for the foundation work on that site now, so things should start (finally) moving. I would expect a pretty slow roll though. Doubt that the project will be completed before 2030.

It speaks less to the poor behaviour of the developer and more to the broken incentives in this and many other cities that a sandlot can sit empty in the middle of a downtown for so long. I mean, I'm almost 30 years old and I have no living memory of this "texpark" to which older members refer. For basically my whole life this has been a gravel lot. It's been empty so long they had to remove mature trees from the site when they began prep.

I expect this developer to put up quite the fuss with this bedford lot sale. They should definitely expropriate and just get on with it. Otherwise, he'll probably hold the project hostage trying to get a windfall (opportunism).

Here's a decent pic from sometime in the 1980s:


https://archive.halifax.ca/archive/final...ord=01153884-027e-4b17-9630-d29581ccaf56

There was even a gas station on the Granville Street level at one time, IIRC.

It was built sometime in the early 1960s by the local business association, to help downtown businesses that were in decline as the city expanded to the suburbs, and the MacDonald Bridge opened up easy access to Dartmouth's growing population.

[Keith P.]

Does anyone know what business occupied the space on Hollis St that we see in the pic? I forgot all about that. I remember parking in TexPark several times in the late ‘70s/early ‘80s. I recall that it reminded me of something you might find in Boston or Philly. Dark, damp, things dripping/falling from the level above, lots of rusty metal, and the concrete-over-metal floors (with chunks of concrete missing) moving and thumping under your feet as vehicles moved around. That was… unsettling. The whole place felt like one blow in the wrong spot could bring everything down on top of you.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Does anyone know what business occupied the space on Hollis St that we see in the pic? I forgot all about that. I remember parking in TexPark several times in the late ‘70s/early ‘80s. I recall that it reminded me of something you might find in Boston or Philly. Dark, damp, things dripping/falling from the level above, lots of rusty metal, and the concrete-over-metal floors (with chunks of concrete missing) moving and thumping under your feet as vehicles moved around. That was… unsettling. The whole place felt like one blow in the wrong spot could bring everything down on top of you.

Yeah, near the end of its useful life the whole structure felt rundown and rickety. Plus it was just plain ugly. Tearing it down was a good thing, but damn it would be nice if the prime downtown piece of land was put to use with a nice building.

I don't recall what the Hollis St. space was used for. Actually I didn't remember it even being there until I saw the pic that I posted.

[LikeCranes]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Does anyone know what business occupied the space on Hollis St that we see in the pic?...

I remember a camera place on Salter and around the corner on Hollis was Halifax Dance.

[Keith P.]

This wasn't anywhere near Salter St. I was referring to the corner of Sackville and Hollis which has been an empty lot since Texpark was demolished.

[terrynorthend]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Does anyone know what business occupied the space on Hollis St that we see in the pic? I forgot all about that. I remember parking in TexPark several times in the late ‘70s/early ‘80s. I recall that it reminded me of something you might find in Boston or Philly. Dark, damp, things dripping/falling from the level above, lots of rusty metal, and the concrete-over-metal floors (with chunks of concrete missing) moving and thumping under your feet as vehicles moved around. That was… unsettling. The whole place felt like one blow in the wrong spot could bring everything down on top of you.

I don't remember it quite looking like that. I do remember there was an actual gas station and convenience store under the parking structure at one time.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by LikeCranes

I remember a camera place on Salter and around the corner on Hollis was Halifax Dance.

Wasn’t that at Blowers/Granville?