PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[Gatorade_Jim]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I feel like this was changing significantly prior to Covid.

If anything, it's gotten much worse lately. Many of my regular corner bars / watering holes are simply closing at 10 or 11 even on the weekends and even if the place is packed. It's quite annoying.

The most notable example to me is Loco Pez in Fishtown. It was almost always open till 1 or so if not later on the weekends and now they roll up the sidewalks and announce last call at 10 on weeknights and 11 (if not earlier on the weekends). I've seen it happen even when every barstool is occupied.

It's just very very odd to me. Like, the owner doesn't want to make money.

That’s pretty wild. If you have time sometime ask them why they’re closing early. I always wonder but haven’t had the chance to ask somebody in the know.

[Mayormccheese]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I feel like this was changing significantly prior to Covid.

If anything, it's gotten much worse lately. Many of my regular corner bars / watering holes are simply closing at 10 or 11 even on the weekends and even if the place is packed. It's quite annoying.

The most notable example to me is Loco Pez in Fishtown. It was almost always open till 1 or so if not later on the weekends and now they roll up the sidewalks and announce last call at 10 on weeknights and 11 (if not earlier on the weekends). I've seen it happen even when every barstool is occupied.

It's just very very odd to me. Like, the owner doesn't want to make money.

It’s most likely due to staffing. They either don’t have a full staff and saving those late night hours keeps the current staff from burning out or simply the staff doesn’t want to close late, since COVID restaurant employees have been fighting for better QOL in the industry and you’re seeing less workers want to work late.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I feel like this was changing significantly prior to Covid.

If anything, it's gotten much worse lately. Many of my regular corner bars / watering holes are simply closing at 10 or 11 even on the weekends and even if the place is packed. It's quite annoying.

The most notable example to me is Loco Pez in Fishtown. It was almost always open till 1 or so if not later on the weekends and now they roll up the sidewalks and announce last call at 10 on weeknights and 11 (if not earlier on the weekends). I've seen it happen even when every barstool is occupied.

It's just very very odd to me. Like, the owner doesn't want to make money.

its likely safety and worker related. In the aftermath of the south street shooting articles covered businesses on South St. that had been closing earlier than they did pre-pandemic due to safety concerns for workers and patrons. You cannot underestimate that- especially when it comes to bartenders and waitresses who have to head home at 12-2:30am on weekends.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by cardeza

its likely safety and worker related. In the aftermath of the south street shooting articles covered businesses on South St. that had been closing earlier than they did pre-pandemic due to safety concerns for workers and patrons. You cannot underestimate that- especially when it comes to bartenders and waitresses who have to head home at 12-2:30am on weekends.

I think it’s staffing shortages. Crime doesn’t magically begin at midnight. Over the last month or so, I’ve noticed plenty of stores and restaurants with signs in their windows saying they had to close early due to short staffing. I noticed one at Brook’s Brothers on Walnut the other day.

[iheartphilly]

^^^
You guys nailed it on the issues of retail and restaurants!

[3rd&Brown]

I get it, it's definitely staffing related.

But you would think this long after the shutdown more places would have it figured out. I get closing the kitchen on the dot at a particular time no matter what to prevent burnout but the bar is a much different story.

The same thing has happened at Lloyd on Girard. Last call is almost always at 10. But tbh, I think they killed their business themselves. That's a separate treatise.

I will say I believe a number of these establishments have owners that basically checked out and don't live in town anymore and assume the cash is going to keep on flowing. But the reality is you have to be around to make sure things are running the way you assume and are being told. I think a lot of these absentee owners are being told by their employees that the demand isn't there so it's okay to shut down early when in fact it is. You wouldn't know that unless you were in the bar when your bar tenders were calling it a night and rolling up the sidewalks even when every seat was occupied.

[PHLtoNYC]

Nothing new, but figured I'd share. I'm sensing a major push though to change the status quo (statewide too).

Philadelphia's inability to attract large companies is stifling its economy, new report finds

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...Pos=0#cxrecs_s

Philadelphia has recently claimed major tourism wins with deals to host events like the FIFA World Cup, the MLB All-Star Game and WrestleMania, but a new Center City District report suggests the city's focus should be elsewhere if it wants to ensure sustained economic growth.

The report outlines a blueprint for how the next mayor of Philadelphia can advance the city's economy, which lags behind those of many peer cities, by attracting more national and international corporations. Large companies like Comcast and Aramark, which have clients spanning the globe, are a boon to the city's tax income, create a large number of jobs and attract more people to the city, the report notes.

The problem is that Philadelphia is severely lacking in those types of businesses, and it could continue to be an obstacle to a thriving economy. Of the 10 largest employers in Philadelphia as of the fourth quarter of 2021, Comcast is the only one that is a taxable firm in the private sector, the report states. The rest are public entities like universities, hospitals and government agencies that receive funding from taxes, rather than pay them.

Many of the region's largest taxable companies — Vanguard, Toll Brothers Inc., Campbell Soup Co., AmerisourceBergen Corp. and others — are located outside of the city limits. That's continued to hamper the city's ability to attract high-paying jobs and generate taxes to fund city services.

Compared to Denver, New York, San Francisco and Baltimore, the report found that Philadelphia has the fewest jobs per resident and is the only metro where there are fewer jobs per resident in the city than in the suburbs.

The impediment to attracting these large corporations largely falls on the city's tax structure. The city's high corporate and income taxes have long been a deterrent for businesses and workers alike.

"If Philadelphia devotes to the retention and attraction of traded industries the same energies long devoted to conventions, festivals and sports, and commits to ever more competitive tax rates, we can replicate the success achieved by others, growing more family-sustaining jobs and a prosperous network of small, local businesses," the report states.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Nothing new, but figured I'd share. I'm sensing a major push though to change the status quo (statewide too).

Philadelphia's inability to attract large companies is stifling its economy, new report finds

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...Pos=0#cxrecs_s

Philadelphia has recently claimed major tourism wins with deals to host events like the FIFA World Cup, the MLB All-Star Game and WrestleMania, but a new Center City District report suggests the city's focus should be elsewhere if it wants to ensure sustained economic growth.

The report outlines a blueprint for how the next mayor of Philadelphia can advance the city's economy, which lags behind those of many peer cities, by attracting more national and international corporations. Large companies like Comcast and Aramark, which have clients spanning the globe, are a boon to the city's tax income, create a large number of jobs and attract more people to the city, the report notes.

The problem is that Philadelphia is severely lacking in those types of businesses, and it could continue to be an obstacle to a thriving economy. Of the 10 largest employers in Philadelphia as of the fourth quarter of 2021, Comcast is the only one that is a taxable firm in the private sector, the report states. The rest are public entities like universities, hospitals and government agencies that receive funding from taxes, rather than pay them.

Many of the region's largest taxable companies — Vanguard, Toll Brothers Inc., Campbell Soup Co., AmerisourceBergen Corp. and others — are located outside of the city limits. That's continued to hamper the city's ability to attract high-paying jobs and generate taxes to fund city services.

Compared to Denver, New York, San Francisco and Baltimore, the report found that Philadelphia has the fewest jobs per resident and is the only metro where there are fewer jobs per resident in the city than in the suburbs.

The impediment to attracting these large corporations largely falls on the city's tax structure. The city's high corporate and income taxes have long been a deterrent for businesses and workers alike.

"If Philadelphia devotes to the retention and attraction of traded industries the same energies long devoted to conventions, festivals and sports, and commits to ever more competitive tax rates, we can replicate the success achieved by others, growing more family-sustaining jobs and a prosperous network of small, local businesses," the report states.

While I don't want to downplay the importance of this year's midterm election, next year will be an insanely important year for Philadelphia's future. I know a lot of people that are sticking around to see what happens.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

For the night owls.

What does a 24-hour Philadelphia look like? New nighttime economy director wants to start with 2 a.m. tacos

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...Pos=0#cxrecs_s

After the sun sinks below the Philadelphia skyline, Raheem Manning envisions a robust nightlife scene, with food trucks awaiting concertgoers or the computer programmer working late into the night. It's part of a mission to increase commerce after dark in each of Philadelphia's neighborhoods, bolstering the overall nighttime economy.

I'd LOVE to see the plan here. I was just in NYC (Astoria) and the difference as to what happens after 12pm in these two cities couldn't be more different. There is NOTHING happening in CC at night. In Old City, you can't buy milk after 9:00. I'll be long dead before that changes, I feel like.

I understand why. Talk about opening the city up late night in the face of surging violence is counter-intuitive. We have no police. Store owners are sitting ducks. That's why Old City is in closed at 9:00 (not the bars but everything else). We can't stay open later right now. You take chances that aren't worth it.

My daughter was doing a TV gig here recently and she was on a week of overnight scene shoots. The set was on Broad at the Merriman theatre and their offices were across the street. She said starting at around 10:30-11:00, it became "Dawn of the Living Dead" out there. Homeless and drug addicts yelling, fighting, throwing garbage. Not a cop to be seen. This was Broad and Walnut!!! She was amazed and said it was far better to watch than the show they were shooting. One night she was walking to set at 11, and an addict came up to her on the sidewalk. She was like "here we go" and had her hand on the mace. The guy says "Ain't nothin open, BITCH." He walked away and she was like "why am I a bitch?" lol. She was considering Philly as the TV scene here is improving despite how insanely difficult Philly and PA make it for that industry. She's not anymore.

I don't think until we get a tremendous surge in police recruiting - and all signs point to that being a FAR away reality - we do not have the infrastructure to be nothing more than a violent, unsafe bedroom community.

I hope Philly isn't paying the Nighttime Economy Director of Philadelphia a ton of money cause he ain't gonna do $h!t about improving the nighttime economy.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

While I don't want to downplay the importance of this year's midterm election, next year will be an insanely important year for Philadelphia's future. I know a lot of people that are sticking around to see what happens.

I’m starting to lean toward Green. Sounds like he was pretty central to the tax cuts in the new budget plan and might be one of the more business friendly candidates.

https://www.inquirer.com/politics/ph...-20220623.html

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by Redddog

I'd LOVE to see the plan here. I was just in NYC (Astoria) and the difference as to what happens after 12pm in these two cities couldn't be more different. There is NOTHING happening in CC at night. In Old City, you can't buy milk after 9:00. I'll be long dead before that changes, I feel like.

I understand why. Talk about opening the city up late night in the face of surging violence is counter-intuitive. We have no police. Store owners are sitting ducks. That's why Old City is in closed at 9:00 (not the bars but everything else). We can't stay open later right now. You take chances that aren't worth it.

Bear in mind that expansion of nighttime activity can actually be a natural deterrent to crime, if done strategically. Obviously crime can still happen in crowded areas at any time of day, but it's far less likely with so many "eyes on the street."

It's not an easy task, no doubt, but there's a real opportunity for the city to really improve the perception of safety--and more importantly, drive down the potential for shady activity in otherwise quiet and empty streets--in many neighborhoods with this kind of effort.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

I’m starting to lean toward Green. Sounds like he was pretty central to the tax cuts in the new budget plan and might be one of the more business friendly candidates.

https://www.inquirer.com/politics/ph...-20220623.html

Not to keep beating the drums of change here as we all know this but, until we change the tax structure to a more business friendly one, there will be NO meaningful movement beyond a few outlier companies that benefit from the optics of city living and employee quality of life. Fortune 500 companies don't really give a crap about those things.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

I’m starting to lean toward Green.

Same.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by UrbanRevival

Bear in mind that expansion of nighttime activity can actually be a natural deterrent to crime, if done strategically. Obviously crime can still happen in crowded areas at any time of day, but it's far less likely with so many "eyes on the street."

It's not an easy task, no doubt, but there's a real opportunity for the city to really improve the perception of safety--and more importantly, drive down the potential for shady activity in otherwise quiet and empty streets--in many neighborhoods with this kind of effort.

Chicken or the egg....How do you get people out on the street if it's too dangerous/unenjoyable to be out on the street?

We're old, frail people (not really) but we've started taking a pass on things we might have done before after a certain time of day. It feels like the city is even more dangerous than it was in the summer of 2020 when you had several converging forces leading to unsafe environs about town. You're right, tho. The primary difference between a town like NYC (which is in a class of it's own on a number of metrics) and Philly is the amount of people out on the street. The two places couldn't look more different in that regard.

The other thing that smacks you in the face is the percentage of homeless/junkies out there. There might be just as many in both towns but at 10:00PM, you have like 30% of the people out on the street that are homeless/junkies. In NYC, there's like 5% of people out there that are homeless. It feels like that percentage leads to that group feeling more empowered and thus more dangerous.

It's a perception but not one I share in a vacuum. Lots of people say this when they visit. I used to be proud to walk friends around town. The walk from Old City to Rittenhouse and back was a great one. It's embarrassing right now.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

I’m starting to lean toward Green. Sounds like he was pretty central to the tax cuts in the new budget plan and might be one of the more business friendly candidates.

https://www.inquirer.com/politics/ph...-20220623.html

Green has certainly impressed me.
What's nice about this upcoming election is that there are more good candidates than bad.

[BroadandMarket]

Originally Posted by Redddog

The other thing that smacks you in the face is the percentage of homeless/junkies out there. There might be just as many in both towns but at 10:00PM, you have like 30% of the people out on the street that are homeless/junkies. In NYC, there's like 5% of people out there that are homeless. It feels like that percentage leads to that group feeling more empowered and thus more dangerous.

It's a perception but not one I share in a vacuum. Lots of people say this when they visit. I used to be proud to walk friends around town. The walk from Old City to Rittenhouse and back was a great one. It's embarrassing right now.

I've noticed this as well which makes it even more baffling that people are resistant to a Sixers arena at 10th and Market. We should be thrilled that they aren't moving to Camden and want to double down on the city. Any additional foot traffic should be encouraged, especially around Market East which is not great at night.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Redddog

We're old, frail people (not really) but we've started taking a pass on things we might have done before after a certain time of day. It feels like the city is even more dangerous than it was in the summer of 2020 when you had several converging forces leading to unsafe environs about town. You're right, tho. The primary difference between a town like NYC (which is in a class of it's own on a number of metrics) and Philly is the amount of people out on the street. The two places couldn't look more different in that regard.

Someone's being especially negative these days.

NYC is indeed in a league of its own but as someone who still works in Manhattan and is there 2 days a week, I assure you many areas of Manhattan are (still) a shell of their former selves. During the week, many bars there are also rolling up the sidewalks well before they used to etc and even fewer office workers have returned to work as a percentage compared to pre-Covid than in Philadelphia.

Also. Gothamist just did an interesting article on how the media is exacerbating the perception of crime issues particular to NYC. While every category of crime (except shootings and murder) are at historic lows in New York, the perception is that crime is at multi-decade highs. On top of that, NY has started to see sustained decreases in the latter (shootings and murders) month over month but the hyperbole from the press (with a former cop mayor screaming at the top of his lunch) tells a story that things continue to spiral out of control.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Chicken or the egg....How do you get people out on the street if it's too dangerous/unenjoyable to be out on the street?

We're old, frail people (not really) but we've started taking a pass on things we might have done before after a certain time of day. It feels like the city is even more dangerous than it was in the summer of 2020 when you had several converging forces leading to unsafe environs about town. You're right, tho. The primary difference between a town like NYC (which is in a class of it's own on a number of metrics) and Philly is the amount of people out on the street. The two places couldn't look more different in that regard.

The other thing that smacks you in the face is the percentage of homeless/junkies out there. There might be just as many in both towns but at 10:00PM, you have like 30% of the people out on the street that are homeless/junkies. In NYC, there's like 5% of people out there that are homeless. It feels like that percentage leads to that group feeling more empowered and thus more dangerous.

It's a perception but not one I share in a vacuum. Lots of people say this when they visit. I used to be proud to walk friends around town. The walk from Old City to Rittenhouse and back was a great one. It's embarrassing right now.

Yes, there are plenty of homeless and crazy people in Midtown Manhattan (probably more than Center City), but I rarely feel uncomfortable because there are so many normal people out and about at all hours of the day. But yes, Philadelphia needs to make nighttime safety in Center City a priority, some stretches of Eastern Market, Chestnut, Walnut and Broad are in rough shape. Would more lighting make a difference?

Next time I spend a night in Philadelphia I will have to make a point to walk around CC after dark to understand the vibe you mention.

As far as the nighttime Mayor, I think it is a great idea and hope for improvements over time.

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by Redddog

It feels like the city is even more dangerous than it was in the summer of 2020 when you had several converging forces leading to unsafe environs about town. You're right, tho. The primary difference between a town like NYC (which is in a class of it's own on a number of metrics) and Philly is the amount of people out on the street. The two places couldn't look more different in that regard.

The other thing that smacks you in the face is the percentage of homeless/junkies out there. There might be just as many in both towns but at 10:00PM, you have like 30% of the people out on the street that are homeless/junkies. In NYC, there's like 5% of people out there that are homeless. It feels like that percentage leads to that group feeling more empowered and thus more dangerous.

Not trying to discredit your experiences/perceptions, but the idea that your perception of safety has gotten worse since the summer of 2020, and the on-the-ground data showing a nearly full rebound of pedestrian activity as of Q2 2022 since the beginning of the pandemic, just seems quite a bit...inconsistent?

https://www.centercityphila.org/rese...orts/socc-2022

Obviously Center City is still in a recovery phase, and people often forget that social service organizations have been decimated by the pandemic--leaving many unhoused individuals in more dire straits than they've ever been. But I have a hard time squaring improving economic metrics with a worsening environment in terms of crime/squalor.

But it's good to hear different points-of-view. I'd love to hear more perspectives from others.

[TonyTone]

I just read something about houston TX putting their 25,000 homeless population in new housing they built for them. How is that working out, and is the housing turning into a homeless project or is it actually helping them & putting them in a better position.

If its helping them we need to look at that, as others have stated the homeless issue is out of control, even in Center City we have them just walking in the streets waiting to be hit, while police do nothing.


There has to be some sort of enforcement, or plan to tackle this stuff.