Carlingwood Shopping Centre Redevelopment

[eltodesukane]

"The Carlingwood site is also part of a city bus transit hub"
Really not much of a transit hub...

"and near a future stop on Ottawa’s east-west light-rail transit line expansion"
Really not so near...

[kwoldtimer]

Would be nice is somebody could breath more life into Carlingwood. Although it's unsurpassed as a place for seniors to gather and drink coffee.

[OTSkyline]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

"The Carlingwood site is also part of a city bus transit hub"
Really not much of a transit hub...

"and near a future stop on Ottawa’s east-west light-rail transit line expansion"
Really not so near...

It might not be on the line like Bayshore, Rideau or St-Laurent, but as a secondary or tertiary mall, it will most likely be the closest to the O-train.

And there are several bus routes servicing Carling, Woodroffe, Richmond and some routes even loop through the parking lot to drop off/pick-up transit users at the mall's front door.

Exciting to see what could become. A few rental towers could be exactly what is needed to reinvigorate the assortment of shops in the mall.

[J.OT13]

Could easily build a few towers fronting Carling and leave the mall for now.

[J.OT13]

I transformed the Carlingwood Canadian Tire thread into a general Carlingwood thread. We have single threads for all other malls, not individual threads for each anchor, so I thought it was a sensible move.

My wife and I went this weekend, and the patters are quite interesting. The mall is relatively busy at the front (Carling side), the food court and especially closer to the Canadian Tire, which you would think most people would drive in and only visit the CT. The backside though is quite dead. It's really missing an anchor at the back to re-distribute the flow of mall goers.

The parking structures at the back are more or less empty (one is closed), and the front is about half full. There's some great potential to develop towers along Carling, and maybe a couple mid-rises at the back, while maintaining the mall itself. It certainly not a lost cause like others, it jsut needs more built-in potential clientele.

Existing density around the mall is quite impressive, with several large apartment buildings. Even towards the back, there are semi-detached homes and the mid-century sfh are on relatively packed together for the era.

[Fading Isle]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

It might not be on the line like Bayshore, Rideau or St-Laurent, but as a secondary or tertiary mall, it will most likely be the closest to the O-train.

Gloucester Centre and Place d'Orleans would like a word.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I transformed the Carlingwood Canadian Tire thread into a general Carlingwood thread. We have single threads for all other malls, not individual threads for each anchor, so I thought it was a sensible move.

My wife and I went this weekend, and the patters are quite interesting. The mall is relatively busy at the front (Carling side), the food court and especially closer to the Canadian Tire, which you would think most people would drive in and only visit the CT. The backside though is quite dead. It's really missing an anchor at the back to re-distribute the flow of mall goers.

The parking structures at the back are more or less empty (one is closed), and the front is about half full. There's some great potential to develop towers along Carling, and maybe a couple mid-rises at the back, while maintaining the mall itself. It certainly not a lost cause like others, it jsut needs more built-in potential clientele.

Existing density around the mall is quite impressive, with several large apartment buildings. Even towards the back, there are semi-detached homes and the mid-century sfh are on relatively packed together for the era.

I've wondered whether Giant Tiger might not make a good addition in the back corner (former RBC), but I imagine that Loblaws has a lock on grocery sales at the mall.

[Jay31]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I've wondered whether Giant Tiger might not make a good addition in the back corner (former RBC), but I imagine that Loblaws has a lock on grocery sales at the mall.

I think that also might compete a bit too much with Dollarama, which is arguably another anchor after CT and Loblaws.

I agree that the mall needs another anchor tenant at the far corner though - most malls are designed with anchors at the corners on purpose. It could even be a larger Dollarama or a handful of other known chains that might get people to the mall. There are too many no-name specialty shops that might invite browsing, but aren't going to get anyone who "needs a new..." to come to the mall (other than maybe Softmoc).

It could also use a bit more variety of food - it lost Booster Juice, DQ and NY Fries recently.. though a new Indian place opened and I've heard there's a bubble tea place taking NY Fries spot. It'd be nice if Second Cup was replaced with a Starbucks or Bridgehead for better coffee, though both have locations nearby. Maybe a Happy Goat?

I live nearby, and think the mall has potential - there will be a lot more people moving into the area in coming years. I'm hoping the new owners choose to develop it with a mall - or at least a large retail component, rather than purely residential... or worse, leave it an empty field for years like Lincoln.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Jay31

I think that also might compete a bit too much with Dollarama, which is arguably another anchor after CT and Loblaws.

I agree that the mall needs another anchor tenant at the far corner though - most malls are designed with anchors at the corners on purpose. It could even be a larger Dollarama or a handful of other known chains that might get people to the mall. There are too many no-name specialty shops that might invite browsing, but aren't going to get anyone who "needs a new..." to come to the mall (other than maybe Softmoc).

It could also use a bit more variety of food - it lost Booster Juice, DQ and NY Fries recently.. though a new Indian place opened and I've heard there's a bubble tea place taking NY Fries spot. It'd be nice if Second Cup was replaced with a Starbucks or Bridgehead for better coffee, though both have locations nearby. Maybe a Happy Goat?

I live nearby, and think the mall has potential - there will be a lot more people moving into the area in coming years. I'm hoping the new owners choose to develop it with a mall - or at least a large retail component, rather than purely residential... or worse, leave it an empty field for years like Lincoln.

Is that the sit-down restaurant? I noticed that something was set to replace the one that shut down a while back.

[Jay31]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Is that the sit-down restaurant? I noticed that something was set to replace the one that shut down a while back.

I think so. I haven't checked it out yet. Like all Indian restaurants, the reviews are a mix of it being amazing and inedible. Probably a mix of family and competitors...lol. I'll give it a try soon though.

[Harley613]

Carlingwood is at its worst ever. I just counted 25 empty stores, and half the occupied stores are low-rent and popups. I can't see the elderly coffee crowd sustaining this on their own for very much longer.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Carlingwood is at its worst ever. I just counted 25 empty stores, and half the occupied stores are low-rent and popups. I can't see the elderly coffee crowd sustaining this on their own for very much longer.

It's a strange place. It can be quite busy at times, but whether anyone is shopping is hard to tell. There are a lot of food places, including a couple of new ones, and an extraordinary number of cell phone places (8 or 9, I think) The banks and some of the other services (but not the new gym) seem well used. I think the Canadian Tire has helped, but not as much as I thought it might. The Loblaws really needs to be expanded. For the retail, however, I really don't see much hope. I used to think the Giant Tiger might be a good fit there, but I suppose Loblaws has the grocery element locked down. One could see the site being partially or completely redeveloped at some time down the road.

[harls]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Carlingwood is at its worst ever. I just counted 25 empty stores, and half the occupied stores are low-rent and popups. I can't see the elderly coffee crowd sustaining this on their own for very much longer.

I haven't been there in a few years.. maybe right before the pandemic. It seemed like it had a lot of foot traffic.

Most malls feel like less and less of a destination nowadays because of free one-day shipping from Amazon.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by harls

I haven't been there in a few years.. maybe right before the pandemic. It seemed like it had a lot of foot traffic.

Most malls feel like less and less of a destination nowadays because of free one-day shipping from Amazon.

Bayshore is the only destination feeling mall post pandemic I find, retail seems very much alive there.

Rideau Centre is just frightening at this point. I used to go there more than any other mall, but they jacked the parking from min 30 mins for $1.50 to min 60 mins for $5.00 just recently, so they instantly lost my business forever. I'm not paying $5 to grab something on the way home, risk having my car being broken into, and risk seeing people stab each other.

[harls]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Bayshore is the only destination feeling mall post pandemic I find, retail seems very much alive there.

Rideau Centre is just frightening at this point. I used to go there more than any other mall, but they jacked the parking from min 30 mins for $1.50 to min 60 mins for $5.00 just recently, so they instantly lost my business forever. I'm not paying $5 to grab something on the way home, risk having my car being broken into, and risk seeing people stab each other.

Ha! I went to Rideau a couple of weeks ago because my kids wanted to check out that Imaginaire place. I used the parking garage and yep I had to pay 5 bucks for less than 30 mins.. parked on the bottom level. At least it was 16 degrees in the basement.

My youngest kid went back the next week to hang out with friends. He took the bus to Tunney's and grabbed the LRT. Probably cost less.

[Jay31]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Carlingwood is at its worst ever. I just counted 25 empty stores, and half the occupied stores are low-rent and popups. I can't see the elderly coffee crowd sustaining this on their own for very much longer.

Yet, on the weekends, parking is a mad house (at least the Carling side). I think the CT and Loblaws are responsible for the majority of traffic, though the mall can feel busy at times. Beyond those two anchors and Dollorama/Rexall, it lacks the big name chains that would actually draw people there (compared to Rideau/Bayshore). As much as I'd like to see it revived for its proximity to myself, I don't think there's a big future for non-destination malls. Whoever buys the property will need to rethink it... hopefully it still has a large retail component though. A shit ton of residential development and some transit on Carling may could the area a lot in the coming decade.

Originally Posted by harls

My youngest kid went back the next week to hang out with friends. He took the bus to Tunney's and grabbed the LRT. Probably cost less.

This is the way. We park on a side street near Tunneys and take the LRT.. kids like the train ride too. Once stage 2 opens, we will be able to just take the LRT all the way... same for Bayshore come to think of it (won't miss that parking lot either!)

[Lakeofthewood]

Originally Posted by Jay31

This is the way. We park on a side street near Tunneys and take the LRT.. kids like the train ride too. Once stage 2 opens, we will be able to just take the LRT all the way... same for Bayshore come to think of it (won't miss that parking lot either!)

I mean, this is inherently a good thing, if transit to downtown is an option for anyone. Ironically we find that parking may not cost enough, as for two of us to take the LRT down and back is almost $8, so it's faster and cheaper to drive if you're in a rush.

[Spoonsy]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Carlingwood is at its worst ever. I just counted 25 empty stores, and half the occupied stores are low-rent and popups. I can't see the elderly coffee crowd sustaining this on their own for very much longer.

i made that generalization in the General Retail Thread that people go to carlingwood purely to shop at canadian tire and i got rallied against faster than a skyscraper in the glebe

but this was sort of the point i was trying to make in my usual dumb posting style

Originally Posted by Harley613

Rideau Centre is just frightening at this point. I used to go there more than any other mall, but they jacked the parking from min 30 mins for $1.50 to min 60 mins for $5.00 just recently, so they instantly lost my business forever. I'm not paying $5 to grab something on the way home, risk having my car being broken into, and risk seeing people stab each other.

agreed... for trips planned ahead, started using the novotel parking, $3.50 for half an hour although with the added distance you're probably gonna hit $7 at least, but for the price you get fully gated & access controlled for some peace of mind. i don't fear stabbing but if i've got shit in my car that i can't hide i find it worth the $7

[rocketphish]

Carlingwood Shopping Centre sold as new owners eye residential development for 30-acre site

David Sali, OBJ
June 3, 2024 1:01 PM ET

Carlingwood Shopping Centre has been sold to a pair of real estate firms that plan to launch a wave of new residential development at the 30-acre site that is now home to the city’s fifth-largest mall.

Vancouver-based Anthem Properties Group and Toronto’s Streamliner Properties Inc. have partnered to acquire the 632,700-square-foot retail complex on Carling Avenue, which is anchored by the country’s largest Canadian Tire store. Terms of the transaction were not disclosed.

Opened in 1956, Carlingwood now has more than 90 stores and services, including marquee tenants such as Loblaws, Rexall and Dollarama. The mall, which is also home to a fitness centre and three banks, attracts more than 280,000 visitors a month.

In a statement issued Friday, Carlingwood’s new owners said the mall’s proximity to a major arterial road and the soon-to-be-completed New Orchard LRT station makes it a “prime location for much-needed incremental residential density,” adding “quality housing is in high demand” in the neighbourhood around the mall.

The developers said they plan to take a “phased approach” to building out the property, which many local real estate observers believe is an ideal location for highrise condominiums on the parking lots surrounding the shopping centre.

It’s the first foray into the National Capital Region for Anthem and Streamliner, a wholly owned subsidiary of Minett Capital.

At the same time, it’s a return to familiar territory for Streamliner chief executive Alan Greenberg, who noted in Friday’s news release that he grew up “around the corner” from the shopping centre.

“To say I am excited to provide my years of leadership in both real estate and green technology to a development of this scope and substance, is an understatement,” Greenberg said. “Our aim is to create prime urban communities where people live, work and play.”

Anthem founder and CEO Eric Carlson said the acquisition is part of the company’s push to expand its holdings beyond Western Canada.

“We anticipate that the reset in real estate ownership brought on by changes in capital allocations, in turn brought on by inflation and higher interest rates, will facilitate this strategic shift,” Carlson explained.

“Carlingwood, as a landmark shopping destination for the Ottawa region, is a tremendous opportunity to kick off this strategy.”

Anthem and Streamliner did not immediately respond to requests for further comment on Monday.

The Carlingwood purchase is the largest transaction in Ottawa’s retail sector since KingSett Capital acquired Ivanhoe Cambridge’s 50 per cent stake in Bayshore Shopping Centre for $193.5 million in 2021.

The deal suggests the National Capital Region continues to be a bright spot for investors as space remains at a premium and overall sales keep rising.

A report earlier this year from brokerage firm Marcus & Millichap said Ottawa’s retail vacancy rate hit an all-time low in 2023. The firm predicted the rate will fall another tenth of a percentage point to about 1.5 per cent this year, “making Ottawa one of the tightest retail markets in 2024.”

While some industry observers are forecasting a slowdown in retail sales growth this year, Anthem and Streamliner said the Ottawa market “continues to be strong” with “material positive absorption and low vacancy rates.”

However, some experts argue Carlingwood’s true long-term value lies more in residential development than in its retail component.

“This is a real-estate play,” Carleton University professor Ian Lee, who teaches marketing at the Sprott School of Business, told OBJ last summer. “The buyer will not be buying this because they want to become a shopping mall operator so much as to get that land.”

Considered a “suburban” mall when it first opened, Carlingwood has become comparatively closer to the city centre as Ottawa has grown, Lee noted, making it a desirable spot for residential development that’s not quite downtown but still easily accessible to the core.

“As the centre of gravity shifts westward, that land becomes more valuable,” he explained.

“How many large-area, flat-surface parking lots are … sitting around in prime parts of Ottawa? That land is too valuable now to just sit there as a parking lot. They will develop that land, and I’m sure that they will be developing it into condo towers, because then you can really maximize your return on that land.”

Toronto-based retail analyst Bruce Winder agreed, telling OBJ in an interview last July the mall’s new owners will likely look to get the most out of their purchase by redeveloping land that’s currently being underutilized as parking.

“That’s probably the biggest trend right now with malls that are sort of in that category,” Winder said. “(Carlingwood) has obviously got some good anchors. I think maybe the opportunity is to build around those anchors. You create this city within a city.”

https://obj.ca/carlingwood-shopping-centre-sold/

[rdaner]

Interesting. It looks like this site is less than a km from two future lrt stations.