PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread II

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Well the benefit of gentrification in our cities is that it is reducing the concentration of poverty. I know most people don't look at it that way, but I do. You can't imagine what you can't see and when you grew up in an environment where nearly everyone is poor and either not educated formally or in a trade, then you don't even realize what you're missing out on. Or, if you do, you don't have access to the networks that would enable you to improve your circumstances.

This is why I ABHOR the Inquirer's take on Philly's improving statistics on income and poverty. Because as with all things Inqy, it assumes that the data is a result of new people with higher incomes pushing existing residents out, when in certain cases it's clearly not the case. Incomes didn't increase by 100% in ten years in Fairhill because gentrifiers pushed out existing residents. My assumption is its entirely because the circumstances of the typical person in the neighborhood improved. Further, even if there was some modicum of "gentrification", what's so bad about it if the outcomes are that good.

Right. Communities that are economically and socially diverse and integrated do best for society. It opens up more opportunities more evenly and reduces the downstream impacts of centralized poverty.

Ultimately, we need revitalization that is carefully planned so it benefits all.

[el don]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Right. Communities that are economically and socially diverse and integrated do best for society. It opens up more opportunities more evenly and reduces the downstream impacts of centralized poverty.

Ultimately, we need revitalization that is carefully planned so it benefits all.

Honest question, has Philly ever had an economically and socially diverse community in it's history? Are there examples of this in the world?


My family comes from/still lives in the Fulton projects in Manhattan, which is in the middle of wealth. there is no mixing between the rich and the poor there besides crime.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by el don

Honest question, has Philly ever had an economically and socially diverse community in it's history? Are there examples of this in the world?


My family comes from/still lives in the Fulton projects in Manhattan, which is in the middle of wealth. there is no mixing between the rich and the poor there besides crime.

Project Developments like Fulton only exacerbate the idea that he is talking about. They essentially create a walled city of poor inside a rich area. ScreamShatter is more referring to the idea of dense neighborhoods with an even mix of poor and rich occupying the buildings and homes.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by el don

Honest question, has Philly ever had an economically and socially diverse community in it's history? Are there examples of this in the world?


My family comes from/still lives in the Fulton projects in Manhattan, which is in the middle of wealth. there is no mixing between the rich and the poor there besides crime.

It’s a good question. I was thinking about that as well lately. Coming from CA, the divide is even more stark there than the east coast imo. It’s beginning to feel more like South Africa with the uber wealthy living in manicured gated communities with a massive poor labor class living around them, not to mention drugs/crime. 10-20 years ago it wasn’t as apparent.

[chimpskibot]

Originally Posted by el don

Honest question, has Philly ever had an economically and socially diverse community in it's history? Are there examples of this in the world?


My family comes from/still lives in the Fulton projects in Manhattan, which is in the middle of wealth. there is no mixing between the rich and the poor there besides crime.

yes I would consider large parts of the NE especially around Cottman Ave to be very socially and economically diverse. The same thing could be said for parts of Germantown and Mt.Airy as well as West Philly (spruce hill) up until about 4/5 yrs ago.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by el don

Honest question, has Philly ever had an economically and socially diverse community in it's history? Are there examples of this in the world?


My family comes from/still lives in the Fulton projects in Manhattan, which is in the middle of wealth. there is no mixing between the rich and the poor there besides crime.

My brother married a girl who's family had a 3 bedroom apartment in the Fulton Projects. It was wild. They lived there for 5 years and paid $205/mo utilities included.

As others have said, this is NOT an example of an economically diverse community. It was the destitute living in squalor among the richest population in the world.

Crazy.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by el don

Honest question, has Philly ever had an economically and socially diverse community in it's history? Are there examples of this in the world?


My family comes from/still lives in the Fulton projects in Manhattan, which is in the middle of wealth. there is no mixing between the rich and the poor there besides crime.

mt. airy is an example.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by cardeza

mt. airy is an example.

Lots of urban neighborhoods are examples. There's plenty of mixed income folks living jowl to jowl in Philadelphia rowhomes.

It only seems to become and issue when higher income people start to move into very low income neighborhoods. I get the concern, but most Philadelphia neighborhoods before white flight were pretty much mixed income. You have many blocks with modest 2 story rowhomes next to grander 3 and 4 story rowhomes. Some are single unit housing some are cut up into even smaller apartments. It's the very definition of mixed income.

In Fishtown, you have newcomers in $1MM plus townhomes living next door to old timers in very modest rowhomes on the same block as rowhomes carved up into 3 and 4 small apartments. In the Mt Airy section of Philadelphia you have some blocks with 2 story rowhomes, some with 3 story row homes, some with grand mansions. On top of that, there are apartments smattered all Mt Airy and a mix of co-ops (some very cheaply priced) and condos in owner occupied multi-family homes.

I think the only really nice area of Philly that I wouldn't consider mixed income is Society Hill. It's uniformly owner occupied very large townhomes that are typically renovated. Few are carved up into apartments and when they are, they're pretty grand.

[Raja]

Originally Posted by chimpskibot

yes I would consider large parts of the NE especially around Cottman Ave to be very socially and economically diverse. The same thing could be said for parts of Germantown and Mt.Airy as well as West Philly (spruce hill) up until about 4/5 yrs ago.

QV too. My little block alone has houses ranging from $220k to $3m. It's more economically diverse than people realize.

[3rd&Brown]

In the long line of GOOD BUT reporting from the Inqy.

https://www.inquirer.com/business/re...-20240509.html

La Colombe workers got raises and perks after Chobani bought the company. But will the iconic Philly coffee brand stay the same?

In the long list of positives. The companies are culturally aligned. Chobani's CEO LOVES Philadelphia and thinks its a critical part of La Colombe's brand DNA. HQ will stay in Philadelphia and they're going to be taking office space above and beyond its tiny presence in Fishtown. Barista's got a $2 hour raise, get health insurance, equity (in the company).

BUT....one guy got his hours cut so can we trust anything else we're hearing.

It's insufferable at this point.

Meanwhile, over in another publication I'm reading, Miami is talking about 40K sf of office space Apple is taking in Miami in a way would make you think Apple was abandoning Cupertino for Miami. Like literally the comments section is full of civic boosters talking about Democrap cities and why wouldn't you be anywhere else other than Miami. Meanwhile, the office is probably for a gaggle of Latin American sales and marketing people.

[MAF1968]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

This makes me so happy.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/philad...-20240507.html

“There’s nowhere for us to even be,” said Gary Kidd, 46, who’s from Sellersville but has been in Kensington on and off for the past couple of years. “There’s nowhere for us to sit down.”

“People are going further from [Kensington] Ave: indoors, West Philly, Tioga, the counties,” said Tori McDowell, a staffer at Savage Sisters who is in recovery.

Just a few comments, as we're all aware.
1. Notice Mr Kidd is from Sellersville. IMO, Mr Kidd can go back to Sellersville.
2. I took my mom to lunch last week at Terrain in Glen Mills and I kid you not there were a handful of junkies hanging out at the intersections of Rt1 and 322 in Concord Township. Then I saw another one at the next light which is the entrance to Terrain. I don't know why, but it made me so happy. Never in my entire life have I seen anything like it in that part of the burbs. It's not Philadelphia's job to shoulder the burden of drug addicts from the entire region.

Anyway. Happy Tuesday!

I work at Engine-25 in Kensington. 30 over dose calls since 8:00 am yesterday morning. That's for the Engine. Two medic units in the same station and I haven't checked on what they did the last 24 hours but I'm certain they got crushed too. No one went anywhere. The drugs are in Kensington. The drug addicts will stay in Kensington. Ruth Street today had a report of 15 overdoses going on at the same time. It's going to be a long summer.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by MAF1968

No one went anywhere. The drugs are in Kensington. The drug addicts will stay in Kensington. Ruth Street today had a report of 15 overdoses going on at the same time. It's going to be a long summer.

I think the primary purpose of this was to break up the concentration and make it clear that public selling and using is no longer city sanctioned. They stated that this was a preliminary action.

[mcgrath618]

40 Apartments Done and a Big Home in Progress for 500 Block of Poplar in NoLibs

A rare occurrence of the finished product looking an order of magnitude better than the rendering! Usually it's the other way around.

Rendering:


Result:

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

40 Apartments Done and a Big Home in Progress for 500 Block of Poplar in NoLibs

A rare occurrence of the finished product looking an order of magnitude better than the rendering! Usually it's the other way around.

^ I thought the same thing when I read the article. A little bit of design integrity (and larger windows) goes a long way.

And yay for several street trees.

[PHLtoNYC]

Some righteous Fishtownies will have their panties in a knot over this.

Starbucks signs lease for long-proposed Fishtown store along Frankford Avenue
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...rd-avenue.html

The Seattle-headquartered coffee chain giant has signed a lease to occupy the ground-floor space at 1405 Frankford Ave., said Jacob Cooper, one of the MSC brokers who represented the landlord in the deal. The four-story mixed-use development, which includes 30 residential condominiums, is owned by Charlotte, North Carolina, real estate investment firm Asana Partners.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by MAF1968

I work at Engine-25 in Kensington. 30 over dose calls since 8:00 am yesterday morning. That's for the Engine. Two medic units in the same station and I haven't checked on what they did the last 24 hours but I'm certain they got crushed too. No one went anywhere. The drugs are in Kensington. The drug addicts will stay in Kensington. Ruth Street today had a report of 15 overdoses going on at the same time. It's going to be a long summer.

Wow. Thanks for doing what you do.

From a first responder point of view, do you think the city response to this issue in Kensington is the right approach? There seems to be a divide with one side advocating for more social services like injection sites and the other side aimed at more treatment and enforcement based policies.

Just wondering what you all thought?

Thanks again for your service.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Lots of urban neighborhoods are examples. There's plenty of mixed income folks living jowl to jowl in Philadelphia rowhomes.

It only seems to become and issue when higher income people start to move into very low income neighborhoods. I get the concern, but most Philadelphia neighborhoods before white flight were pretty much mixed income. You have many blocks with modest 2 story rowhomes next to grander 3 and 4 story rowhomes. Some are single unit housing some are cut up into even smaller apartments. It's the very definition of mixed income.

In Fishtown, you have newcomers in $1MM plus townhomes living next door to old timers in very modest rowhomes on the same block as rowhomes carved up into 3 and 4 small apartments. In the Mt Airy section of Philadelphia you have some blocks with 2 story rowhomes, some with 3 story row homes, some with grand mansions. On top of that, there are apartments smattered all Mt Airy and a mix of co-ops (some very cheaply priced) and condos in owner occupied multi-family homes.

I think the only really nice area of Philly that I wouldn't consider mixed income is Society Hill. It's uniformly owner occupied very large townhomes that are typically renovated. Few are carved up into apartments and when they are, they're pretty grand.

chestnut hill is not economically diverse

[el don]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Lots of urban neighborhoods are examples. There's plenty of mixed income folks living jowl to jowl in Philadelphia rowhomes.

It only seems to become and issue when higher income people start to move into very low income neighborhoods. I get the concern, but most Philadelphia neighborhoods before white flight were pretty much mixed income. You have many blocks with modest 2 story rowhomes next to grander 3 and 4 story rowhomes. Some are single unit housing some are cut up into even smaller apartments. It's the very definition of mixed income.

In Fishtown, you have newcomers in $1MM plus townhomes living next door to old timers in very modest rowhomes on the same block as rowhomes carved up into 3 and 4 small apartments. In the Mt Airy section of Philadelphia you have some blocks with 2 story rowhomes, some with 3 story row homes, some with grand mansions. On top of that, there are apartments smattered all Mt Airy and a mix of co-ops (some very cheaply priced) and condos in owner occupied multi-family homes.

I think the only really nice area of Philly that I wouldn't consider mixed income is Society Hill. It's uniformly owner occupied very large townhomes that are typically renovated. Few are carved up into apartments and when they are, they're pretty grand.

So there is no place where people in abject poverty and those with wealth mix then. The places in North that were alluded to are decrepit and are full of the supremely poor.

Also, if you grow up poor and then make money you move away from other poor people to a nicer neighborhood (wealthier). Anyone who grew up poor knows this. Why would people with wealth want to voluntarily live with poor people when poor people wouldn't want to live with other poor people if they had money?

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by el don

So there is no place where people in abject poverty and those with wealth mix then. The places in North that were alluded to are decrepit and are full of the supremely poor.

Also, if you grow up poor and then make money you move away from other poor people to a nicer neighborhood (wealthier). Anyone who grew up poor knows this. Why would people with wealth want to voluntarily live with poor people when poor people wouldn't want to live with other poor people if they had money?

You don't need "abject poverty" for a successful mixed-income model. Those are individuals in the bottom 1% of the economic bell curve that are in desperate need of assistance to be re-integrated into sustainable employment opportunities.

The mixed-income model is most successful for households with at some stable employment income, moreso folks earning at least 50% of the median household income, probably up to around 150% of the median household income, which covers a very wide spectrum of earners. In a nutshell, it's the span of working class to upper-middle class earners.

Even if the income extremes aren't best for the mixed-income model, that doesn't mean it's not a worthwhile outcome to help achieve stable and livable neighborhoods, especially on the crime reduction front.

[blart]

5/11

W. Allen St and Germantown Ave, behind the Piazza