DETROIT | Ren Cen | potential redevelopment

[wanderer34]

Originally Posted by Blocky858

I hope they don't demolish any of it.

Originally Posted by NYguy

https://wrkr.com/renaissance-center-demolition/

Nearly Half of Detroit’s Renaissance Center Could Be Demolished, Changing the City’s Skyline Forever

Meatball
July 30, 2024



• Video Link

Originally Posted by bobdreamz

Has anybody heard about this?

• Video Link

I just hope that the city and the state proclaim the RenCen as a city and state monument. For almost 50 years, the RenCen has been one of Detroit's most famous landmarks and one of the most famous icons and symbols in Detroit, and any modifications that would alter the RenCen's height and architecture should be shunned.

Detroit doesn't have a supertall, but while the RenCen isn't a supertall, it's up there with other tall towers such as the Sears Tower in Chicago, the Empire State Building in NY, the Transamerica Building in SF, the Prudential Center in Boston, and Liberty Place in Philadelphia. Don't demolish the RenCen!

[DetroitMan]

RenCen plan would demolish 2 towers — but it hinges on public money

Two of the 39-story office towers — 300 and 400 — on the Detroit riverfront are slated for demolition, freeing up more land for public space along the water.

One of the remaining towers, the 100 tower, is slated for residential conversion into some 300-400 units; while the other 200 tower is expected to undergo an overhaul as spruced-up office space for new tenants, Kofi Bonner, CEO of Bedrock, said in an interview with Crain's.
The 1,300-room Detroit Marriott at the Renaissance Center hotel tower, the state’s tallest building at 73 stories and 727 feet, would also be carved up; reducing the hotel to some 850 rooms on the lower levels and reserving the top levels for what Bonner described as high-end residential space.

The vision would create a new Wintergarden-like structure providing better riverfront access for the hotel for events, plus additional commercial space, a GM spokesperson said.

"We really wanted to open up the RenCen complex to the riverfront and provide a pathway to downtown, connected to downtown," Bonner said in an interview. "It's 5.5 million square feet, and it's 5.5 million square feet of two use types (office and mall-like retail) that aren't as ... prominent in the marketplace as they were when these buildings were built." Bonner said demolishing the two office towers closest to the river begins to right-size the office footprint in a challenging office environment and also provides additional land for more riverfront park space.

The GM spokesperson said the company would "work in partnership with tenants to find the best solution within the city" for a relocation if the skyscrapers are torn down. “How do you right-size the real estate, to get the real estate to a point where it has a mix of uses, but also is stronger as an economic entity,” Bonner said, pointing to two of its signature developments in recent years, the Book Tower and Book Building redevelopment and the Hudson's Detroit development as examples of use mixture.

And the more than 20 acres of largely surface parking lots owned by GM through a subsidiary would be converted into sports and entertainment space that Bonner likened to the O2 entertainment district in London or Navy Pier in Chicago. Gilbert has also previously referenced a concept like Chelsea Piers in New York City, as well.

The project has as estimated price tag of $1.6 billion, Bonner said, which includes demolition and redevelopment of the RenCen property.

Gilbert is committed to funding it to the tune of at least $1 billion, while GM would contribute $250 million and some $250 million or more in public funding — much of that from the state — is being sought to redevelop the complex. Deeper due-diligence would begin immediately if the public funding is approved, said Bonner.

David Massaron, vice president of infrastructure and corporate citizenship for GM, said the only other options for GM would be to level the entire complex and prepare the site for development; to let it sit underutilized or to sell it to someone who would let it deteriorate.

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-estate/renaissance-center-demolition-gm-dan-gilbert

[The North One]

So absurd lmao

What the fuck is the point of this? Everyone has lost their damn minds clearly.

[iheartthed]

They should really prioritize residential development of the GM owned surface lots to the east of the Ren Cen and/or develop at least one more hotel. The problem with the Ren Cen was its isolation and I don't really see that being solved in this plan. Chelsea Piers, Navy Pier, and O2 all benefit from being in pedestrian friendly cities with good traffic and high population densities. Detroit doesn't have any of those things right now, so an entertainment district on the riverfront will be highly reliant on people arriving by car... and there's just not enough room around there to support thousands of people coming in via personal cars.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by The North One

So absurd lmao

What the fuck is the point of this? Everyone has lost their damn minds clearly.

I wouldn't worry about it. I have it on good authority that all of this Ren Cen demolition chatter is just delusional fan fiction.

The Freep made it all up to sell more newspapers.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

I wouldn't worry about it. I have it on good authority that all of this Ren Cen demolition chatter is just delusional fan fiction.

The Freep made it all up to sell more newspapers.

It was delusional fan fiction and to sell clickbait. And it still is unless they get money from the state. They're just visionary renders. Who knows when this would even happen, maybe ten years from now.

Nothing I said was wrong. It's going to cost insane cash to do any of this.

[Crawford]

This, to me, is weird. Either demolish the office towers or don't. Keeping two is jarring and ungainly.

Also, how about the state not subsidize Gilbert for once? No way will the final ask only be a quarter-billion.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by Crawford

This, to me, is weird. Either demolish the office towers or don't. Keeping two is jarring and ungainly.

Also, how about the state not subsidize Gilbert for once? No way will the final ask only be a quarter-billion.

It's total lunacy. Ford spent over a billion dollars bringing back a decrepit 110 year old train station from the absolute brink of death and you're telling me GM and Bedrock can't simply maintain some vacant class B office space???

That giant tower in St. Louis has been totally vacant for like 12 years and it's still in decent shape and the Ren Cen is in nowhere near as bad of a position. What the hell is the rush here? Thankfully Republicans have control of the Michigan house, so good luck, this will not be a rubber stamp approval. There's also no way the general public is going to support this.

And it's not like Bedrock hasn't released fantasy renders with no intention of delivering before. Like the MLS stadium on Gratiot, Monroe Blocks, the Amazon HQ2 renders. Putting out stuff like this is their MO.

[iheartthed]

I don't hate how the Ren Cen looks with half of the towers missing as much as I thought I would... at least as presented by the rendering.

Without public money from the state GM is likely to just demolish everything except the hotel tower. At this point I don't hate that idea, tbh.

[animatedmartian]

Yea I don't understand using public money when the private side clearly has more than enough money.

Also, while that waterfront redevelopment looks nice, I'd rather see more new density being built.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by The North One

Nothing I said was wrong.

Then you and I have very different definitions for "fan fiction".

The Freep article from a couple months ago that reported on a source inside the redevelopment team who said partial demolition of the complex was being seriously considered was not fiction of any kind.

That doesn't mean that any demo will ever actually take place, but it's clear now that partial demolition has been considered, and is now, in fact, the actual plan put publicly forward today by the redevelopment team.

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I don't hate how the Ren Cen looks with half of the towers missing as much as I thought I would... at least as presented by the rendering.

Me either. I thought the change would be more jarring to me, but that scheme actually works pretty nicely IMO.

And the extra park/promenade space opened up along the river looks especially nice.

Who knows what will eventually happen, but I certainly wouldn't hate that outcome.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Without public money from the state GM is likely to just demolish everything except the hotel tower. At this point I don't hate that idea, tbh.

GM is not going to use their own money for anything. They'd just sell it.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by The North One

GM is not going to use their own money for anything. They'd just sell it.

They aren't going to sell it to just anyone because the risk of it falling into deterioration is too high. The sale has to be to an entity with the means to maintain or redevelop it.

The value of the building is trivial to them. The bigger issue is decades of future press references of them leaving Detroit's tallest skyscraper to fall into disrepair. It's a reputational risk.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

They aren't going to sell it to just anyone because the risk of it falling into deterioration is too high. The sale has to be to an entity with the means to maintain or redevelop it.

The value of the building is trivial to them. The bigger issue is decades of future press references of them leaving Detroit's tallest skyscraper to fall into disrepair. It's a reputational risk.

You're falling exactly into the narrative they want lol. There's zero chance of "Detroit's tallest skyscraper falling into disrepair" because the hotel is completely fine. The alarmist stuff here is such bullshit.

Even if that was true, they'll still just sell it at a discount before spending a billion to demo the thing.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by The North One

You're falling exactly into the narrative they want lol. There's zero chance of "Detroit's tallest skyscraper falling into disrepair" because the hotel is completely fine. The alarmist stuff here is such bullshit.

Of course that's not true lol. Anyone that is familiar with downtown Detroit before 2015 knows that there is a non-zero chance that a skyscraper can end up empty in Detroit.

Originally Posted by The North One

Even if that was true, they'll still just sell it at a discount before spending a billion to demo the thing.

I explained why they won't do this. The value of the building is trivial to them. They don't want the risk of the building that they abandoned becoming a future eyesore. If you know of a potential acquirer with a bigger name than GM that is interested in buying it, thus de-risking the future reputational injury, I'm sure they are all ears.

[DarknessIgnite]

I mean if they're planning on converting one tower to residential why not just convert the other 2 they want to demolish?

I would really hope the city/state has a vested in increasing the supply of housing and just outright demolishing skyscrapers here (especially this iconic) cannot be good for the city

[The North One]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Of course that's not true lol. Anyone that is familiar with downtown Detroit before 2015 knows that there is a non-zero chance that a skyscraper can end up empty in Detroit.

2015 was a decade ago dude. This is irrelevant to anything I just said.

I explained why they won't do this. The value of the building is trivial to them. They don't want the risk of the building that they abandoned becoming a future eyesore. If you know of a potential acquirer with a bigger name than GM that is interested in buying it, thus de-risking the future reputational injury, I'm sure they are all ears.

You think GM wont sell a giant liability they don't want because... reputation?? As if GM's reputation isn't already garbage. Whatever part of them cares about public opinion is not nearly enough for them to spend a billion of their own cash on demolition costs. And they'd take a hit to their name regardless.

[mousquet]

That idea of tearing down 2 of the 4 office towers is dumb IMO, if even feasible.
Those modern black towers ain't so ugly, though.

If they think the big complex is awkward in their city, which it's been in their skyline, they should demolish parking garages instead of the 2 towers, to redevelop the ground level and manage some better pedestrian and biking connection to the rest of their downtown, then turn the office buildings into something residential and/or entertaining if needed.

The problem with the site is it looks like some sort of giant fortress cut off from the rest of town, but it is not ugly.
It actually needs more tall buildings around, not less.

Demolishing the 2 towers would probably cost a pretty great deal of money to them anyway.
So using that same money for something more imaginative and constructive on a longer run would be better.
For sure, some people out there must have better ideas for the same kind of money.

[Steely Dan]

Games.

No one could have ever possibly foreseen this.

‘Extortion’ tactic: GM panned for floating five-tower RenCen demo if tax breaks rejected


If General Motors and Dan Gilbert can’t secure the public funding they say they need to revamp the struggling Renaissance Center, the automaker says it’s prepared to demolish the five towers it owns and bear the full cost.

GM confirmed in a statement to the Free Press that full demolition is a possible alternative to its proposal to partially demolish and renovate the complex, after it faced pushback from a chorus of lawmakers opposed to helping publicly fund a plan to tear down two towers and renovate three. That plan has also drawn critics from the architectural and preservation communities, who called it shortsighted and ill-conceived.

By threatening to tear down the group of skyscrapers that includes Michigan’s tallest if taxpayer support doesn't come through, the developers are trying to force their vision on the public, said Detroit-based urbanist and University of Michigan architecture professor Craig Wilkins.

Full article: https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/m...n-towers-subsidies-rejected/76658555007/

[iheartthed]

The hotel tower seems very viable, so that part definitely feels like they are playing chicken with the state and city governments. Unless there's some structural reason that it can't stand without the towers. However, it seems very likely that they will demo the office towers if they can't find a reputable buyer. I believe Dan Gilbert still has an option to buy the Ren Cen but there's probably not any other interested entity in Metro Detroit they would even consider selling to.