Manitoba Highways - Page 118

Carboy15 · #**2341** Posted **Feb 19, 2024, 10:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

If M.T.I. twins TCH around Falcon Lake and eliminates all the at-grade cross roads, that’s at least 10 KM of divided freeway in Manitoba.

And on the North Perimeter between Main and Lagimodiere, that's what I consider a full freeway. If St. Annes and the CP grade seperation, we could have another partial freeway between Waverley and Lagimodiere. The Perimeter is so close, yet so far from becoming a full freeway, but I can see it happen. Hope all the traffic lights are removed first before any new minor road bridges.

Carboy15 · #**2342** Posted **Feb 23, 2024, 3:08 AM**

https://imgur.com/a/ifVnZQe

Going back to Hwy 3 Improvements, I think that there are an absurd amount of intersections and there is a lack of innovative intersections. The new intersections should include RCUT and a Median U-turn Intersection. And I would merge the William R. Clement and Bishop Grandin Intersection with Loudoun Road. That way we would only require 3 intersections in that area. The RCUT intersections could go without lights for a while and be easily installed when necessary.

Carboy15 · #**2343** Posted **Feb 24, 2024, 6:53 PM**

https://www.northernontariobusiness....faster-7912433

Has this been considered in Manitoba or other parts of Western Canada? Not just in Manitoba, but Saskatchewan and Alberta could use this too. Twinning may not be affordable in certain places, so this should be considered as it would be more affordable.

Eg. Such as Hwy 1 in Whiteshell Provincial park, Hwy 16 in Manitoba and Saskatchewan (undivided portion), Hwy 6 from Perimeter to Warren?

bodaggin · #**2344** Posted **Feb 24, 2024, 7:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carboy15

time-to-rethink-highway-twinning

Has this been considered in Manitoba or other parts of Western Canada?

Good posts Carboy. This makes excellent sense on some "secondary interstates" so to speak. Like Yellowhead as you mention, or Hwy 10. You can start by adding passing lanes. Then more passing lanes to a 2+1. Then finally a fully twinned SINGLE carriageway by adding the final extra lane for 4 lanes on the same carriageway. It's a great stepping stone strategy toward twinning that doesn't require moving the entire roadway all at once.

For TCH and known main routes, I still prefer traditional dual carriageway.

Good points on R-Cuts also. City roads and artery roads are where you put them. Like you proposed. Not 110kph TCH freeways like WSP proposed by Carberry lol As long as there isn't heavy truck semi traffic. Then, reconsider R-Cut etc. They have a place though.

Carboy15 · #**2345** Posted **Feb 24, 2024, 9:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodaggin

Good posts Carboy. This makes excellent sense on some "secondary interstates" so to speak. Like Yellowhead as you mention, or Hwy 10. You can start by adding passing lanes. Then more passing lanes to a 2+1. Then finally a fully twinned SINGLE carriageway by adding the final extra lane for 4 lanes on the same carriageway. It's a great stepping stone strategy toward twinning that doesn't require moving the entire roadway all at once.

It would also take less time to twin the road and it would be safer within a short amount of time. I'm wondering if this would help on Highway 59 South of Winnipeg going towards Niverville? It may be hard because of multiple houses alongside Hwy 59, so they would have to move the road over anyways. I think that this Highway style is needed the most in Saskatchewan and Alberta. Hwy 22X from Gleichen AB (Hwy 901) to Stoney Trail Calgary could very well use this and RCUT Intersections too. Hwy 7 in Saskatchewan and Yellowhead from Saskatoon to Manitoba could really use this 2+1 highway.

Quote:

For TCH and known main routes, I still prefer traditional dual carriageway.

I see what you're thinking about a divided highway being better. But at the same time on Hwy 16 for example, they would and could have divided intersections at major corners. But if they would freeway the road in the long term, then a barrier in between the lanes would feel like Hwy 401 and the Autobahn system in Germany.

Quote:

Good points on R-Cuts also. City roads and artery roads are where you put them. Like you proposed. Not 110kph TCH freeways like WSP proposed by Carberry lol As long as there isn't heavy truck semi traffic. Then, reconsider R-Cut etc. They have a place though.

For areas where they would have heavy truck traffic, I would add a little lane on the other side of the road making it easier for trucks to turn, and add traffic lights to the RCUT in the process.

3de14eec6a · #**2346** Posted **Feb 26, 2024, 2:44 PM**

We do have a bunch of 2+1 in the province. The ones I can think of are in the Carman-Morden area. But I definitely think they should be used more.

WildCake · #**2347** Posted **Feb 26, 2024, 4:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3de14eec6a

We do have a bunch of 2+1 in the province. The ones I can think of are in the Carman-Morden area. But I definitely think they should be used more.

Yellowhead between the TCH and Minnedosa has a lot of passing lanes. It's not a 2+1 by definition because (I think) there has to be the 3 lanes the entire length, but the passing lanes are very frequent and keeps traffic moving well.

There is also a lot of reminder signage to indicate the next set of passing lanes to help dissuade some impatient drivers that might want to take a risky pass.

Carboy15 · #**2348** Posted **Feb 27, 2024, 12:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildCake

Yellowhead between the TCH and Minnedosa has a lot of passing lanes. It's not a 2+1 by definition because (I think) there has to be the 3 lanes the entire length, but the passing lanes are very frequent and keeps traffic moving well.

There is also a lot of reminder signage to indicate the next set of passing lanes to help dissuade some impatient drivers that might want to take a risky pass.

I think that passing lanes at least understand the idea of a 2+1 highway. They're not as good as a 2+1, but they're an okay short term solution. Passing lanes IMO are good as a temporary short term solution on highways that cannot justify twinning. A 2+1 could be easily installed on Hwy 16 as it already has passing lanes.

Maybe Hwy 59 South of Ile des Chenes should have passing lanes, but unfortunately it may conflict with the local accesses alongside the highway.

3de14eec6a · #**2349** Posted **Feb 27, 2024, 1:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildCake

Yellowhead between the TCH and Minnedosa has a lot of passing lanes. It's not a 2+1 by definition because (I think) there has to be the 3 lanes the entire length, but the passing lanes are very frequent and keeps traffic moving well.

There is also a lot of reminder signage to indicate the next set of passing lanes to help dissuade some impatient drivers that might want to take a risky pass.

A fair, that's probably the sort I was thinking of. But it is definitely a massive step above standard 2 lane. And the 59 south of the 210 should 100% get that treatment or full 2+1 to St. Malo (I do know there are plans of full twinning to the 52).

Any main (single/double digit) PTHs should be upgraded as well the next times they get surfacing. I don't recall seeing any on the 3 during the recent resurface, which is a shame (hoping my brain was just off and they actually did).

bodaggin · #**2350** Posted **Feb 27, 2024, 3:43 PM**

One thing I remembered on 2+1's or passing lanes is they tend to "separate". I noticed this on Hwy 16. The passing lanes began separating from the original roadway, because they were built at different times. Pretty big cracks had formed.

They patched this up, but maybe the engineers here can explain how deep this issue goes. If it's fixed after the "initial settle" and a surface patch. Or if it's an ongoing issue for the life of the road.

Carboy15 · #**2351** Posted **Feb 27, 2024, 11:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3de14eec6a

A fair, that's probably the sort I was thinking of. But it is definitely a massive step above standard 2 lane. And the 59 south of the 210 should 100% get that treatment or full 2+1 to St. Malo (I do know there are plans of full twinning to the 52).

Any main (single/double digit) PTHs should be upgraded as well the next times they get surfacing. I don't recall seeing any on the 3 during the recent resurface, which is a shame (hoping my brain was just off and they actually did).

Unfortunately they didn't while resurfacing 59, which I wasn't surprised because 59 between 52 and 210 doesn't even have it. That's where 59 needs it the most, between 52 and 210.

P.S. On 59 where they have multiple houses beside each other, the province or municipalities should invest in mini service roads. Like three or so houses can be accessed by one service road. That's probably why passing lanes might not work. Twinning 59 may not be as viable as traffic during non-rush hour times is lighter. I cannot see Hwy 59 get twinned before Hwy 1 in Whiteshell gets twinned (and when will that happen hahaha?)

bomberjet · #**2352** Posted **Feb 28, 2024, 2:54 PM**

That exact stretch of PTH 59, and PTH 52 into Steinbach are on the short list for twinning. Slated to begin in the next couple years. Note it shows PTH 1 twinning as ongoing now. So maybe the start of design work for PTH 59 will be in the next couple years, following on from the PTH 1 design and hopefully twinning in the next few years.

Page 60 of the PDF here:
https://www.gov.mb.ca/mti/myhis/pdf/...t_strategy.pdf

Carboy15 · #**2353** Posted **Mar 2, 2024, 6:59 PM**

As of now for Hwy 1 twinning, the 700m stretch from the divided degment at the East End of Whiteshell to the Ontario Border is being twinned. I'm sure by the end of this decade or early next decade Hwy 1 can be fully twinned across Manitoba.

Hwy 59 Manitoba may be more expensive as it may require a realignment. The current alignment has multiple houses alongside the route, so they would have to be demolished or moved. In which I don't believe in destroying houses to build roads through (unless they're old and abandoned, but people still live there). Doing so is 50's style planning and barbaric.

WildCake · #**2354** Posted **Mar 2, 2024, 8:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carboy15

As of now for Hwy 1 twinning, the 700m stretch from the divided degment at the East End of Whiteshell to the Ontario Border is being twinned. I'm sure by the end of this decade or early next decade Hwy 1 can be fully twinned across Manitoba.

Hwy 59 Manitoba may be more expensive as it may require a realignment. The current alignment has multiple houses alongside the route, so they would have to be demolished or moved. In which I don't believe in destroying houses to build roads through (unless they're old and abandoned, but people still live there). Doing so is 50's style planning and barbaric.

They'll probably run it between the mile road to the west, there would only be a couple of farmhouses that would get the boot (assuming the run it mostly straight).

Carboy15 · #**2355** Posted **Mar 2, 2024, 8:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildCake

They'll probably run it between the mile road to the west, there would only be a couple of farmhouses that would get the boot (assuming the run it mostly straight).

I'd think so too. Or if not get the boot, but probably have to be moved a bit. I'd also think the intersections would be at grade as well.

Carboy15 · #**2356** Posted **Mar 2, 2024, 8:58 PM**

https://imgur.com/a/YPrtWma

This is how I'm thinking it would work.

Carboy15 · #**2357** Posted **Mar 5, 2024, 1:14 AM**

Hwy 52 Manitoba Twinning would be a bit wierd. It sits on a correction line and there are lots of local accesses alongside the highway. It would be a bit hard to decide which side would be lost when twinning the road. Also, the Highway is on a correction line, so we'd need at least 64km of new two lane road (including a repaving of Hwy 52, extra lane, and service roads on both sides).

Carboy15 · #**2358** Posted **Mar 10, 2024, 9:29 PM**

https://www.in.gov/indot/traffic-eng...ced-left-turn/

The displaced left turn intersection may work in many places in Canada. There is one in Charlottetown PEI, the first in Canada. There are some places this could possibly work in Manitoba, especially around Winnipeg.

Dengler Avenue · #**2359** Posted **Mar 10, 2024, 10:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carboy15

https://www.in.gov/indot/traffic-eng...ced-left-turn/

The displaced left turn intersection may work in many places in Canada. There is one in Charlottetown PEI, the first in Canada. There are some places this could possibly work in Manitoba, especially around Winnipeg.

IMO, displaced left turns make it very difficult to upgrade the intersection to an interchange later on (in terms of traffic staging).
I will need engineers to weigh in to see whether this is actually the case, though.

Carboy15 · #**2360** Posted **Mar 10, 2024, 11:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

IMO, displaced left turns make it very difficult to upgrade the intersection to an interchange later on (in terms of traffic staging).
I will need engineers to weigh in to see whether this is actually the case, though.

This may not be a great intersection for pedestrians I don't think. So it may not be great in Winnipeg, except maybe on Bishop Grandin, CPT, or Lagimodiere.

Or maybe when Hwy 59 is twinned, maybe at Hwy 311 that could work, Minnedosa, Brandon, etc.