1245 Kilborn Pl [Former Diocesan Seminary] Redevelopment | Proposed

[rocketphish]

City plans to buy former archdiocese property on Kilborn Place for supportive housing
A city report called the tentative $18.5-million deal a "unique and rare opportunity" to buy lands close to transit and amenities.

Blair Crawford, Ottawa Citizen
Published Aug 24, 2023 • Last updated 3 hours ago • 3 minute read



The city has reached a tentative $18.5-million deal to buy a former residence for Catholic priests near Billings Bridge that it intends to convert into supportive housing.

The massive Diocesan Centre at 1245 Kilborn Place sits on 8.7 acres of land that will eventually be developed for mixed-use by the city. The purchase is a private sale that must still be approved by city council.

“The acquisition of 1245 Kilborn Place is a unique and rare opportunity for the City to acquire lands in close proximity to transit, community services and amenities that could be utilized to meet future housing needs,” the city said in its report. “The negotiated price of $18.5 million is considered fair and reasonable.”

No one has lived in the building since 2019 and it has most recently been used for office space. Details of the transaction were published online by the city Thursday in advance of the Sept. 5 meeting of the Finance and Corporate Services Committee.

“Because it’s a financial transaction and not a planning transaction, it has had to be kept under wraps and there hasn’t been a lot of opportunity to communicate with the community,” said Alta Vista Coun. Marty Carr.

“I’ll be honest. It (the building) needs a lot of repairs before we can move anyone in there. But we’ll develop the rest of the property and we’ll work very closely with the community on that.”

If approved by council, the purchase from the Roman Catholic Episcopal Corporation of Ottawa will help ease the strain on the temporary shelters the city has been using since the pandemic began.

“We’re using our community centres as shelters and they’re overflowing with unhoused people,” said Carr. “I personally believe that’s the only way we’re going to get ahead of this: if the city does the acquisitions for the non-profit sector because it’s been impossible to find places to rent. That’s the sad part of it.

“When we started talking about the need for subsidized housing and supportive housing, that property became of interest. It’s already set up for close to 100 rooms,” Carr said. “I think that’s why the church was interested in selling to us, because they knew it would be used for this purpose.”

A church across the street from the Diocesan Centre is also up for sale, but it is not part of the city’s planned purchase. That it’s the city and not a private developer that’s interested in the former seminary should be good news for neighbours, Carr said.

Most of Alta Vista Ward is designated as “outer urban” in Ottawa’s official plan, but a sliver that includes the former seminary is designated as “inner urban” with higher density targets.

“There’s a long road ahead. Nothing is happening immediately,” she said.

“With the city being in control, we’ll make sure that the development there is low-rise and consistent with the surrounding community and there’s no threat of a private developer putting in a high-rise. That’s the positive spin for the community — there’s now an opportunity to consult about the development.”

Carr anticipates the residents in the neighbourhood will have questions about the city’s plans and the nature of supportive housing.

“Since the start of the pandemic, we’ve had people in Jim Durrell, Heron Road and Dempsey community centres. We’ve had people living in our community and there have been very few complaints. They’ve been integrated into this community already,” she said.

“Every community needs to take supportive housing. We have supportive housing in Kanata. We have supportive housing in Merivale. It’s the direction of all communities to move away from the shelter model.

“Supportive housing is not just for people who are mentally ill or have substance abuse. It’s for young mothers. It’s for new Canadians. It’s for people with physical disabilities. People’s notions of supportive housing have to change.”

Close to 400 people remain on the waitlist for supportive housing, Carr said.

The proposal will be debated at the Sept. 5 Finance and Corporate Services Committee meeting before going before the full city council for a final vote.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...-on-kilborn-place-for-affordable-housing

[zzptichka]

“With the city being in control, we’ll make sure that the development there is low-rise and consistent with the surrounding community and there’s no threat of a private developer putting in a high-rise.

How about no?

[rocketphish]

City eyes $18.5M church land for supportive housing
Alta Vista site home to seminary building that would need upgrades, archdiocese says

Guy Quenneville · CBC News
Posted: Aug 24, 2023 5:14 PM EDT | Last Updated: 4 hours ago

The City of Ottawa is seeking councillors' OK to spend $18.5 million on church lands to be used as a supportive housing site.

The land, which totals more than three hectares, sits at the northwest corner of Kilborn Place and Lamira Street on the western edge of Alta Vista.

The site is owned by the Archdiocese of Ottawa-Cornwall and includes a vacant building formerly used as an office, residence and a seminary where priests were trained.

The city says the negotiated price is considered reasonable and is asking councillors to approve the agreement of purchase and sale, according to a report to council's finance and corporate services committee made public on Thursday.

"There was no listed price for the property, but staff understood through discussions with the broker that the owner hoped to sell the property for approximately $20 million," according to the report.

The committee is scheduled to meet on Sept. 5. Council as a whole would also need to approve the deal.

The proposed purchase, which is pegged to the city's strategy on transitional housing, "is a unique and rare opportunity for the city to acquire lands in close proximity to transit, community services and amenities," according to the report.

If council approves the deal, years of work including community consultation would follow, according to the city.

The seminary building dates back to the 1950s. It was recently vacated because of asbestos, according to an April 2022 consultant's report commissioned by the archdiocese.

The archdiocese closed it down early during the COVID-19 pandemic, said Ivo Valentik, its director of real estate and facilities.

Then, in early 2023, the city asked the archdiocese if it could lease the building to temporarily shelter homeless people, Valentik said. The group put it on the market to see what it could fetch and the city made a formal offer.

"We're in negotiations and hopefully going to sell to them," Valentik said. "It needs work in order to be brought up to standards, which is one reason why we had to abandon it. We simply could not afford to continue to invest more money in it."

The city is well aware the building will require significant investment, said Marty Carr, the councillor representing the Alta Vista ward.

"They'll be undertaking that work in the coming months," she said.

According to the report to committee, the city has begun an audit "to determine the state, next steps and high-level financial implications of the existing improvement."

Carr said the building contains about 100 rooms that could be used for housing, whereas "community centres have been used consistently since March 2020 to house folks simply because the shelter system was over capacity."

Supportive housing is aimed at people who don't need emergency shelter, but require longer-term support.

"It can be a variety of needs, whether it means some nutrition and health, physical assistance. Counselling can be available," Carr said.

There are currently close to 400 people on the city's supportive housing waitlist, she added.

Kamal Fahs, a local business owner, described the neighbourhood as very quiet and mostly home to seniors.

"You don't see many youngsters here," he said.

The presence of transitional housing "might represent an issue to the neighborhood," Fahs said, pointing to high housing prices in the area.

"They don't want the action around here, let's put it [that] way," he said.

But the development might also bring more traffic to his business, he added.

The location is ideal because it's close to a lot of amenities, said Kaite Burkholder Harris, the executive director of the Alliance to End Homelessness Ottawa.

"It's close to Bank Street ... groceries, transit, all sorts of things," she said. "There's a lot of land, which is really exciting because there's potential to have a really beautiful mixed community here."

The archdiocese's St. Thomas d'Aquin Catholic Church is located across the street from the former seminary building and has not been used as a place worship recently.

In June, council approved rezoning the St. Thomas land to allow for a low-rise, mixed-use building.

But Valentik said plans to move the archdiocese's offices to the church building were put on hold due to creeping construction costs during the pandemic.

"We right now don't have a permanent plan on where we will house ourselves long-term," he said. "We're starting to study [the church site] across the road as well as other locations."

With files from Nicole Williams and Avanthika Anand

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ci...ansitional-housing-august-2023-1.6946223

[stolenottawa]

People are gonna be pisssssed.

Not sure what that business owner is talking about but it’s not mostly seniors around there.

Also there’s a high rise right next to it. I get it’s not Icon tall but still.

[J.OT13]

Sounds like they'll quickly renovate the building to provide transitional housing. Good to hear. Tearing it down and then waiting for funding to build new could take ages.

They could easily build two high-rises closest tot the Transitway and Bank, mid-rise on Lamira, and maybe townhomes towards the northern end of the site. They could also close-off the wings of the seminary, create courtyards.

[rocketphish]

Do they think that there will be significant push-back from the City at large against this plan? The initial purchase price is a pittance, but I guess we don't yet know how much the renovations will cost. And it had better include a bunch of mid-rise construction around the existing building to make the most of the site.

Ottawa needs permanent solutions to address homelessness, lack of affordable housing
The City has an opportunity to buy an eight-acre property on Kilborn Place, which could be converted to provide affordable with stable temporary housing.

Mark Sutcliffe, Marty Carr
Published Aug 25, 2023 • Last updated 11 hours ago • 3 minute read

Ottawa is a kind, compassionate, and empathetic community. We’re in awe of how much our residents care, how engaged they are, how often they volunteer, and how much they want to see the city work for everyone.

Throughout the last year, our residents have expressed a deep concern about the increasing need for affordable housing and empathy for the growing number of homeless people in our city. They are worried we’re not doing enough to support the most vulnerable, including those who require additional supports, whether it be for employment, health care, aging in place or other services.

And they’re concerned about the rising social and economic impacts. The effects of chronic homelessness and the lack of affordable housing are felt by everyone: neighbourhood residents, small-business owners, tourists, and others. Everyone agrees: we must take definitive action and find permanent solutions to address affordability and chronic homelessness. The whole city must play a role in responding to this crisis.

Some of our solutions to date, such as establishing physical distancing centres in recreation facilities, have been helpful in the short term, particularly in response to COVID. But if we’re going to address chronic homelessness with permanent solutions, we must do more.

Some progress is already happening. For the first time, we have more supportive housing units than shelter beds. Since 2014, we’ve built 446 new supportive housing units, including 67 already this year. There are another 198 units on the way.

Since 2015, the city’s Housing First strategy has also helped 1,877 people experiencing homelessness move into long-term housing and receive the supports they need. As of Dec. 31 of last year, 81 per cent of people in the program continued to retain their housing after one year of being placed.

The City of Ottawa now has an opportunity to purchase an eight-acre property on Kilborn Place. This building is currently owned by the Archdiocese of Ottawa Cornwall and has a long history. It once housed 100 students studying for the priesthood. It offers the potential to provide supportive and affordable housing, along with stable temporary housing with services for individuals who are in the process of locating, applying for, or obtaining long-term housing. Retaining and upgrading the building would help preserve our local heritage.

This is a big step for the city and for the neighbouring community. We will work closely and consult with residents in the immediate area to share plans and hear feedback in the months ahead.

If it’s approved at the city’s finance committee on Sept. 5, and at a full city council meeting after that, this project will be just one component of the extensive work being done to improve access to affordable housing in Ottawa. Other important work will continue, including collaborating with other levels of government to build more permanent affordable housing.

We envision a city where every resident has a safe place to live, with the supports that allow each of them to stay housed as their circumstances change. By working together we can turn this goal into reality. We’re ready to work with the surrounding neighbourhood and the entire community to maximize the benefits and reduce the risks associated with the project, and take an important step forward in providing safe, supportive housing to vulnerable members of our community.

With this project, our caring, compassionate city can take another step toward ending chronic homelessness.

Mark Sutcliffe is Mayor of Ottawa and Marty Carr is Councillor for Ward 18 (Alta Vista).

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/sutcliffe-and-carr-homelessness

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

How about no?

Yeah, a high rise at this location would be totally weird

[rocketphish]

City's pitch to buy former Catholic seminary in Alta Vista is just too vague
Council needs much more information before committing to spend $18.5 million on this plan for a 'supportive housing' complex.

Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
Published Aug 29, 2023 • Last updated 52 minutes ago • 3 minute read

Ottawa city councillors are being asked to spend $18.5 million to acquire a former Catholic seminary in Alta Vista without a clear idea of whether the seminary building is usable, how much fixing it up would cost, how much tearing it down would cost or what would happen with the rest of the 8.7-acre site.

There is really only one established fact. The city intends to use the site for supportive housing for people who are homeless. The staff report states, “This transaction is a result of a sustained and increasing need for supportive housing, with 369 individuals on the waitlist as of June 1, 2023.”

OK, the need is urgent, but the city doesn’t know what specifically will happen on the Kilborn Place site or when it might happen, although the term “coming years” is used in the staff report. First, “an extensive analysis, community consultation (neighbourhood and service sectors), business case and financial strategy development process will be developed with the housing and homelessness service sector,” the city report says.

One is reminded of the old English warning against buying a pig in a poke. The only substantive difference between that and what city staff are proposing is that the risk of buying a pig is considerably less.

At this point, it’s unclear if the city’s plan is to redevelop the former seminary or tear it down. Alta Vista Coun. Marty Carr says, “I’ll be honest. It (the building) needs a lot of repairs before we can move anyone in there.”

The problem is, no one knows what it would cost to convert the existing building for supportive housing. The city has made a building condition report an element of the sale, but only insofar as it is “satisfied” with the results of the report. If you don’t know what you are going to do with a building, it’s a bit difficult to say what satisfaction would consist of.

If it turns out that the place is a colossal money pit, tearing it down could be the best option, but Carr says Alta Vista residents are against that idea.

Carr has assured local residents, “With the city being in control, we’ll make sure that the development there is low-rise and consistent with the surrounding community and there’s no threat of a private developer putting in a high-rise. That’s the positive spin for the community.”

So, what the councillor is saying is that the city would not maximize the housing or economic potential of the site, which is classified as “inner urban” in the city’s Official Plan. That designation allows buildings of up to six storeys. The plan might be more saleable if there were some credible proposal to pay for renovating the seminary by selling off the rest of the land for development.

Even that would be a challenge. If history is a guide, any additional development on the site will be opposed. Much of it is grass and trees now and Ottawans seldom see a blade of grass or a tree they don’t want to retain.

Ottawa Mayor Mark Sutcliffe supports acquiring the seminary land, saying that it’s reasonably priced and will help the city provide affordable housing both now and in the future. Sutcliffe says he has been told that part of the building could be used for supportive housing soon, a point not covered in the city report. The mayor argues that it’s premature to establish a detailed plan for the site because the surrounding community hasn’t been consulted.

The question city councillors should ask themselves is this: If a community group had come to them asking for $18.5 million to buy this land for supportive housing but it didn’t have a plan for its project, a plan for the rest of the land or any idea of how run-down the building is, would they say yes?

Randall Denley is an Ottawa political commentator and author. Contact him at [email protected]

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/denley...seminary-in-alta-vista-is-just-too-vague

[stolenottawa]

https://pub-ottawa.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=140588

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

City's pitch to buy former Catholic seminary in Alta Vista is just too vague
Council needs much more information before committing to spend $18.5 million on this plan for a 'supportive housing' complex.

Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
Published Aug 29, 2023 • Last updated 52 minutes ago • 3 minute read

Ottawa city councillors are being asked to spend $18.5 million to acquire a former Catholic seminary in Alta Vista without a clear idea of whether the seminary building is usable, how much fixing it up would cost, how much tearing it down would cost or what would happen with the rest of the 8.7-acre site.

There is really only one established fact. The city intends to use the site for supportive housing for people who are homeless. The staff report states, “This transaction is a result of a sustained and increasing need for supportive housing, with 369 individuals on the waitlist as of June 1, 2023.”

OK, the need is urgent, but the city doesn’t know what specifically will happen on the Kilborn Place site or when it might happen, although the term “coming years” is used in the staff report. First, “an extensive analysis, community consultation (neighbourhood and service sectors), business case and financial strategy development process will be developed with the housing and homelessness service sector,” the city report says.

One is reminded of the old English warning against buying a pig in a poke. The only substantive difference between that and what city staff are proposing is that the risk of buying a pig is considerably less.

At this point, it’s unclear if the city’s plan is to redevelop the former seminary or tear it down. Alta Vista Coun. Marty Carr says, “I’ll be honest. It (the building) needs a lot of repairs before we can move anyone in there.”

The problem is, no one knows what it would cost to convert the existing building for supportive housing. The city has made a building condition report an element of the sale, but only insofar as it is “satisfied” with the results of the report. If you don’t know what you are going to do with a building, it’s a bit difficult to say what satisfaction would consist of.

If it turns out that the place is a colossal money pit, tearing it down could be the best option, but Carr says Alta Vista residents are against that idea.

Carr has assured local residents, “With the city being in control, we’ll make sure that the development there is low-rise and consistent with the surrounding community and there’s no threat of a private developer putting in a high-rise. That’s the positive spin for the community.”

So, what the councillor is saying is that the city would not maximize the housing or economic potential of the site, which is classified as “inner urban” in the city’s Official Plan. That designation allows buildings of up to six storeys. The plan might be more saleable if there were some credible proposal to pay for renovating the seminary by selling off the rest of the land for development.

Even that would be a challenge. If history is a guide, any additional development on the site will be opposed. Much of it is grass and trees now and Ottawans seldom see a blade of grass or a tree they don’t want to retain.

Ottawa Mayor Mark Sutcliffe supports acquiring the seminary land, saying that it’s reasonably priced and will help the city provide affordable housing both now and in the future. Sutcliffe says he has been told that part of the building could be used for supportive housing soon, a point not covered in the city report. The mayor argues that it’s premature to establish a detailed plan for the site because the surrounding community hasn’t been consulted.

The question city councillors should ask themselves is this: If a community group had come to them asking for $18.5 million to buy this land for supportive housing but it didn’t have a plan for its project, a plan for the rest of the land or any idea of how run-down the building is, would they say yes?

Randall Denley is an Ottawa political commentator and author. Contact him at [email protected]

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/denley...seminary-in-alta-vista-is-just-too-vague

I tend to agree with Randall here. The City are not savvy developers and shouldn't pretend to be. FYI. A client of mine was approached about buying this parcel of land in 2008. I don't recall the cost but there must be a reason why it has been dormant or not sold in 15 years.

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

I tend to agree with Randall here. The City are not savvy developers and shouldn't pretend to be. FYI. A client of mine was approached about buying this parcel of land in 2008. I don't recall the cost but there must be a reason why it has been dormant or not sold in 15 years.

I have no issue with the city buying it....IF the city can put forth a plan to get FULL use of the site as any private developer would...but currently the only solid plan being put forth is making sure the exact opposite of that happens.

Also, if the city has 18.5 million to spend can it be added to the OCH budget to get their redevelopment projects moving...

[lrt's friend]

If it turns out that the place is a colossal money pit, tearing it down could be the best option, but Carr says Alta Vista residents are against that idea.

Carr has assured local residents, “With the city being in control, we’ll make sure that the development there is low-rise and consistent with the surrounding community and there’s no threat of a private developer putting in a high-rise. That’s the positive spin for the community.”

Good grief. This is right next high rises, Billings Bridge shopping centre, and the Transitway. This is a perfect place for intensification.

[Harley613]

'there’s no threat of a private developer putting in a high-rise'

Housing crisis...
Mass Transit...
A lot with high rises on both sides along a major arterial roadway...

'Threat'

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by Harley613

'there’s no threat of a private developer putting in a high-rise'

Housing crisis...
Mass Transit...
A lot with high rises on both sides along a major arterial roadway...

'Threat'

https://devapps.ottawa.ca/en/applications/D02-02-23-0067/details

"After a review of 17 PMTSAs across the city it has been determined that the zoning in all of the PMTSAs provide permissions to deliver the minimum densities in Table 3a of the OP with the exception of the Corso Italia PMTSA"

It was bad enough that a councillor was stating this BS, its even worse when planning staff state it as well... There is land literally accross the street from Tunneys station STILL zoned R3....

[Harley613]

The NIMBYs have launched their first offensive
https://reddit.com/r/ottawa/s/4LvgTteQcJ

[stolenottawa]

Originally Posted by Harley613

The NIMBYs have launched their first offensive
https://reddit.com/r/ottawa/s/4LvgTteQcJ

And of course Reddit has a balanced point of view in regards to this.


The city has done a real poor job communicating about this. As someone who lives next to here, I have concerns about what their long term plans are.

[rocketphish]

Committee approves purchase of former archdiocese residence for supportive housing project
The building has 100 rooms that once housed priests, but it has been empty since 2019 and was most recently been used for office space.

Blair Crawford, Ottawa Citizen
Published Sep 05, 2023 • Last updated 38 minutes ago • 2 minute read

Councillors on the Finance and Corporate Affairs committee unanimously endorsed a $18.5-million plan to buy a former seminary in Alta Vista that the City of Ottawa plans to convert into supportive housing.

The vote came after more than two hours of polarized public delegations on the proposal, with residents living near the site on Kilborn Place saying they weren’t consulted, while others cautioned that the vacant site could be a money drain because of the cost of remediation.

“There is a real risk in investing what I understand is the whole annual budget for supportive housing into a single site,” said Jan Menningen, one of the public delegations at Tuesday’s meeting.

“If the costs explodes, is it really the best way to support the population? How long is it going to take to build and remedy this?”

Others, however, spoke passionately of the need for more supportive housing in the city. There are 369 people on the waiting list for supportive housing, which, unlike shelter beds, provides permanent lodging for people with a wide-range of needs, including intellectual or physical disability, or mental health issues or require some other form of support.

One woman tearfully described how she found herself unexpectedly homeless after fleeing abusive parents. Lou Dawoudiah of the Ottawa Mission said clients there strived for one thing: “Men, women, young adults, seniors, people of all diverse genders and backgrounds, all of whom are facing very obstacles and yet strive for one common goal: a home. A stable, affordable and safe environment to live in.”

Mayor Mark Sutcliffe described the purchase as a “huge opportunity” for the city.

“This is exactly the kind of thinking and action we need to tackle an issue like this one,” Sutcliffe said. “”This really gives us options, very good options, and we will be discussing those options with the community before we move forward.”

Sutcliffe also thanked rookie Alta Vista ward Coun. Marty Carr, who helped broker the purchase from the Roman Catholic Episcopal Corporation of Ottawa. Sutcliffe and Carr co-authored an op-ed about the purchase that appeared in the Ottawa Citizen two weeks ago.

The enormous Diocesan Centre at 1245-1247 Kilborn Place sits on 8.7 acres of land that Carr hopes will eventually be developed for mixed use by the city.

The building has 100 rooms that once housed priests, but it has been empty since 2019 and was most recently been used for office space. The massive structure, nearly as long as Centre Block on Parliament Hill, was designed by Ottawa architect Auguste Martineau, and it opened in 1957.

The full cost of the site clean-up and conversion is not yet known. The committee’s recommendation must still be approved by full city council at its Sept. 13 meeting.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...residence-for-supportive-housing-project

[Harley613]

Absolutely fantastic news. We need a lot more of this. Decentralizing people from the madness of the core will allow them to feel human again while they get back on their feet. I wonder how hard it would be to convert the Sir Charles Tupper Building to supportive housing. It's not as ideally located for services, but it is a five minute walk from the Trillium Line.

[Harley613]

The need for supportive and affordable housing is going to go thermonuclear over the next few years. I'm thinking of all kinds of buildings that could be repurposed to help. The Hull Hospital for example. Maybe we should make a thread to discuss it.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by Harley613

The need for supportive and affordable housing is going to go thermonuclear over the next few years. I'm thinking of all kinds of buildings that could be repurposed to help. The Hull Hospital for example. Maybe we should make a thread to discuss it.

This might do for now:
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217138