HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #2061  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2023, 3:37 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,237
If the state cared at all they'd work on getting a bunch of crossings closed where possible with minimal inconvenience because there are way too many. This thing could kill a thousand people a year and Tallahassee wouldn't do anything though.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2062  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2023, 4:46 PM
UrbanImpact's Avatar
UrbanImpact UrbanImpact is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 1,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by k1052 View Post
If the state cared at all they'd work on getting a bunch of crossings closed where possible with minimal inconvenience because there are way too many. This thing could kill a thousand people a year and Tallahassee wouldn't do anything though.
Not happening. The crossings occur at EVERY major street and plenty of non-major streets with no space to bridge the streets over them as the rail line runs through the most urban areas of South Florida. The only area that was elevated was the entrance to Miami's station.

Downtown Fort Lauderdale crossing:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/9H4fNBYkd9NM9Lqo6

Midtown Miami crossing:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/j9ZxPnRtAU4X6dLm6

Boca Raton crossing:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/BdFVEcripMefHecV8

Downtown West Palm Beach:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Ta6ntum7xXaemDzN6

I don't see any viable solution other than elevating/burying the line as much as possible ($$$).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2063  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2023, 5:18 PM
202_Cyclist's Avatar
202_Cyclist 202_Cyclist is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,945
The California high-speed rail project is criticized (some of it deserved) for cost-overruns and delays. The California high-speed rail project was awarded $200M yesterday to eliminate grade crossings in the Central Valley. Yes, California's project costs (far) more but it won't have these unfortunate deaths that Brightline has.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2064  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2023, 5:45 PM
UrbanImpact's Avatar
UrbanImpact UrbanImpact is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 1,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist View Post
The California high-speed rail project is criticized (some of it deserved) for cost-overruns and delays. The California high-speed rail project was awarded $200M yesterday to eliminate grade crossings in the Central Valley. Yes, California's project costs (far) more but it won't have these unfortunate deaths that Brightline has.
Another issue with Florida Brightline is that it leases/shares tracks with freight rail on a corridor built in the 1800s. Brightline only owns the tracks at the Orlando spur. Even if the Brightline tracks were to be elevated or buried, it would need to accommodate heavy freight unless the track supports were to circumnavigate the freight line. Either way, the costs would approach California high speed rail prices on a private budget.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2065  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2023, 5:29 PM
dave8721 dave8721 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Miami
Posts: 4,044
$1.6 BILLION (!?!?) from the federal government to identify rail trespassing along Brightline route.
https://www.miamitodaynews.com/2023/...ember-28-2023/

Quote:
BRIGHTLINE SAFETY FUNDING: The Federal Railroad Administration will fund up to $1.648 billion for a trespassing identification and classification system for Brightline, it was announced Monday. The project aims to develop AI-driven software to Pinpoint trespassing locations and trespasser behavior. The initiative is part of a strategy to reduce rail trespassing in South Florida. The software will enable real-time computer analysis and data aggregation of trespass activity along the shared Florida East Coast Railway and Brightline corridor. The information will guide targeted infrastructure, enforcement, and education for Brightline, local partners, and the Florida Department of Transportation. Brightline and Wi-Tronix will jointly provide a 20% non-federal funding match. Brightline has battled rail fatalities along its line.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2066  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2023, 6:06 PM
TJTal TJTal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave8721 View Post
$1.6 BILLION (!?!?) from the federal government to identify rail trespassing along Brightline route.
https://www.miamitodaynews.com/2023/...ember-28-2023/
This is a typo in the article, it was a $1.6 million grant.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2067  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2023, 6:55 PM
SpongeG's Avatar
SpongeG SpongeG is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 39,154
__________________
belowitall
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2068  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2023, 5:14 PM
UrbanImpact's Avatar
UrbanImpact UrbanImpact is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 1,382
I'm not sure where to share this article, but, there's been a battle about what to do about the new river bridge rail crossing in downtown Fort Lauderdale. The current aging draw bridge opens too many times for Fort Lauderdale's yacht industry on the river (Fort Lauderdale is the Yacht Capital of the world) which is killing commuter rail plans in Broward County. The bridge currently serves Brightline trains and Freight trains.

The battle is between how to replace the bridge. A larger bridge is easier to fund and is preferred by the County and State, however, adjacent residents, developers, and The City of Fort Lauderdale are against due to the huge presence it would have. A tunnel is preferred by The City, adjacent residents, and developers , however, would cost above and beyond.

Here's the google map location:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/X9zC8YJR9aBewnSJA
______________________________________________________________________
Article:
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/2023/10...oward-prefers/

Broward County commissioners have decided they prefer the construction of a new train bridge for the New River, instead of building a tunnel, as part of boosting a commuter-rail system.

After being presented with four choices, ranging from the least expensive $303 million bridge to a $3 billion tunnel, the county recently concluded that it favors some version of a bridge — even as it acknowledges the city of Fort Lauderdale opposes the plans.

The bridge could be as short as 1½ miles long, versus the tunnel that could stretch 3½ miles.

If a bridge were to be built, the bill could ultimately be paid for by the federal government, state government, and county government.


Not so fast, says the city of Fort Lauderdale. The city’s mayor, Dean Trantalis, has long argued that building a bridge through its downtown would be a detriment to the city.

Developers, too, oppose the idea, and have long ago complained that a giant bridge would cast a shadow over a bustling city center. An underground tunnel is the best way to get Brightline’s high-speed passenger trains across the New River while preserving a growing downtown, they argue.

When U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg was scheduled to board an afternoon Brightline train from West Palm Beach to Fort Lauderdale on Tuesday, Trantalis on Tuesday morning said that he would tell Buttigieg: We need a tunnel.

“The Biden Administration has moved forward in trying to connect our communities,” he said.

When U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg was scheduled to board an afternoon Brightline train from West Palm Beach to Fort Lauderdale on Tuesday, Trantalis on Tuesday morning said that he would tell Buttigieg: We need a tunnel.

“The Biden Administration has moved forward in trying to connect our communities,” he said.


The city already has a train track that has “been for decades a barrier between those who live on those sides of the track and those on (the other side) of the tracks. A bridge will permanently cement that wall between the communities.”

The tunnel, he said, would extend north of Sunrise Boulevard to south of Davie Boulevard.

“The federal government told us numerous times they aren’t going to build (in) the middle of Fort Lauderdale, and the county has been told this,” he said.

On Tuesday afternoon, Buttigieg acknowledged he had received a pitch from the mayor for a tunnel. “The mayor definitely has that on his mind, and I know the mayor well,” Buttigieg said. “And having been a mayor, I know how important it is to listen to those local voices.”

County Commissioner Robert McKinzie said he doesn’t buy the Fort Lauderdale argument of opposing a bridge.

“Bridges have never divided communities, tracks have never divided communities,” he said. “People and economics have divided communities. But that’s what they’re throwing out there.”

Others expressed exasperation about an issue with no resolution in sight.

“It’s getting to the point where it’s as little bit ridiculous,” said County Commissioner Michael Udine. “We don’t have the money in this country to spend billions of dollars on a tunnel. They aren’t going to build a tunnel in South Florida right now.”

“We need to get across this river.”

Udine said the community is going to have a say: “We have to keep trying to move this forward somehow. At the end of the day, residents are demanding some form of commuter rail.”

Others said it was time to make a decision and ready for a formal vote.

“I want to get this thing going,” said Commissioner Mark Bogen. “Enough talking about the tunnel, it’s ridiculous cost.”

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Here's Pete on the Brightline yesterday riding from West Palm Beach to Fort Lauderdale:
https://www.thenextmiami.com/brightl...eg-takes-ride/

Last edited by UrbanImpact; Oct 18, 2023 at 5:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2069  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2023, 12:38 AM
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
Innsertnamehere Innsertnamehere is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 11,598
Reminds me of the Davenport diamond saga in Toronto - a $250 million bridge or a $1+ billion tunnel? Locals dramatized the impact of the bridge, begging for a tunnel which was 2-3 times the length.

Now a few years later the bridge is built, and surprise surprise, it’s completely fine.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2070  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2023, 3:39 AM
UrbanImpact's Avatar
UrbanImpact UrbanImpact is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 1,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
Reminds me of the Davenport diamond saga in Toronto - a $250 million bridge or a $1+ billion tunnel? Locals dramatized the impact of the bridge, begging for a tunnel which was 2-3 times the length.

Now a few years later the bridge is built, and surprise surprise, it’s completely fine.
I have a feeling that the outcome will probably be a compromise on a fancier costlier bridge. I’m wondering what would happen to Brightline’s Fort Lauderdale station in either outcome.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2071  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2023, 5:37 AM
SFBruin SFBruin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,189
^^ I'm generally of the opinion that, if a community wants something that will benefit them, then they should find a way to fund it.
__________________
Pretend Seattleite.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2072  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2023, 5:14 PM
UrbanImpact's Avatar
UrbanImpact UrbanImpact is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 1,382
Brightline Releases Miami-Orlando Ridership Data: ‘Strong & Accelerating’
https://www.thenextmiami.com/brightl...-accelerating/
"According to the report, there were 17,578 long-distance riders in the first nine days of long-distance operations in September, at an average fare of $84.

Strong market adoption continued into October. Between October 1-16, there were 40,219 long-distance riders at an average fare of $91. Total systemwide ridership including local trains between Miami & West Palm Beach was 104,322 from October 1-16."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2073  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2023, 10:31 PM
N830MH N830MH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,987
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanImpact View Post
“The Biden Administration has moved forward in trying to connect our communities,” he said.


The city already has a train track that has “been for decades a barrier between those who live on those sides of the track and those on (the other side) of the tracks. A bridge will permanently cement that wall between the communities.”

The tunnel, he said, would extend north of Sunrise Boulevard to south of Davie Boulevard.

“The federal government told us numerous times they aren’t going to build (in) the middle of Fort Lauderdale, and the county has been told this,” he said.

On Tuesday afternoon, Buttigieg acknowledged he had received a pitch from the mayor for a tunnel. “The mayor definitely has that on his mind, and I know the mayor well,” Buttigieg said. “And having been a mayor, I know how important it is to listen to those local voices.”

County Commissioner Robert McKinzie said he doesn’t buy the Fort Lauderdale argument of opposing a bridge.

“Bridges have never divided communities, tracks have never divided communities,” he said. “People and economics have divided communities. But that’s what they’re throwing out there.”

Others expressed exasperation about an issue with no resolution in sight.

“It’s getting to the point where it’s as little bit ridiculous,” said County Commissioner Michael Udine. “We don’t have the money in this country to spend billions of dollars on a tunnel. They aren’t going to build a tunnel in South Florida right now.”

“We need to get across this river.”
Nonsense!! There’s no tunnel! I know that. They don’t have a tunnel. Just stop talking about it! They cannot go under the tunnel. Just forget about it! No more talking about the tunnel. Just accept it!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2074  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2023, 2:00 AM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is online now
Show me the blueprints
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 10,375
Quote:
“It’s getting to the point where it’s as little bit ridiculous,” said County Commissioner Michael Udine. “We don’t have the money in this country to spend billions of dollars on a tunnel. They aren’t going to build a tunnel in South Florida right now.”
This is the funniest part of the article. If you believe this I've got, well, a tunnel to sell you. Not only do we have the money to do this, we have the money to do this in nearly every large city in the country and still spend less than the yearly defense budget.
__________________
Everything new is old again

There is no goodness in him, and his power to convince people otherwise is beyond understanding
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2075  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2023, 2:22 AM
Altoic's Avatar
Altoic Altoic is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,243
How will a tunnel hold up with climate change, flooding, etc? South Florida has historically been in favor of bridges. The MetroRail, highways, etc are all above ground. It makes no sense economically to dig the tunnel. The argument that we don't have the money is also dumb, as Busy Bee mentioned.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2076  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2023, 2:58 AM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is online now
Show me the blueprints
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 10,375
I haven't really followed this Ft Lauderdale debate that close though in regards to climate change fututeproofing and hurricane/storm surge flood prevention I'm confident engineers will plan for this with a tunnel option. Full tunnel portal enclosures (that is to say no open descending trackway that is below grade that would fill with water), higher elevation before both portals (though that seems like it would also result in either a longer tunnel or steeper necessary grade), an engineered flood door/bladder, or a combination therein are possible solutions.

You can build a tunnel in Florida, it just has to be assumed it may be at risk of flooding more frequently that other geographic regions.
__________________
Everything new is old again

There is no goodness in him, and his power to convince people otherwise is beyond understanding
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2077  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2023, 11:09 AM
202_Cyclist's Avatar
202_Cyclist 202_Cyclist is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,945
The race is on: Brightline seeks proposals for a new railway station on Florida’s Treasure Coast. Which city will get it?

By David Lyons
October 26, 2023
Sun-Sentinel

“One month after starting its new higher speed rail service from South Florida to Orlando, Brightline launched a competition Thursday to build the railroad’s newest station along Florida’s Treasure Coast.

Will the new stop be in Stuart? Port St. Lucie? Fort Pierce?

The winning location can expect trains to start service along the line’s new extension to Orlando in the first quarter of 2028, management said in a “request for proposal.”

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/2023/10...reasure-coast/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2078  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2023, 9:40 PM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 16,384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
I haven't really followed this Ft Lauderdale debate that close though in regards to climate change fututeproofing and hurricane/storm surge flood prevention I'm confident engineers will plan for this with a tunnel option. Full tunnel portal enclosures (that is to say no open descending trackway that is below grade that would fill with water), higher elevation before both portals (though that seems like it would also result in either a longer tunnel or steeper necessary grade), an engineered flood door/bladder, or a combination therein are possible solutions.

You can build a tunnel in Florida, it just has to be assumed it may be at risk of flooding more frequently that other geographic regions.
You're not answering the question of why taxpayers need to spend an extra $750M to appease a handful of rich homeowners, especially when a tunnel is guaranteed to flood at some point and a bridge is guaranteed to NEVER flood. The ability to run rail service continuously is the definition of sustainability.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2079  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2023, 11:56 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is online now
Show me the blueprints
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 10,375
I'm not necessarily advocating for a tunnel, I was just describing how one could be built to safeguard as much as possible against major rainfall or storm surge events. Not taking a position on whether the extra cost is or is not the correct or appropriate path.

That said I cannot hide my enthusiasm for tunnels. I'm a tunnel man. Some guys are bridge guys. Normal sized bridges... Huge bridges... Doesn't matter. Bridges are their thing. For me, give me a perfect little tunnel any day.
__________________
Everything new is old again

There is no goodness in him, and his power to convince people otherwise is beyond understanding
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2080  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2023, 9:06 AM
electricron's Avatar
electricron electricron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granbury, Texas
Posts: 3,523
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
I'm not necessarily advocating for a tunnel, I was just describing how one could be built to safeguard as much as possible against major rainfall or storm surge events. Not taking a position on whether the extra cost is or is not the correct or appropriate path.

That said I cannot hide my enthusiasm for tunnels. I'm a tunnel man. Some guys are bridge guys. Normal sized bridges... Huge bridges... Doesn't matter. Bridges are their thing. For me, give me a perfect little tunnel any day.
When New York City was hit by storm surges from a tropical storm a decade ago, most tunnels under the East River and Hudson River flooded and needed expensive repairs, no bridges were flooded and no bridges required repairs.
Bridges along the coast are better in that aspect alone.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 1:09 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.