Ottawa intercity bus terminal relocation

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

There really is an incentive to get the HSR done after all, so only Northern Ontarians coming to Ottawa have to deal with this mess.

First of all HSR will be even more expensive than the existing train, so anyone on a budget will take the bus.
Secondly HSR is faster with fewer stops, so buses will be the better option for people going to/from places where the train doesn't stop.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by phil235

If you want to entirely skip downtown, which has to have a significant share of the bus-riding public.

Or at least, "central Ottawa". Hurdman or Tremblay (or maybe St-Laurent) could serve this purpose reasonably well, I'd say. Given that they're just a couple of stops from downtown on the Confederation Line.

A new dedicated intercity bus terminal right downtown seems very unlikely.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Or at least, "central Ottawa". Hurdman or Tremblay (or maybe St-Laurent) could serve this purpose reasonably well, I'd say. Given that they're just a couple of stops from downtown on the Confederation Line.

A new dedicated intercity bus terminal right downtown seems very unlikely.

Agreed, a new downtown terminal is really unlikely. Hurdman or Tremblay are not terrible options, but at least having a stop downtown or even on Catherine again makes sense given that you have the highest concentration of students and car-less people in that area. Even Lees would be a much better option than what they have now. Same with Bayview.

[c_speed3108]

I am inclined to think co-locating with one (or more) of the better transit stations makes the most sense....since there is already infrastructure in place.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

A departure from Pinecrest/Ikea is quite bad. Most of the people taking the bus to Toronto effectively don't have a car (otherwise they would drive), so to ask them to bus all over the city to get to Ikea to take the intercity bus is ridiculous.

Agreed someplace more central, accessible and on LRT would make it much more desirable for all.

On the other end, imagine someone from Toronto taking the bus to come visit Ottawa for the weekend and gets dropped off in the Ikea Parking Lot at Pinecrest. What a great start to a weekend - good luck trying to navigate 2-3 buses + LRT to get anywhere remotely close to downtown haha.

For Rider Express, the Bus Loop at the Pinecrest Mall is their Ottawa West Bus Stop. Their Ottawa Bus Stop is at St. Laurent Station.

For FlixBus, the Ikea parking lot is their Ottawa Bus Stop. They do also have a Kanata Bus Stop at the Canadian Tire Gas Bar (not much better). I guess it just goes to show that you get what you pay for.

[DTcrawler]

Lots of great suggestions for better places for these various bus companies to stop but I think the more important conversation is why aren't they using them?

Flixbus for example used to stop on George St. in the heart of the Market (using designated coach/tour bus on-street parking). This location had many attractions/amenities/accommodations within walking distance, including Rideau station.

They then decided to move to a torn-up Commissioner St. location with zero on-site signage and a very vague pin-marker on a map included in their confirmation emails. I recall seeing Reddit posts from confused riders having trouble finding the stop.

Then they moved to the most remote part of the massive parking lot of Pinecrest Mall. Far away from the OC Transpo bus stops on Iris St.

For Flixbus routes that take Hwy 7 and also stop in Kanata, they use an effing gas station (the CT gas station at the corner of Terry Fox / Didsbury). I once saw a confused looking woman with a suitcase standing at that intersection. I pulled over to help her, and when she told me she was looking for the Flixbus stop, I told her I was 99% sure she should be heading to Terry Fox station which has (or used to have) one of its stops reserved for inter-city buses. She then pulled up her confirmation email, which, to my surprise, showed a pin marker loosely dropped on the location she was standing. While we were trying to figure things out, another lady got out of an Uber with a suitcase leading us to believe that was indeed the correct location. I was utterly shocked.

So clearly there is a reason these companies are using the worst pick-up / drop-off locations they can think of. My guess it has something to do with avoiding whatever fees they're charged for using more connected locations. As I mentioned previously, even in Toronto a lot of these companies don't use the Union Bus Terminal which was purpose built for regional / inter-city bus travel.

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by phil235

Agreed, a new downtown terminal is really unlikely. Hurdman or Tremblay are not terrible options, but at least having a stop downtown or even on Catherine again makes sense given that you have the highest concentration of students and car-less people in that area. Even Lees would be a much better option than what they have now. Same with Bayview.

If a stop can be set up on St. Laurent or Catherine ok. However my point is there is only 1 airport and people find their way to it. There are 2 train stations, one east, one west and people use the closest or most convenient. If one tries to make an inter-city bus operation cover all areas of the departure city and again all areas of the arrival city, it really does diminish the advantages.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

Lots of great suggestions for better places for these various bus companies to stop but I think the more important conversation is why aren't they using them?

Flixbus for example used to stop on George St. in the heart of the Market (using designated coach/tour bus on-street parking). This location had many attractions/amenities/accommodations within walking distance, including Rideau station.

They then decided to move to a torn-up Commissioner St. location with zero on-site signage and a very vague pin-marker on a map included in their confirmation emails. I recall seeing Reddit posts from confused riders having trouble finding the stop.

Then they moved to the most remote part of the massive parking lot of Pinecrest Mall. Far away from the OC Transpo bus stops on Iris St.

For Flixbus routes that take Hwy 7 and also stop in Kanata, they use an effing gas station (the CT gas station at the corner of Terry Fox / Didsbury). I once saw a confused looking woman with a suitcase standing at that intersection. I pulled over to help her, and when she told me she was looking for the Flixbus stop, I told her I was 99% sure she should be heading to Terry Fox station which has (or used to have) one of its stops reserved for inter-city buses. She then pulled up her confirmation email, which, to my surprise, showed a pin marker loosely dropped on the location she was standing. While we were trying to figure things out, another lady got out of an Uber with a suitcase leading us to believe that was indeed the correct location. I was utterly shocked.

So clearly there is a reason these companies are using the worst pick-up / drop-off locations they can think of. My guess it has something to do with avoiding whatever fees they're charged for using more connected locations. As I mentioned previously, even in Toronto a lot of these companies don't use the Union Bus Terminal which was purpose built for regional / inter-city bus travel.

I have to wonder if FlixBus doesn't go all the way downtown, in part because they don't want to be delayed in the Queensway traffic.

Surely they could find better stops though. If they don't want to be stuck in traffic, they should have a convenient connection to OC Transpo, but the poor stop locations are most likely cost related.

[Acajack]

Downtown Ottawa isn't Manhattan in terms of density and congestion but there isn't much of a compelling reason for running intercity motorcoaches through there when there are rapid transit stations a couple of stops outside the core where there is a lot more space for them to wait and pick up passengers.

BTW at least one of the lines that runs from Gatineau to Montreal uses the 417 and therefore has a stop at the University of Ottawa.

I believe the other line uses the 50 and goes through Laval.

[acottawa]

The IKEA parking lot has a certain logic to it; it is close to a future LRT station, allows a fairly straightforward turnaround and provides somewhere to go (at least from 10-8). The lack of any well-marked stop seems to be a problem though.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Downtown Ottawa isn't Manhattan in terms of density and congestion but there isn't much of a compelling reason for running intercity motorcoaches through there when there are rapid transit stations a couple of stops outside the core where there is a lot more space for them to wait and pick up passengers.

I see the appeal, but I still think it is a mistake to entirely ignore the central area, not just because it is the most central and has the most students, but also because it is relatively poorly served by rapid transit. Think of students in Vanier or the Glebe or Old Ottawa South - there is no particularly convenient way for them to get to outlying rapid transit stations, particularly off-peak, that doesn't involve a long trip and several transfers. Decentralizing services like this is just making the city incrementally less functional.

[Uhuniau]

The fact that these intercity bus operators are so bad at communicating to the public is screaming out for regulation about their stop locations and signage.

But, as with intracity bus transit, bus users are dependent and captive, and the political class who would otherwise be called upon to do something in the way of policy simply don't give a shit.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The fact that these intercity bus operators are so bad at communicating to the public is screaming out for regulation about their stop locations and signage.

But, as with intracity bus transit, bus users are dependent and captive, and the political class who would otherwise be called upon to do something in the way of policy simply don't give a shit.

And there is no way Ford will admit that he was wrong deregulating intercity bus service. The earliest it could get fixed is after a change in government, and even then, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

And there is no way Ford will admit that he was wrong deregulating intercity bus service. The earliest it could get fixed is after a change in government, and even then, I wouldn't hold my breath.

If I wanted to be cynical about it, I'd consider these invisible, hard-to-find intercity bus access points to be a barrier for people living with various disabilities and launch some regulatory actions accordingly.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

If I wanted to be cynical about it, I'd consider these invisible, hard-to-find intercity bus access points to be a barrier for people living with various disabilities and launch some regulatory actions accordingly.

It's the 2020s. (Almost) no one cares about persons with disabilities anymore.

They have been replaced in the public consciousness by other "flavour of the month" groups.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's the 2020s. (Almost) no one cares about persons with disabilities anymore.

They have been replaced in the public consciousness by other "flavour of the month" groups.

The people in charge with enforcing legislation aimed at protecting the interests of people with disabilities and other human rights issues very much care.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The people in charge with enforcing legislation aimed at protecting the interests of people with disabilities and other human rights issues very much care.

Oh I know they do. I am just saying that they don't get many attentive ears these days. (And we probably both agree that it's abhorrent.)

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Oh I know they do. I am just saying that they don't get many attentive ears these days. (And we probably both agree that it's abhorrent.)

The law is very strong probably excessively so- meaning they don't need a lot of activism.

[acottawa]

I am not really sure why Ikea would be particularly worse for people with accessibility issues.

[zzptichka]

Wonder what will it take to have VIA build a simple bus terminal on one of their Tremblay parking lots.