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  #281  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2026, 6:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
One thing to remember about housing and what it costs is that expensive housing is a relatively recent phenomenon of just the last 5 or 6 years.
That's right although that's particular to the Halifax market. Prices first became unaffordable in BC, then that spread to Ontario, then NS (and AB), in a predictable fashion. HRM was very anti-development for a long time, which didn't cause immediate problems, but contributed to the explosion in prices and slow correction once the demand did arrive.

Real income growth in Canada has also been weak and a lot of basics like food have become unaffordable while taxes are high even on modest incomes, like NS charging a marginal rate of about 15% on income over 30k or so, which is in the poverty range today.

I think this comes down completely to policy decisions today and recent choices by governments. Arguments about how things were many decades ago aren't really relevant. Even if life was worse before, why would that be a reason to keep bad policy choices around that can be fixed now?
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  #282  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2026, 7:47 PM
Antigonish Antigonish is offline
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One thing to remember about housing and what it costs is that expensive housing is a relatively recent phenomenon of just the last 5 or 6 years. In the 1980s and '90s I lived in several of the large apartment blocks around SGR. When I moved there in the early '80s I was paying something like $600/mo, and when I moved away in the late '90s it was around $900/mo, so not unreasonable inflation. There's a long way to make that into today's $2500 or $3000/mo., especially for the same 1970s buildings.

I bought my house in the late '90s for $115K if memory serves. The identical house nearby was recently purchased for $500K+. I would expect to get even more if I sold it today. Why? Covid seemed to spark a change in that equation as people fled here from big cities, combined with runaway immigration spiking demand for housing of any sort (thanks, JT). That led to rentals with 8 mattresses on the floor, something never seen here previously, and something that govts would have previously come down hard on but which they no longer seem to care about. We have only ourselves and our leaders to blame. Govts making a fortune raking in taxes from all those people working and buying stuff blinds them to the costs, both financial and social.
There's an undercurrent in Canada that we are not supposed to talk about but I think a lot of people, particularly younger people, are figuring out about how fake our monetary system is as well as our "economy" is.

We were already dead-set on a massive recession back in Sept. 2019 but western governments started quantitative easing procedures and they needed plausible deniability to do it without completely imploding the markets out in the open for people to see. I won't get into the 1:1 conspiracy theory behind the extreme reaction to COVID (the policies, not the disease) but it is awfully convenient how it went down. That said, the BoC essentially doubled the M2 money in the system which naturally would cause huge inflation, particularly asset inflation as our economy is not productive as is (innovation, manufacturing, etc.) so most of that new funny money got parked into housing rather than other parts of the economy.

The other aspect is fractional-reserve banking which since the 1970s/80s went from something like 70% of reserves to now being essentially 0% meaning banks were loaning money they had none of in the first place distorting the financial markets. I only learned very recently that up until 1974 the Bank of Canada would provide interest-free loans to the government for infrastructure spending with reasonably pay-back timelines which allowed our country to build the Trans-Canada Highway, St. Lawrence Seaway, etc., without ballooning the federal debt. Then the BIS stepped in, and well... look at deficit spending and inflation that skyrocketed from the mid-1970s to the 1980s.

My last gripe is about HELOC loans and "unrealized gains" and how rigged the system is. For example Keith, if your house you've owned for 30 years has increased in value x5 then to leverage those extra "gains" to access another 500k in loans with the house as collateral to... buy more property, to leverage the unrealized value for loans for... buying more property... you get the picture. It creates a 'slumlord' class of older established people gaming the system for more assets while young educated people and young families are cut off from the system entirely. It's a rigged game and I can't imagine younger people are willing to play it much longer if they have to sacrifice everything for nothing in return. This cynicism usually manifests hatred towards everyday boomers that aren't necessarily the cause of the problem, but definitely benefit from it.
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  #283  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2026, 8:15 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Are boomers really using all this equity to get more loans now that they are in their Sixties thru their early eighties? When will they pay them off?

Most that I have known are downsizing and getting rid of their stuff (the ones who haven’t already died, that is) to either move into an apartment or some type of senior’s living (the type designed to systematically separate seniors from their life savings until they go into a nursing home), like that new one on the corner of Robie and Quinpool.

Maybe you should start directing your anger at Gen X? Soon there won’t be enough boomers around to blame, so it wouldn’t hurt to plan for the future. (which should be five cents now, given that most of us probably don’t remember the penny as actual currency)
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  #284  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2026, 8:33 PM
Antigonish Antigonish is offline
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For what it's worth I personally don't blame the everyday baby boomer generation for the systematic alterations, the vast majority didn't have anything to their name when they were kicked out of the house 18 and "figure it out like a man" and grow up. They (you) just went through life's expectations as they were for that time period. But the general resentment comes down to the system being rug-pulled and now that's not possible anymore but yet people are still expected to prop up a 1-sided system that isn't in their favour so naturally people lash out at low-hanging fruit (the everyday baby boomer) and not the bankers and their political puppets who are actually responsible. Ageism really is another form of divide & conquer the same way racial and sexual minorities are targeted in other ways.

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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Are boomers really using all this equity to get more loans now that they are in their Sixties thru their early eighties? When will they pay them off?

Most that I have known are downsizing and getting rid of their stuff (the ones who haven’t already died, that is) to either move into an apartment or some type of senior’s living (the type designed to systematically separate seniors from their life savings until they go into a nursing home), like that new one on the corner of Robie and Quinpool.

Maybe you should start directing your anger at Gen X? Soon there won’t be enough boomers around to blame, so it wouldn’t hurt to plan for the future. (which should be five cents now, given that most of us probably don’t remember the penny as actual currency)
This will be my personal opinion only, but I agree sentimentally about the older Gen X'ers (born in the mid-late 1960s). My theory is this sub-generation came into adulthood during the rise of neoliberalism in the 1980s; Reagan, Thatcher, Mulrooney, and shifted their education and career priorities into business and law degrees and started worshipping people like Jack Welch . Suddenly traditional business and commerce was no longer under the ethos of innovation or "the customer is always right" philosophies but instead geared towards extra money for shareholders, busting unions, and unpaid overtime. It lead to NAFTA and our demise.
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  #285  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2026, 1:11 PM
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There should also be, well, economic progress and growth over a 40 year period with that reflected in living standards. If you compared 1985 to 1945 or 1945 to 1905, it wasn't close. It's pretty obvious that whatever's happening, it's not translating into improving living standards for average Canadians, particularly in the post 2015 period.

We actually did have improvements in some areas like consumer goods, but it was eaten up by other areas like housing costs. Basically, most of the productivity gains from globalization and dual incomes, etc. went to property owners, particularly in the largest cities.
Canada's economy has been stagnating for decades but since 2015 there has been a material decline in GDP per capita, real personal after tax income, productivity etc that has seen us fall behind more and more peer countries. In the early 1980's we were among the top 5 richest countries in the world, with THE richest middle class. Now we are poor "rich country" and trying our best to leave the club entirely. Worst all, the wound is entirely self-inflicted, the result of deliberate government policy not least the decision to allocate far too much of our economy to a nonproductive asset (housing).

It would take a top 10% income (at least!) today to approximate the entirely normal "middle class" childhood I enjoyed in the 1980's. True, vacations were usually a road trip to visit family in NB but we had a house which today would be considered quite nice/expensive, a newish car (and then two vehicles once my mother went back to work) and a good quality of life. Same for my friends and classmates. I imagine that lifestyle may seem unattainable to some if not many young people today, which is sad.
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  #286  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2026, 1:53 PM
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Canada's economy has been stagnating for decades but since 2015 there has been a material decline in GDP per capita, real personal after tax income, productivity etc that has seen us fall behind more and more peer countries. In the early 1980's we were among the top 5 richest countries in the world, with THE richest middle class. Now we are poor "rich country" and trying our best to leave the club entirely. Worst all, the wound is entirely self-inflicted, the result of deliberate government policy not least the decision to allocate far too much of our economy to a nonproductive asset (housing).

It would take a top 10% income (at least!) today to approximate the entirely normal "middle class" childhood I enjoyed in the 1980's. True, vacations were usually a road trip to visit family in NB but we had a house which today would be considered quite nice/expensive, a newish car (and then two vehicles once my mother went back to work) and a good quality of life. Same for my friends and classmates. I imagine that lifestyle may seem unattainable to some if not many young people today, which is sad.
Expectations for our youth however have eradicated the concept of holding out for a higher goal or trip or better Car. Everyone seems to be updating their $1000+ phone every two years, taking two or three winter trips and not to N.B. but air travel to southern locations. Scraping up the rent is just added to the mix. Its all about clics and Instagram jealousy campaigns .
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  #287  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2026, 2:15 PM
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Keith P. Keith P. is offline
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Canada's economy has been stagnating for decades but since 2015 there has been a material decline in GDP per capita, real personal after tax income, productivity etc that has seen us fall behind more and more peer countries.
Per capita numbers are skewed greatly by the explosion of immigration so are not the best measure to use. Blame JT for that dilution.

I suspect the claims of things being worse than they were in the ‘80s are largely based upon flawed metrics. The BMW, Audi, Mercedes and Porsche dealers all seem to be doing quite well as does the Apple Store and high-end designer clothing stores. The secondary Rolex market is booming too. Let’s not forget the $7 coffees every morning. Money is flowing, just towards different things.
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  #288  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2026, 3:46 PM
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Expectations for our youth however have eradicated the concept of holding out for a higher goal or trip or better Car. Everyone seems to be updating their $1000+ phone every two years, taking two or three winter trips and not to N.B. but air travel to southern locations. Scraping up the rent is just added to the mix. Its all about clics and Instagram jealousy campaigns .
As a 30 year old, I can say there’s a lot of truth to this. The gap between what I see online and what I see in real life around cost of living is pretty striking. Out in the real world, every time you walk into a restaurant there are a dozen bags lined up for Uber Eats drivers (an overpriced service that adds very little actual value).

You see the same thing with cars. As a cyclist, I’m constantly amazed by how many young people are driving massive pickup trucks. Where is all the money for that coming from? If everyone was so concerned about cost of living, wouldn't they take transit, walk or bike, or at least buy a cheaper or older vehicle?

It all feels like a microcosm of our broader infrastructure issues: everyone wants perfect roads and strong community services, but also wants to pay low taxes. At some point, we have to look inward and ask what we’re collectively doing wrong.
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  #289  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2026, 5:11 PM
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Canada's economy has been stagnating for decades but since 2015 there has been a material decline in GDP per capita, real personal after tax income, productivity etc that has seen us fall behind more and more peer countries.
I think there are a lot of fairly obvious signs. For example, Canada struggles to build natural resource development or industrial projects, we struggle to build meaningful new urban infrastructure, we have a bunch of old oligopolies but few major companies in modern industries, our tax system is quite old and taxes are high while a lot of benefits produce seemingly low marginal value, etc.

I believe that these are first-order problems and the productive side is more important. Maybe it is true that young people are spending more on vacations and Uber Eats but I don't think that caused, say, an inability to sell natural gas to Europe or Asia, and I think the productivity would help with affordability of everything. I also believe that "avocado toast" arguments often reverse or over-simplify cause and effect; economic nihilism and lack of savings often follow the feelings of a lack of opportunity or meaningful payoff. If you can't afford kids or a house, you might as well do what you can to improve your quality of life.
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  #290  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2026, 6:44 PM
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I think there are a lot of fairly obvious signs. For example, Canada struggles to build natural resource development or industrial projects, we struggle to build meaningful new urban infrastructure, we have a bunch of old oligopolies but few major companies in modern industries, our tax system is quite old and taxes are high while a lot of benefits produce seemingly low marginal value, etc.

I believe that these are first-order problems and the productive side is more important. Maybe it is true that young people are spending more on vacations and Uber Eats but I don't think that caused, say, an inability to sell natural gas to Europe or Asia, and I think the productivity would help with affordability of everything. I also believe that "avocado toast" arguments often reverse or over-simplify cause and effect; economic nihilism and lack of savings often follow the feelings of a lack of opportunity or meaningful payoff. If you can't afford kids or a house, you might as well do what you can to improve your quality of life.
I agree. There are a lot of anecdotes above, and I don't dispute those (as I see the same things firsthand) however numbers don't lie and the objective data are clear:

The real after tax purchasing power of Canadians has been eroding, rapidly so in recent years. Naturally young people, with few assets or accumulated savings, bear the brunt of this. Many but not all older people are somewhat shielded by home equity etc. This corresponds to a declining quality of life and increased dissatisfaction, especially among the young. So a lot of our "best and brightest" such as top graduates in engineering or medicine who might have done great things for Canada head to the US or elsewhere, and those are left behind are increasingly unhappy.

It seems the country as a whole is allergic to any progress. We pay a heavy premium (both through taxes and increased direct costs) for our massive government protected oligopolies dominating most industries, while simultaneously stifling and discouraging any real innovation. We have seen whole industries recently post NEGATIVE productivity growth, I don't understand how that is even possible today but here we are.
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  #291  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2026, 7:13 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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So it’s been established that there is a lot of dissatisfaction and resentment over how things are, and it has always been clear that the poor are affected by this worse than any other group. The definition of poor has expanded to mean anybody who doesn’t own real estate, even if they are earning a good to very good salary (which perhaps also means that organizations have not properly increased salaries to compensate for actual cost of living?).

My question is whether Carney’s recent actions have given anyone hope that things have the chance to improve in the relatively near future. He appears to be doing more than anyone in my recent memory to improve the economic situations for most people, however it’s a big ask considering our hostile neighbour to the south. I’ve been listening to what he has been saying and have been wondering if it has been resonating with the younger generations (i.e. Millennials and younger), or does it just seem like “same shit different day” to you. Just my personal curiosity.
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  #292  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2026, 7:18 PM
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So it’s been established that there is a lot of dissatisfaction and resentment over how things are, and it has always been clear that the poor are affected by this worse than any other group. The definition of poor has expanded to mean anybody who doesn’t own real estate, even if they are earning a good to very good salary (which perhaps also means that organizations have not properly increased salaries to compensate for actual cost of living?).

My question is whether Carney’s recent actions have given anyone hope that things have the chance to improve in the relatively near future. He appears to be doing more than anyone in my recent memory to improve the economic situations for most people, however it’s a big ask considering our hostile neighbour to the south. I’ve been listening to what he has been saying and have been wondering if it has been resonating with the younger generations (i.e. Millennials and younger), or does it just seem like “same shit different day” to you. Just my personal curiosity.
He doesn't appear to be quite as bad as his predecessor. I realize things take time and even with a "perfect" decision making a recovery would take many years but so far the data don't look great:

- worst food price inflation in G7
- highest household debt
- least affordable housing (related, obviously)
- lowest investment per worker in the G7
- second highest unemployment
- second lowest productivity.

If anything I am afraid we may soon be "first" (ie worst) in those remaining categories.
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  #293  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2026, 7:26 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Thanks!
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  #294  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2026, 7:41 PM
ArchAficionado ArchAficionado is online now
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
So it’s been established that there is a lot of dissatisfaction and resentment over how things are, and it has always been clear that the poor are affected by this worse than any other group. The definition of poor has expanded to mean anybody who doesn’t own real estate, even if they are earning a good to very good salary (which perhaps also means that organizations have not properly increased salaries to compensate for actual cost of living?).

My question is whether Carney’s recent actions have given anyone hope that things have the chance to improve in the relatively near future. He appears to be doing more than anyone in my recent memory to improve the economic situations for most people, however it’s a big ask considering our hostile neighbour to the south. I’ve been listening to what he has been saying and have been wondering if it has been resonating with the younger generations (i.e. Millennials and younger), or does it just seem like “same shit different day” to you. Just my personal curiosity.
I think that a very good salary also looks different at different ages too, which can breed some of that dissatisfaction / disconnect between actual vs. perceived well-bring. A 30y couple earning 100k/yr may barely be able to make ends meet if they have, for example, an infant needing childcare, and 2500$ rent payment; whereas, a 60yo couple earning 100k/yr with a paid off house may have a housing cost of only 1000$/mo for utilities/taxes and adult children who no longer financially rely on them.
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  #295  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2026, 7:59 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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I think that a very good salary also looks different at different ages too, which can breed some of that dissatisfaction / disconnect between actual vs. perceived well-bring. A 30y couple earning 100k/yr may barely be able to make ends meet if they have, for example, an infant needing childcare, and 2500$ rent payment; whereas, a 60yo couple earning 100k/yr with a paid off house may have a housing cost of only 1000$/mo for utilities/taxes and adult children who no longer financially rely on them.
That’s what I meant when I expanded poor to include not owning property. Having children has always been draining and difficult (while also being joyful and satisfying), so I am not sure that things are so much different now than they were many years ago when people statistically had more kids and often on a single income. One of the benefits of surviving your younger years is that you should be better off financially in your senior years, although it doesn’t always work out that way (even for boomies, believe it or not). I recognize that the majority of younger people will probably be living in poverty in their senior years, unless the dynamic of having all the “B” generation die off by then helps the younger generations. All that wealth won’t just disappear - it has to go somewhere, to somebody. So we’ll see how that plays out, statistically of course.
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  #296  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2026, 8:56 PM
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One recent story was that the average 65 year old male in Canada recently passed the average 25-34 year old male in income: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/as-cana...-are-richer-and-happier-than-ever-before

To put it in context, the article points out that when the 65 years olds were in the 25-34 cohort themselves, they earned roughly double what 65 year olds did.
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  #297  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2026, 1:41 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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One recent story was that the average 65 year old male in Canada recently passed the average 25-34 year old male in income: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/as-cana...-are-richer-and-happier-than-ever-before

To put it in context, the article points out that when the 65 years olds were in the 25-34 cohort themselves, they earned roughly double what 65 year olds did.
Nice opinion piece.

Here’s the deal. I think that these discussions are fine and can be informative for both sides. However, as long as I choose to continue participating here, I will always push back when there are ageist comments and disrespecting of people because of what generation they happened to grow up in. Cut the generalizations, respect one another, communicate well and from the heart, and we will all be better off.
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