219-223 Bank St + 178 Nepean St | 32m | 9f | Proposed

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

This tends to be my opinion on it too...

Great, some early entrants got in decades ago and are now living in the heart of Centretown for $500/mo while a block away, I pay $1900. If we're talking about fairness, where's the fairness in that?

The other aspect is retail - if we want to get serious about improving vibrancy in Centretown we can't have entire blocks on major streets like Bank almost entirely vacant of retail tenants.

It's easy to feel bad for those being displaced, but overall projects like this align with our goals as a city in terms of housing and revitalization.

Not to mention, someone in that building loves illegally feeding wildlife, leading to toxic pigeon sh*t blanketing the sidewalk and street.

Banks st, north of Somerset is a wasteland at the moment. I walked from Rideau to Billings a few days ago and I want to say 50% of the storefronts are vacant.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

Banks st, north of Somerset is a wasteland at the moment. I walked from Rideau to Billings a few days ago and I want to say 50% of the storefronts are vacant.

Frankly, it would still be a wasteland even if the storefronts were not vacant.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Frankly, it would still be a wasteland even if the storefronts were not vacant.

What do you mean by this?

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Frankly, it would still be a wasteland even if the storefronts were not vacant.

If you’re referring to the addiction crisis, that’s certainly an issue but nothing out of the ordinary for big Canadian cities these days. In fact Ottawa is on the lower end of the spectrum in terms of severity compared to others. People are still coming to Bank in droves, and similar to Rideau St., foot traffic is through the roof most parts of the day despite the ever-present social challenges. Empty storefronts shift a lot of attention to other issues, and building better retail spaces that businesses actually want to occupy will do wonders for Bank north of Somerset, similar to what has happened to Bank south of Somerset, especially between Gladstone to the 417.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

If you’re referring to the addiction crisis, that’s certainly an issue but nothing out of the ordinary for big Canadian cities these days. In fact Ottawa is on the lower end of the spectrum in terms of severity compared to others. People are still coming to Bank in droves, and similar to Rideau St., foot traffic is through the roof most parts of the day despite the ever-present social challenges. Empty storefronts shift a lot of attention to other issues, and building better retail spaces that businesses actually want to occupy will do wonders for Bank north of Somerset, similar to what has happened to Bank south of Somerset, especially between Gladstone to the 417.

I was not. Is that stretch particularly problematic?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by phil235

What do you mean by this?

I mean it's tacky, run down and generally low end. I can't think of anything specific that would draw me there on a regular basis.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I was not. Is that stretch particularly problematic?

By Ottawa standards, yes. But as a nearby resident I find it laughable when people say they avoid that area out of fear for their safety.

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I mean it's tacky, run down and generally low end. I can't think of anything specific that would draw me there on a regular basis.

Isn’t that exactly the point of tearing down vacant, rundown blocks and replacing them with more dense housing and modern retail spaces?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

If you’re referring to the addiction crisis, that’s certainly an issue but nothing out of the ordinary for big Canadian cities these days. In fact Ottawa is on the lower end of the spectrum in terms of severity compared to others. People are still coming to Bank in droves, and similar to Rideau St., foot traffic is through the roof most parts of the day despite the ever-present social challenges. Empty storefronts shift a lot of attention to other issues, and building better retail spaces that businesses actually want to occupy will do wonders for Bank north of Somerset, similar to what has happened to Bank south of Somerset, especially between Gladstone to the 417.

I'm not sure I agree. Having been in Toronto, Montreal and Calgary over the past 12 months none have the situation Ottawa does. I know some of that is geography. I know Vancouver's situation even pre-pandemic was worse but something we are doing in Ottawa has led to a rapid deterioration. The lack of return to work here doesn't help but I think it's the unique disdain Ottawa has for its downtown that is a big reason. The police openly defying the mayor's promise to open a station by putting it in the Rideau Centre is a good example.

[DTcrawler]

From what I saw Montreal was similar to Ottawa, most people simply sitting on the sidewalk or sleeping with the occasional semi-aggressive panhandler or tweaker.

In Toronto, far more aggressive and threatening behaviour, and one thing that really stuck with me was when I saw nearly every public bench in the tree’d area just south of Nathan Phillips Square occupied by people tripping and openly using hard drugs. Not just one or two people like you might see elsewhere but at least one or two dozen. Though I was back a month later and the issue seemed much less pronounced that time so a lot of it is timing.

As for Edmonton and Calgary, granted I visit those two cities far less often but in my most recent visit to Calgary (early 2023) locals seemed adamant that violent crime is truly an ever-present threat anytime you’re downtown. And indeed a quick google search about violent crime and open drug use in public spaces, especially on transit property, in those two cities tells you a lot. Given that they’re the two most similarly sized cities to Ottawa out of Canada’s top 6, it’s the most accurate comparison I’d say.

But if Ottawa is indeed worsening at a faster rate than other cities that’s a huge concern. I agree with the factors you mentioned posing the biggest challenge to changing course. I’d argue the attitudes of urban councillors towards the addiction crisis is as big, if not bigger, of a roadblock than suburban attitudes. Just reading Councillor Troster’s take about this development in her weekly newsletter yesterday made me gag.

[ponyboycurtis]

When I said wasteland I was mostly referring to the vacant storefronts. Perhaps I should have been a little bit more clear in the regard. That stretch of Bank st seems about 'average' for areas with higher amounts vagrancy.

I randomly ended up in Hamilton for a couple days during early pandemic. I want to say May. Walking along King st I was amazed at how many shuttered abandoned storefronts there were. I recall thinking to myself how grateful I was that I couldn't think of a single spot in Ottawa that looked like that. While that stretch of Bank might have been on its way out at that time, it didn't look like it does now.

It's a bit heartbreaking that most of the business that have shuttered were all independent. The city should really REALLY do something with that fenced courtyard. Put a pair of food trucks there and give them good incentive to do so. There is a spot in Toronto on Yonge st a block north of Dundas square, across from Ryerson that has a corner lot filled with food trucks. Its always busy.

If I was night Mayor doing something with that chunk of land would be my first order of business.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I mean it's tacky, run down and generally low end. I can't think of anything specific that would draw me there on a regular basis.

Ah, though if the stores were full, that may not be the case.

With everything on the Wallack’s block moving, there are lots of vacant stretches of retail north of Lisgar. That said, there are still some restaurants worth the trip like Toro tacos or Sansotei Ramen and an excellent bakery (Bread and Sons) that is bustling. It’s clearly transitioning from businesses servicing office workers, but as was pointed out, foot traffic is really high and all is not lost.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I'm not sure I agree. Having been in Toronto, Montreal and Calgary over the past 12 months none have the situation Ottawa does.

Arguably Ottawa has unique challenges with so many shelters in its primary tourist area. That said, I’m not sure you went the right places in Montreal or Toronto. Both have major homeless encampments in downtown parks, which Ottawa does not. The situation on the TTC is also much worse than here.

[J.OT13]

retail units are vacant because they are poorly maintained, or the rest is too high, or the owners aren't actively looking for new tenants.

As for the people who live in that apartment block, maybe they are not financially capable of renting something that is 3, 4, 5 times the cost. Are we ready to grow the homeless population?

Yes, there is a housing crisis, but more than that, there is an affordable housing crisis. Someone who can afford $2k-3$k+ per month will find something. Someone who can only afford something below $1k can not.

Unfortunately, current policies accept, even encourage, demolishing existing structurally sound buildings. Current policies do not encourage developing parking lots. They don't force big box developments to include housing. Removing parking minimums is a good start, but we should be working on redeveloping existing parking lots.

I look at Minto's development on 5th, that preserved the heritage retail block at the front and develop the rear with a new mid-rise. I wish we would see more of that.

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

retail units are vacant because they are poorly maintained, or the rest is too high, or the owners aren't actively looking for new tenants.

As for the people who live in that apartment block, maybe they are not financially capable of renting something that is 3, 4, 5 times the cost. Are we ready to grow the homeless population?

Yes, there is a housing crisis, but more than that, there is an affordable housing crisis. Someone who can afford $2k-3$k+ per month will find something. Someone who can only afford something below $1k can not.

Unfortunately, current policies accept, even encourage, demolishing existing structurally sound buildings. Current policies do not encourage developing parking lots. They don't force big box developments to include housing. Removing parking minimums is a good start, but we should be working on redeveloping existing parking lots.

I look at Minto's development on 5th, that preserved the heritage retail block at the front and develop the rear with a new mid-rise. I wish we would see more of that.

Just stop, repeating falsehoods wont make them true.

Ottawa policy focuses heavily on redevelopment of big box retail, and TOD. It's pretty much the only place density is allowed as of right.

But that doesn't mean that's where people want to build or is available for development and the city should not ne relying on one option.

Everywhere needs to be open to redevelopment but instead The new zoning bylaw directly calls out the protection of SFH in is policy.

Remove the trees, remove the old worn down buildings, build higher denser. Build as much as possible as fast as possible regardless of what the locals want, they don't own the property.

[rocketphish]

Tenants' fight against 'demoviction' earns sympathy at city hall
Developer says offering existing tenants comparable rents 'not financially viable'

Arthur White-Crummey · CBC News
Posted: Dec 04, 2024 5:09 PM EST | Last Updated: 15 minutes ago



A group of downtown Ottawa tenants pleaded with a city committee on Wednesday to block the demolition of their homes, moving councillors to take a rare step they hope will pressure the developer to offer a better deal.

Smart Living Properties wants to tear down four buildings on a block of Bank Street between Nepean and Lisgar streets, replacing 25 affordable units with 263 units at much higher market rates.

Just 11 tenants remain in the buildings. Some are on pensions or disability payments. Others are artists, while still others are students. They told councillors that their rent-controlled apartments are the only things saving them from homelessness.

"For the first time in my life, I will be without a home, at 67 years of age," said Nicole Seguin, a tenant of more than 35 years whose sister read a statement on her behalf. "I do not know what will happen to me, and this causes an immense stress."

Seguin pays just $454 a month for her one-bedroom apartment, but the developer estimates that a studio in the new building will rent in the $1,600 range.

Another tenant, Ben Emond, pays just $750 for a two-bedroom apartment and says his rent would triple were he forced to move out.

<more>

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/te...on-earns-sympathy-at-city-hall-1.7401346

[DTcrawler]

Well, if this goes ahead, I certainly won't miss the jacka** in that building who constantly feeds the pigeons, leaving everything in the vicinity of the building covered in toxic pigeon sh*t. Can't be good for whatever people are growing (and planning on eating?) in the small community garden next door.

[FutureWickedCity]

Maybe the city find them affordable units at Gladstone Village when it's finished. Unless they're all spoken for already

[J.OT13]

I'm never a fan of demolishing an existing complete block of heritage building. The waste, the loss of deeply affordable housing, the loss of, well heritage.

The whole "Smart Living Properties and its representatives argued for their project, saying it would "revitalize" a block of abandoned storefronts and create far more housing on the site." YOU'RE THE ONES WHO ABANDONED THE STOREFRONTS! The buildings are looking tired and neglected because YOU neglected them!!

I appreciate they'll keep the facades, but even then, it becomes sterile. It doesn't have the same feel and vibe of an older, gritty North American city.

From the other perspective, I'm not sure how promising tenants units in the new building helps them. Where will they go for 4 years during construction?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm never a fan of demolishing an existing complete block of heritage building. The waste, the loss of deeply affordable housing, the loss of, well heritage.

The whole "Smart Living Properties and its representatives argued for their project, saying it would "revitalize" a block of abandoned storefronts and create far more housing on the site." YOU'RE THE ONES WHO ABANDONED THE STOREFRONTS! The buildings are looking tired and neglected because YOU neglected them!!

I appreciate they'll keep the facades, but even then, it becomes sterile. It doesn't have the same feel and vibe of an older, gritty North American city.

From the other perspective, I'm not sure how promising tenants units in the new building helps them. Where will they go for 4 years during construction?

How long has Smart Properties owned the block? I didn't get the sense the there was a big decline in condition in the last few years. The stores have only become vacant recently, so they haven't sat on a deteriorating block very long.

I'm sympathetic to the tenants, but given the importance of investment in that stretch of Bank, I'm not seeing how this delay is in the bigger interest. Status quo is not a real option. The real issue isn't the developer's actions, it's the lack of affordable housing and support at the municipal and provincial levels. I find it a bit rich for Ottawa city councillors to be slagging the developer when the City hasn't exactly been a leader when it comes to innovation in support programs. They are also just delaying things, as there is no real prospect of them being successful in blocking the project. The developer doesn't have a legal obligation to do anything, so it's really just a moral question where the City shares as much or more of the blame.

A related question - I thought Smart Living was having financial troubles. Is that no longer the case?

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by phil235

A related question - I thought Smart Living was having financial troubles. Is that no longer the case?

Not sure, but the property management of some of their properties (including the one on Osgoode Street) is now run by Dwell Properties, which I'm sure is an arms length holding company. I'm sure there are a myriad of companies all controlled by just a few people there.