Is Dallas' core infill being overlooked?

[Dallaz]

I am not claiming that Dallas has the densest core or the tallest buildings, but I do want to discuss the progress taking place within the city. This is just one part of the core, will discuss other areas later.

This is the only pic that I have that shows the entire high-rise/skyscraper core of Dallas. It really shows how close together all these areas are. This is what you see when crossing the Sylvan Ave Bridge, Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge or coming anywhere from the west. Coming from the south on I-35E or I-45, you cannot see everything since the skyscrapers in downtown basically creates a wall and blocks the view. Looking from from the South to North is the traditional skyline view that anyone who have seen a pic of Dallas' skyline are familiar with and is a reason why people think nothing has been built or changed. I like to think of the infill as 3 high-rise clusters. Red circle on pic is North Uptown (West village) / Cityplace - with Texas' only subway and streetcar station, Blue Circle - Turtle Creek/Oak Lawn, and the Green Circle - southern part of Uptown, Victory Park, and the Harwood District. This is where the vast majority of the high-rise development is taking place within Dallas. The picture quality isn’t the greatest (and it’s thousands of feet in the air), but it does show the high-rise infill and density that’s being built...even with height restrictions from Love Field.

Skyline from the west

From the Sylvan Ave Bridge over the Trinity River on Google Streeview

Looking toward downtown from the West on the Hampton Rd Bridge over I-30, just outside of downtown




Bank of America Tower at Parkside Uptown (450 ft) - U/C
Blue Circle - Four Seasons Turtle Creek (464 ft) - planned




Clear pic without circles



From Feb 2024

A monster boom is taking shape in Dallas’ Uptown and Turtle Creek areas
Twenty major real estate developments are underway or proposed near Dallas’ Uptown and Turtle Creek areas.

The area north of downtown Dallas that includes Uptown, Victory Park and Turtle Creek is seeing an unprecedented building boom.

More than $2 billion in buildings are on the way in almost two dozen major projects. Some of the largest developments include major employment centers for Goldman Sachs and Bank of America.

At the same time, developers are working on high-rise residential buildings for both renters and buyers.

19 high-rise projects listed in the article (some with multiple high-rise towers) and one mid-rise apartment project with retail.

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by Dallaz

I am not claiming that Dallas has the densest core or the tallest buildings, but I do want to discuss the progress taking place within the city. This is just one part of the core, will discuss other areas later.

This is the only pic that I have that shows the entire high-rise/skyscraper core of Dallas. It really shows how close together all these areas are. This is what you see when crossing the Sylvan Ave Bridge, Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge or coming anywhere from the west. Coming from the south on I-35E or I-45, you cannot see everything since the skyscrapers in downtown basically creates a wall and blocks the view. Looking from from the South to North is the traditional skyline view that anyone who have seen a pic of Dallas' skyline are familiar with and is a reason why people think nothing has been built or changed. I like to think of the infill as 3 high-rise clusters. Red circle on pic is North Uptown (West village) / Cityplace - with Texas' only subway and streetcar station, Blue Circle - Turtle Creek/Oak Lawn, and the Green Circle - southern part of Uptown, Victory Park, and the Harwood District. This is where the vast majority of the high-rise development is taking place within Dallas. The picture quality isn’t the greatest (and it’s thousands of feet in the air), but it does show the high-rise infill and density that’s being built...even with height restrictions from Love Field.

Skyline from the west

From the Sylvan Ave Bridge over the Trinity River on Google Streeview

Looking toward downtown from the West on the Hampton Rd Bridge over I-30, just outside of downtown




Bank of America Tower at Parkside Uptown (450 ft) - U/C
Blue Circle - Four Seasons Turtle Creek (464 ft) - planned




Clear pic without circles



From Feb 2024

A monster boom is taking shape in Dallas’ Uptown and Turtle Creek areas
Twenty major real estate developments are underway or proposed near Dallas’ Uptown and Turtle Creek areas.



19 high-rise projects listed in the article (some with multiple high-rise towers) and one mid-rise apartment project with retail.

This is the correct list that corresponds with the pics with the circles. I can't edit the words on the previous post or the whole post disappears, including the pics. Some weird glitch or something is happening.

I picked one development for each circle

Red circle - The Central - a $2.5 billion high-rise mixed-use development (I am not sure if y'all can see it clearly, but the high-rise adjacent to Cityplace Tower is the first tower in the development. It has topped out and you can kinda see the streets they've built too) - U/C - Link: https://youtu.be/JuR82lIqFy8?feature=shared
Green Circle - Bank of America Tower at Parkside Uptown (450 ft) - U/C
Blue Circle - Four Seasons Turtle Creek (464 ft) - planned

[AviationGuy]

I spotted all this infill from the plane on takeoff from Love Field last time I was there. I haven't driven around yet, but would like to next time I'm in Dallas. Looks good.

[llamaorama]

Uptown Dallas is much more urban than Houston's uptown/galleria area, but it doesn't have the careful sidewalk-level progressive urban planning of somewhere like Denver's Union Station or Seattle's South Lake Union. I've stayed in and walked around those areas on trips for work and there are the little things that are hard to quantify, but it's so different from Texas in those places.

Uptown Dallas has got a lot of big shiny buildings which do have occupied ground-floor retail including full-size chain grocery stores, etc, and then there are areas off the major streets like State-Thomas that are quiet but residentially dense. But it also does feel chaotic and there's a lot of car traffic, and less attention to detail with sidewalks or small parklets, etc.

It kind of reminds me of the time I walked around the new parts of downtown Austin (by the old power plant and that building that looks like a big sail), except Austin has taller buildings. Maybe it's comparable to a much less built up Midtown Atlanta or Buckhead? I'm embarassed to say I've never actually been to Atlanta, I just know Midtown Atlanta exists because of SSP and Google Earth.

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

Uptown Dallas is much more urban than Houston's uptown/galleria area, but it doesn't have the careful sidewalk-level progressive urban planning of somewhere like Denver's Union Station or Seattle's South Lake Union. I've stayed in and walked around those areas on trips for work and there are the little things that are hard to quantify, but it's so different from Texas in those places.

Uptown Dallas has got a lot of big shiny buildings which do have occupied ground-floor retail including full-size chain grocery stores, etc, and then there are areas off the major streets like State-Thomas that are quiet but residentially dense. But it also does feel chaotic and there's a lot of car traffic, and less attention to detail with sidewalks or small parklets, etc.

It kind of reminds me of the time I walked around the new parts of downtown Austin (by the old power plant and that building that looks like a big sail), except Austin has taller buildings. Maybe it's comparable to a much less built up Midtown Atlanta or Buckhead? I'm embarassed to say I've never actually been to Atlanta, I just know Midtown Atlanta exists because of SSP and Google Earth.

Fun Fact: State-Thomas is pretty much a gentrified former freedman's town. It was like that in the 80s, the portion with the detached homes is the historic portion that still remains. Met some very nice (loaded) people in those restored homes.

Uptown is still relatively new and still a work in progress. I am excited about the McKinney-Cole Aves two way conversion project from Uptown to Knox-Henderson (another fast growing part of town). The project will include pocket parks at reconstructed intersections, starting at Oak Grove Avenue. There's also a plan in the very early stages that will redo McKinnon St and Harry Hines Blvd in the area too.

Video with extremely brief overview with renderings McKinney-Cole Ave (time stamp - 22:00) and Harry Hines Blvd/McKinnon St (times stamp - 24:10)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiuFcEVgX_I&t=1745s

The closest answer to me would be Midtown Atlanta. I do agree that Midtown is more ahead, since it started before Uptown did. But Uptown started off in the early 90s as a mixed-use neighborhood, being heavier on the residential aspect. Now, the area is attracting a number of companies because they find it to be a fairly attractive place for young professionals. According to wikipedia, Uptown has an area covering 0.9 sq mi and a 2014 population of 19,979. In 2014, half (or more) of Uptown's high-rises didn't exist.

Also, Klyde Warren Park is about to expanded, along with a few other new deck parks within the city. The expansion is expected to spark even more growth in the Uptown/Downtown area.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

Uptown Dallas is much more urban than Houston's uptown/galleria area,

Uptown Dallas has the benefit of sharing the adjacent downtown street grid while Houston's "Uptown" grew out of a 1960s suburban street plan. "Uptown" Houston is improving, but it's still a mess.

[dktshb]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

Uptown Dallas is much more urban than Houston's uptown/galleria area, but it doesn't have the careful sidewalk-level progressive urban planning of somewhere like Denver's Union Station or Seattle's South Lake Union. I've stayed in and walked around those areas on trips for work and there are the little things that are hard to quantify, but it's so different from Texas in those places.

Yeah, they did such a great job with the neighborhood behind Denver's Union Station, which used to be acres of rail yards 20 years ago. Tall buildings do not always mean urban:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/haY9PkoisFCJLiEu7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/h2cJZmu3jFZGF8Wu8
https://maps.app.goo.gl/GRMtTvSckPkrE8RR6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/dFZwhDiYR9Pe5MSm6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/LjsD2xVSNjRkMQg5A

[benp]

Originally Posted by dktshb

Yeah, they did such a great job with the neighborhood behind Denver's Union Station, which used to be acres of rail yards 20 years ago. Tall buildings do not always mean urban:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/haY9PkoisFCJLiEu7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/h2cJZmu3jFZGF8Wu8
https://maps.app.goo.gl/GRMtTvSckPkrE8RR6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/dFZwhDiYR9Pe5MSm6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/LjsD2xVSNjRkMQg5A

Imagine if instead of the parking alongside Post Oak in Houston that it was a walkable esplanade. That alone could be a huge leap to make it a great urban area, instead it's strip mall parking lots with big buildings nearby.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/tXhWecHUg4kaWxCd7

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by benp

Imagine if instead of the parking alongside Post Oak in Houston that it was a walkable esplanade. That alone could be a huge leap to make it a great urban area, instead it's strip mall parking lots with big buildings nearby.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/tXhWecHUg4kaWxCd7

Most of those strip malls (and their parking lots) have been there for decades. My expectation is that they will be replaced sooner or later with more dense development. The sidewalks along Post Oak, even in front of the parking lots, have already been expanded as prologue to new development.

Now imagine if everything in "Uptown" had been built in Midtown, instead.

[chris08876]

I can see Dallas following a development pattern similar to Houston. Key advantage is the land size and there are plenty of opportunity for infill, if its multi-family developments that sprawl but have a decent amount of units, or the tower in the park/multi-nodal nature of Houston, only for Dallas.

Is there a ton of demand though for high rise living in Dallas? Considering the prices. I'm all for the towers rising but realistically, we are likely to see the same pattern of development that we see in Houston but in Dallas. That is low-rise multi-families, like the example below. Much cheaper to build, better pricing versus say a 150-200 unit tower.

Also with a booming population, and the price of single family homes rising, apartment developments like the ones below are likely the future.


Credit: https://www.equityapartments.com/dal...rly-apartments

There are a lot of industrial parks in the region and I'd imagine downtown is just a small portion of the total employment capacity, and so... there might not be a need for walkable, dense areas full of towers. While nice to look at, I'm just thinking realistically of how the metro will grow, pattern wise.

Unfortunatly, auto-dominated, and with WFH, will remain so. But consistent and increasing density over a large area, sure.

[dktshb]

Originally Posted by benp

Imagine if instead of the parking alongside Post Oak in Houston that it was a walkable esplanade. That alone could be a huge leap to make it a great urban area, instead it's strip mall parking lots with big buildings nearby.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/tXhWecHUg4kaWxCd7

That area I guess would be comparable to the Cherry Creek Mall or Cherry Creek neighborhood of Denver. Even though the neighborhood is anchored by a suburban style mall it still seems to have a better urban fabric.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/GRWZFrpYP56wB77G6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/53PiKdxLzKz2nPRT9

Although this is pretty atrocious:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/fLvHsZBzphV74WpT7

Maybe there is a plan for this parking lot that surrounds what appears to be a vacant storefront.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by dktshb

That area I guess would be comparable to the Cherry Creek Mall or Cherry Creek neighborhood of Denver. Even though the neighborhood is anchored by a suburban style mall it still seems to have a better urban fabric.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/GRWZFrpYP56wB77G6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/53PiKdxLzKz2nPRT9

Although this is pretty atrocious:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/fLvHsZBzphV74WpT7

Maybe there is a plan for this parking lot that surrounds what appears to be a vacant storefront.

The Cherry Creek area is getting better, but its a pretty good (if smaller) comparison in built form to Uptown Dallas. I used to live nearby and Denver is pretty uniformly pleasant to walk around if you’re able. If you’re disabled, the sidewalks are absolutely horrible quality most places and I am so glad Denver Deserves Sidewalks got on the ballot and passed. There are plenty of single story narrow urban format retail corridors stitching what amounts to a bungalow style single family core with various town center or mixed used style nodes. Cherry Creek, specifically, only has two major area of parking lots and they’re actually placed in an area that does not greatly affect the feeling of walkability when you’re a pedestrian. You simply don’t walk past that specific area because, well, the Cherry Creek area is designed to draw pedestrian traffic from adjacent bungalow style neighborhoods (along with vehicular traffic from city wide). The parking lots are on the other side of the Cherry Creek core from those neighborhoods. And they do have parking garages as well, which are very well hidden on the back of the mall adjacent to a well used and highly maintained greenbelt I used all the time.

A lot is being built down the road on Alameda:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/MwUsLY3NU8dY8Vis9?g_st=ic

And some more minor stuff is being extended down Leetsdale. Unfortunately, the fact that Glendale remains a renter heavy, low turnout, separate enclave municipality where the government is run based on sales tax receipts means their mayor and city council have an interest in maintaining parking lot heavy development will permanently scar the general area and limit connectivity of Cherry Creek with broader southeast Denver. There’s literally nothing Denver can do about that, and so they are unlikely to fully abandon the Cherry Creek nodes as partially designed around the vehicle. It’s a logical choice. Every city needs a high dollar area to juice public sales tax receipts and that in all honesty requires designing it to be easily used by a vehicle. As far as it goes, it’s A- (for me) for pedestrians is still pretty good.

[Trae]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

Uptown Dallas is much more urban than Houston's uptown/galleria area, but it doesn't have the careful sidewalk-level progressive urban planning of somewhere like Denver's Union Station or Seattle's South Lake Union. I've stayed in and walked around those areas on trips for work and there are the little things that are hard to quantify, but it's so different from Texas in those places.

The only thing similar about Uptown Dallas and Uptown Houston is the name, but that name causes people to make comparisons like they are equal neighborhoods. Midtown Houston is to Downtown Houston what Uptown Dallas is to Downtown Dallas.

Although the downtown-uptown Dallas area is small area wise, it does a good job with the urban build and has some walkable lively areas. Dallas has done a great job.

[Crawford]

Dallas doesn't really have extensive core infill; it has massive North side infill. In the other directionals, there's very little.

And the Dallas CBD might be the weakest for a metro of its size in the Western world. It has struggled, for decades, with extremely high vacancies.

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Dallas doesn't really have extensive core infill; it has massive North side infill. In the other directionals, there's very little.

And the Dallas CBD might be the weakest for a metro of its size in the Western world. It has struggled, for decades, with extremely high vacancies.

Disagree. The 80s crash is a major reason for this. A lot of the office space became vacant after the 80s crash. All the banks that built the office space failed. Now, those buildings are being converted because they’re obsolete. Dallas is one of the top cities in the nation for office conversions. New projects are proposed to help with that, like the new convention center project and a few other projects that have stalled because of high interest rates. Deep Ellum is infilling and so is the Design District, Old East Dallas, Knox-Henderson, North Oak Cliff (Bishop Arts District). I will show all those areas in the next post.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by Dallaz

Disagree. The 80s crash is a major reason for this. A lot of the office space became vacant after the 80s crash. All the banks that built the office space failed. Now, those buildings are being converted because they’re obsolete. Dallas is one of the top cities in the nation for office conversions. New projects are proposed to help with that, like the new convention center project and a few other projects that have stalled because of high interest rates. Deep Ellum is infilling and so is the Design District, Old East Dallas, Knox-Henderson, North Oak Cliff (Bishop Arts District). I will show all those areas in the next post.

Houston fared worse than Dallas, especially since its economy was much more energy related (I read somewhere that it was 80%+ dependent on oil in the early 80s). Yet, Houston has built downtown towers, both office and residential. It seems that downtown Dallas has been a poor competitor to the suburban sprawl of the area, for both offices and residential. In the 80s and 90s, I was reading about the growth in Plano, several miles away, and now the news is all about the growth a further several miles in Frisco. But perhaps, it's possible one day downtown Dallas may burst in new construction and development like downtown Los Angeles has.

[New York to Dallas]

why is there no Dallas update thread or page?

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by New York to Dallas

why is there no Dallas update thread or page?

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7647

[Altoic]

I think Dallas's development definitely isn't overlooked but the scale of the development is. It seems like every month a new tower is released or breaking ground. The towers also look really high quality from what I've seen. They aren't like the common towers I've seen with low quality podiums and no retail.
A bit off topic, but what's the plan with I-345? Have they decided to demolish it or bury it?

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by Altoic

I think Dallas's development definitely isn't overlooked but the scale of the development is. It seems like every month a new tower is released or breaking ground. The towers also look really high quality from what I've seen. They aren't like the common towers I've seen with low quality podiums and no retail.
A bit off topic, but what's the plan with I-345? Have they decided to demolish it or bury it?

It's gonna be buried. TxDOT says they will not build a boulevard like the urbanists are pushing for. Also, the city doesn't own the freeway, so TxDOT can basically do what they want with the corridor. So, the alternative is a hybrid option. It will be in a trench with city streets running on top. It's being designed that it can be capped over.

Here's the most recent flyover. The capacity isn't being increased, this is all being done because TxDOT doesn't want to speed the money to maintain an aging elevated freeway long term. According to them, they don't build urban freeways anymore.

Presntation: https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=V87SYuQ5Ub0
Flyover: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X_Pd00_7iPg