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  #41  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 3:39 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is online now
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
Similarly, the U.S. did not make Cuba a state because it would have been a slave state.
Slavery was abolished in Cuba by the time the U.S. took control. Even if it hadn't been, slavery would have certainly been abolished in Cuba when the U.S. took possession from Spain.
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  #42  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 3:42 PM
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And then sometimes they hop back to the U.S. once they have citizenship.

For example, my sister-in-law's stepbrother, who is an Iranian immigrant to Canada, is an Ottawa-based techie who just got his Canadian citizenship. Now, as a Canadian citizen, he's eligible for U.S. tech jobs, and just got a position in Ann Arbor, MI. As an Iranian national, even with legal Canadian residency and work visa, he had no chance. He'll be making nearly double the income, and Ann Arbor, while incredibly expensive for Michigan, is still cheaper than Ottawa.
.
I know this phenomenon exists, as I believe 1 in 5 or 1 in 4 immigrants to Canada move to the US within 5-10 years.

That said, it's weird how the phenomenon is so very much under the radar in Canada. In that you rarely hear about neighbours or parents of other kids moving to the US here.

As I said, it's a real thing, but perhaps it's that those who end up moving aren't those who would make an effort to put down roots and make many contacts outside of their own specific ethnic community.
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  #43  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 3:49 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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Such an imbalance between controlled and uncontrolled immigration is insane.
it truely, truely is. leaves ya speechless. it's beyond broken.

what to do ... ?
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  #44  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 3:51 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
Maybe. Although NYC has one of the finest natural harbors on the East Coast (and if part of Canada, may have sucked away some of that function from Montreal).

I do find these alternative history speculations interesting. Imagine, for example if France did not lose Quebec, and if the original territory for Quebec had been retained. Quebec may have become a superpower.



Most of what was Quebec is no longer Quebec, and most of what is Quebec was not Quebec.
Wasn't Quebec was a British colony by 1774? By then the British controlled almost everything in North America between the Mississippi and the Atlantic Coast. The major gaps were Indian territory and Florida.
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  #45  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 5:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Eastern North American might have been a constant battleground for the better part of the last 2-3 centuries.
A big reason why the 13 colonies had to unify despite northern objections to slavery is that the northern colonies by themselves weren't particularly formidable and would have been vulnerable to an alliance between the southern colonies and England or France.

If the northern and southern colonies had formed separate countries at the same time, they would have competed over westward expansion.

In short, we're very, very lucky that things occurred the way that they did.
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  #46  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 5:26 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Wasn't Quebec was a British colony by 1774? By then the British controlled almost everything in North America between the Mississippi and the Atlantic Coast. The major gaps were Indian territory and Florida.
You're correct in terms of that map, but still the French possessions that France and Britain fought over during the Seven Years' War (know in the US as the French and Indian War) that ended with the Treaty of Paris in 1763 were quite large and encapsulated much of Ontario and the mid-section of the present-day United States.
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  #47  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 5:28 PM
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Slavery was abolished in Cuba by the time the U.S. took control. Even if it hadn't been, slavery would have certainly been abolished in Cuba when the U.S. took possession from Spain.
There was a movement by the characters who pushed southern secession to expand the Confederacy into the Caribbean and Mexico - to basically claim all of the Mexican territory that the previously united United States let the Mexicans keep after the Mexican-American War, plus Cuba and whatever other islands could be taken.

Had this actually taken place, there would have been an attempt to push English upon Mexico and Cuba, but enough Spanish-speakers would have moved to the Confederacy that the area would have developed a much different English dialect than the one it's known for today. There was also the whole Protestant vs. Catholic thing, so it would have been a mess.
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  #48  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 5:38 PM
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there is also the what if that the bogus trumped up mexican war never happened and the sw usa remained as part of the mexico of today. i would imagine another trumped up war would have come along later to address that.

the whole texas as country thing is just silly though as it would never have lasted.

otoh quebec as a country might have.
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  #49  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 5:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
A big reason why the 13 colonies had to unify despite northern objections to slavery is that the northern colonies by themselves weren't particularly formidable and would have been vulnerable to an alliance between the southern colonies and England or France.

If the northern and southern colonies had formed separate countries at the same time, they would have competed over westward expansion.

In short, we're very, very lucky that things occurred the way that they did.
All of us?
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  #50  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 6:11 PM
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Is growth for growth's sake good for a country? Does it improve the lives of the people who live in it? It is definitely good for business because they have a larger market and more workers. But does that benefit people? I think it gets murky.
It's not murky, most observers are in agreement that our crazy growth is leading to a diminution of GDP per capita and also of the quality of living for the average Canadian. Wages:housing ratios are worse and worse, and we keep admitting more people per year than we can house.

However, without this continued "Human Quantitative Easing" as we've started calling it in the Canadian subforum, we'd also run into a (different) brick wall.
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  #51  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 6:18 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
Imagine, for example if France did not lose Quebec, and if the original territory for Quebec had been retained. Quebec may have become a superpower.

France didn't so much "lose Québec" as it decided to get rid of it because it was too costly to maintain (defense budget in particular) for the little revenues it generated. The British actually offered to give Canada back to France during the peace negotiations, if France ceded St Domingue to Britain, but France refused (St Domingue was FAR more valuable than the entire Canada).

Lack of foresight if you will, but politicians often make short-term calculations, and not long-term ones. Besides, nobody in the French government in 1760 could have imagined that the prairies would become the huge agricultural land they became, or that they could support dozens of millions of people. At the time it was just some wild lands exporting a few furs. And they had no clue there was gold further west.
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  #52  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 6:22 PM
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it truely, truely is. leaves ya speechless. it's beyond broken.

what to do ... ?
Help Mexico and Latin America develop? But for that the US would have to ditch their "jungle capitalist" ways, which is never going to happen. They don't even care about poor people in their own country, so they are not going to care about poor people in Mexico or Central America. Result is millions of people crossing the border.
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  #53  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 6:27 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
It's not murky, most observers are in agreement that our crazy growth is leading to a diminution of GDP per capita and also of the quality of living for the average Canadian. Wages:housing ratios are worse and worse, and we keep admitting more people per year than we can house.
It's also leading to a major clash between Québec and the federal government at some point. That sort of level of immigration is not sustainable for Québec, as it will drown the Francophones in a sea of non-Francophone immigrants. It's comparable to the 19th century at this point (except back then the Québécois fertility rate was very high, whereas today it is very low, so they cannot expect to keep a distinct Francophone culture if 20 or 30 million immigrants arrive in Canada).
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  #54  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 6:27 PM
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Wow, France essentially turned down a Haiti-for-Canada swap? Talk about an epically bad decision.
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  #55  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 6:34 PM
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Wow, France essentially turned down a Haiti-for-Canada swap? Talk about an epically bad decision.
I recall one of my high-tech-fanatic friends (an electrical engineer) tried to convince me to buy bitcoins in ~2012, I had a spare $50k that I considered using for that; instead I used it as cashdown on a mixed commercial building that increased several times in value since, a horrible decision in comparison (though still decent).

Had I followed his advice, everything I own now would be a rounding error in comparison to my bitcoin holdings.

The moral of the story: I don't have a crystal ball, nor did the King of France in the 1700s.
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  #56  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 6:34 PM
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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
Help Mexico and Latin America develop? But for that the US would have to ditch their "jungle capitalist" ways, which is never going to happen. They don't even care about poor people in their own country, so they are not going to care about poor people in Mexico or Central America. Result is millions of people crossing the border.
nonsense.

its anybody else who should be picking up their charity game, not the usa.

i dk about last year, no doubt it was much more given the dire circumstances, but we do know the usa provided well over $330M in charity to central america and mexico in 2021. no one else has even come close to that:

The United States is the largest single donor of humanitarian aid in Central America and Mexico and to asylum seekers, refugees, and vulnerable migrants in the region.

https://www.state.gov/the-united-sta...ca-and-mexico/

and obviously its much, much more than that instate with almost 3M new immigrants last year here and needing support.

you really should be ashamed of yourself for those widely off base remarks.
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  #57  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 6:34 PM
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Wow, France essentially turned down a Haiti-for-Canada swap? Talk about an epically bad decision.
Sugar cane was very valuable back then, hence France's desire to keep St-Domingue (Haiti), Martinique and Guadeloupe.
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  #58  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 6:36 PM
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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
France didn't so much "lose Québec" as it decided to get rid of it because it was too costly to maintain (defense budget in particular) for the little revenues it generated. The British actually offered to give Canada back to France during the peace negotiations, if France ceded St Domingue to Britain, but France refused (St Domingue was FAR more valuable than the entire Canada).

Lack of foresight if you will, but politicians often make short-term calculations, and not long-term ones. Besides, nobody in the French government in 1760 could have imagined that the prairies would become the huge agricultural land they became, or that they could support dozens of millions of people. At the time it was just some wild lands exporting a few furs. And they had no clue there was gold further west.
For a very long time, up until maybe 50 or 60 years ago, there was a strong and lingering bitterness towards France and the French among French-speaking Canadians over this "abandonment". It's basically vanished at this point, however.
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  #59  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 6:47 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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For a very long time, up until maybe 50 or 60 years ago, there was a strong and lingering bitterness towards France and the French among French-speaking Canadians over this "abandonment". It's basically vanished at this point, however.
i dk why given what seems to be the other perspective. whenever i asked my french friends what they think of the french over here in quebec to a letter they laugh and say, “french hillbillies.” i don’t think that is very nice, and frankly i thought better of them than acting like brits, but chalk it up to general euro elitist attitudes silliness.
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  #60  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 7:08 PM
New Brisavoine New Brisavoine is offline
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Wow, France essentially turned down a Haiti-for-Canada swap? Talk about an epically bad decision.
It made sense at the time. St Domingue had a larger economy than all the British colonies in North America combined.
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