The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[bingun]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

What’s your issue with the area covered? Do we have a detailed map of the area covered yet?

Here is the map we are referencing.

[darkharbour]

The name of Waterloo doesn't matter at all, there are countless examples in cities all over the world where a previously panned neighbourhood became trendy/appealing/rejuvenated and embraced its name and past image as part of its future. Wasting time or effort on a rebranding - which Saint John has a poor track record of anyway - when there are real poverty, addiction, mental health, education, and housing issues to be addressed would be a very tone deaf thing to do at this point.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

The name of Waterloo doesn't matter at all, there are countless examples in cities all over the world where a previously panned neighbourhood became trendy/appealing/rejuvenated and embraced its name and past image as part of its future. Wasting time or effort on a rebranding - which Saint John has a poor track record of anyway - when there are real poverty, addiction, mental health, education, and housing issues to be addressed would be a very tone deaf thing to do at this point.

Doesn’t matter at all? Hardly! I’m not saying the street and area can’t overcome the name, but you seem to be dismissing outright the benefits that could come from changing the name to something with far less baggage than “Waterloo”.

How much time, effort, and resources would it actually take to change the name of the street then go from there? The Waterloo Village catchment area is far beyond the street itself, and the area name doesn’t really help breed investor confidence.

The world might be chalk full of examples of gentrification and rejuvenation of troubled neighbourhoods, but Saint John is not New York, and I think in this case, it would be best for the city to rename the street and area to something with far less baggage than Waterloo.

I’m not saying changing the name tomorrow is a huge priority, but that it’s something that should be considered to help increase investor confidence in the neighbourhood. Considering the housing minister lives there himself makes me think it’s pretty likely we will actually see some larger scale housing developments funded by the province for this troubled area.

If the area has a generational chance for improvement through local resident David Hickey being NB’s housing minister, I think the city should seriously consider a name change for the street and area, to give the street and area an even better chance to succeed and flourish, despite its troubled reputation.

If we saw a major influx of housing development in the area, calling it something other than Waterloo Village could help lessen the stigma of living there… why not consider changing the name of the street and area if it will make living there less stigmatized? It’s not about being tone deaf, it’s about being pragmatic and creative. If you don’t like what’s being said about the area… change the name, and change the conversation.

Just because I think a name change is worth considering for Waterloo, doesn’t mean I don’t think the serious issues plaguing this area need serious solutions. I think it’s naive to think the area will simply overcome the reputation. I think the area deserves massive investments and a new name to go along with them.

You’re a smart person, I don’t think you’re truly naive enough to believe that that the name, “doesn’t matter at all”… it absolutely matters.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

Here is the map we are referencing.

Thanks for sharing the map.

Yeah, gotta agree with UptownAdam on this one, the catchment area seems needlessly restrictive and should include a much larger area of eligibility.

The city really wouldn’t want to roll out the same red carpet if a developer wanted to build some high rise apartments with ocean views on the West Side or other parts of the Central Peninsula? Or in Millidgeville?

I get wanting to promote clusters of density within a certain area, but they should expand area of eligibility far beyond what’s outlined on this map.

But again, thanks for sharing the map, not trying to shoot the well informed messenger.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

The name of Waterloo doesn't matter at all, there are countless examples in cities all over the world where a previously panned neighbourhood became trendy/appealing/rejuvenated and embraced its name and past image as part of its future. Wasting time or effort on a rebranding - which Saint John has a poor track record of anyway - when there are real poverty, addiction, mental health, education, and housing issues to be addressed would be a very tone deaf thing to do at this point.

Reminds me of paid consultants suggesting Reversing Falls be renamed The Fundy Vortex and Uptown Saint John to Downtown Saint John 🤪

[sailor734]

Name changes are just lipstick on a pig. They give the illusion of action but are meaningless.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Name changes are just lipstick on a pig. They give the illusion of action but are meaningless.

I specifically called for name change + transformative actions, which could be quite an effective strategy. Given how much this city and region cares about names, and the small town attitude prevalent about covering news and developments here in Saint John… I’m surprised to see so many smart people on here poke holes in the idea that a name change (couple with great action) could actually help the situation for Waterloo.

Like honestly, when was the last time anyone has heard something positive about Waterloo Street or Waterloo Village?

I’d agree that name changes are meaningless if they are not followed up with or preceded by action, but that’s not what Im suggesting. What I am suggesting, however, is that no matter how much is invested in Waterloo Village, many people will not want to live there due to the reputation and stigma surrounding the area.

There’s no a single more stigmatized place in Saint John than Waterloo… im not sure why some of you are so convinced it’s important to keep the name unchanged because of the history associated with the name or whatever like that. I’d say the more recent dismal history far outweighs the Napoleonic historic in favour of a name change (and big action)

I think there will be big changes for the street and Waterloo area, considering the NB Housing Minister is a Waterloo resident himself. If there’s big plans in the cards for big change and improvement for the Waterloo area, then I think a name change should be seriously considered, to coincide with those big actions.

Perhaps the area could be referred to as the Upper East Side? Or perhaps it could all just be called Uptown Saint John? Most people refer to the entire Central Peninsula as Uptown anyways, why not just make it official?

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I specifically called for name change + transformative actions, which could be quite an effective strategy. Given how much this city and region cares about names, and the small town attitude prevalent about covering news and developments here in Saint John… I’m surprised to see so many smart people on here poke holes in the idea that a name change (couple with great action) could actually help the situation for Waterloo.

Like honestly, when was the last time anyone has heard something positive about Waterloo Street or Waterloo Village?

I’d agree that name changes are meaningless if they are not followed up with or preceded by action, but that’s not what Im suggesting. What I am suggesting, however, is that no matter how much is invested in Waterloo Village, many people will not want to live there due to the reputation and stigma surrounding the area.

There’s no a single more stigmatized place in Saint John than Waterloo… im not sure why some of you are so convinced it’s important to keep the name unchanged because of the history associated with the name or whatever like that. I’d say the more recent dismal history far outweighs the Napoleonic historic in favour of a name change (and big action)

I think there will be big changes for the street and Waterloo area, considering the NB Housing Minister is a Waterloo resident himself. If there’s big plans in the cards for big change and improvement for the Waterloo area, then I think a name change should be seriously considered, to coincide with those big actions.

Perhaps the area could be referred to as the Upper East Side? Or perhaps it could all just be called Uptown Saint John? Most people refer to the entire Central Peninsula as Uptown anyways, why not just make it official?

Waterloo St was once one of the most beautiful and prominent streets in Saint John. It should not be judged by its deteriorating condition since 1981, rather by its past prominence. With potential housing developments it’s ready to come back. The key is not to concentrate so many social services in the area IMO. The province has already moved some services out of Agar to city hall building.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Waterloo St was once one of the most beautiful and prominent streets in Saint John. It should not be judged by its deteriorating condition since 1981, rather by its past prominence. With potential housing developments it’s ready to come back. The key is not to concentrate so many social services in the area IMO. The province has already moved some services out of Agar to city hall building.

The area definitely needs investment more than it needs a name change, I’m just not sure why people are so quick to dismiss the opportunity to change the name if we did see big investments to transform the area.

Saint John has a lot of interesting First Nations history and names that mean a lot more to this city and its history than Napoleon’s defeat at Waterloo. The street itself might have been one of the most beautiful and prominent streets in Saint John, but what made the street nice had nothing to do with the name Waterloo. I just don’t get the attachment to the name Waterloo when it has such a dismal reputation.

It’s a joke Agar Place was built on Hospital Hill in the first place. They probably could have squeezed all of those government offices into Brunswick Square and other office buildings at the time, and today there’s more than enough empty space in Brunswick Square alone for the the entirety of those offices and a lot more.

Had they GNB sold the hospital hill property to a private developer instead, there’d like be apartments standing there today instead.

• Video Link

I find it wild that people gathered in mass to watch Saint John’s Art Deco icon get demolished without any plan to build something better in its place. The deal should have been to convert the hospital to housing or replace it with an apartment complex owned by NB housing. Saint John got shafted by the provinces short sightedness regarding the hospital hill property, and Waterloo especially suffered.

Now that the NB housing minister himself is a resident of Waterloo, maybe we will finally see the province step up and invest in major housing developments in this troubled area of the city that needs the help most. Waterloo certainly needs concrete help and investment a lot more than it needs a name change, but I still think a name change could be an effective part of a two pronged approach to transforming the area and directing the conversation about the area in a more positive direction.

[sailor734]

"Had they GNB sold the hospital hill property to a private developer instead, there’d like be apartments standing there today instead."

They did. He had plans to convert the old General to condos. I don't recall exactly but he either went bankrupt of simply abandoned the site.. His name eludes me but I believe it was just after they had used the building as the athlete's village for the '85 Canada Games (it had closed as a hospital in late 1982). THe project was "pie in the sky" and the building became derelict before finally being demolished in 95.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

"Had they GNB sold the hospital hill property to a private developer instead, there’d like be apartments standing there today instead."

They did. He had plans to convert the old General to condos. He went bankrupt.

Too bad they didn’t sell it to a developer with a proven track record. Sounds like NB Housing should have stepped up to build some apartment buildings… instead of that terribly uninteresting box of a building we got instead.

Waterloo was already a mess in the 90s… hospital hill would have been a smart location to build a major affordable/social housing development. Still don’t think it’s too late to tear down Agar Place and NB Housing builds something major there in its place.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

Nice to see CTV giving some detailed coverage of the port and providing some general updates.

Port Saint John reports record year in 2025

https://www.ctvnews.ca/atlantic/new-brunswick/article/port-saint-john-reports-record-year-in-2025/

Here’s the accompanying YT video from the article:

• Video Link

Really great to hear the port is continuing to post record growth. I hope we see a roadmap to 1 million TEUs and beyond as part of these upcoming updates on Port Saint John developments. DP World and CPKC both seem to believe Port Saint John has the potential to be a 1 million+ TEU container port.

What’s good for the Port of Saint John is good for the whole city and region (and province for that matter)

Now if only our airport could undergo such expansion growth and development.

[cdnguys]

[url=https://ibb.co/NnZQxkFt][/IMG]

[cdnguys]

[cdnguys]

[dhottawa729]

Ugh, I really dislike those window mullions…
So ‘Home Depot’ looking. Seems weird to have operable windows in a mid-rise that is also climate-controlled. I’m no architect, but full glazing with slim mullions would have looked a lot better. Also, what’s with the ice buildup on all the walls…heat/moisture rising up out of the parking garage?

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

Ugh, I really dislike those window mullions…
So ‘Home Depot’ looking. Seems weird to have operable windows in a mid-rise that is also climate-controlled. I’m no architect, but full glazing with slim mullions would have looked a lot better. Also, what’s with the ice buildup on all the walls…heat/moisture rising up out of the parking garage?

All uptown was like that today with freezing rain hitting the buildings - it was very pretty.

[cdnguys]

[IMG][/IMG]

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Sorry to be dense but what buildings are these?

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

The one is definitely 99 King right? lol

I really think the government financing should have been conditional on the removal of the “turrets” from the roof design. 😅

I think it’s a shame they tried way too hard to make a new building look old, instead of just building a 15-20 storey modern high rise. 🌇