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  #3941  
Old Posted May 9, 2023, 6:43 PM
eschaton eschaton is offline
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
Pittsburgh underperforms perhaps every other US city of note when it comes to immigration. Frankly, I don't understand it given the presence of two major respected research universities (i.e. CMU and Pitt).

Pittsburgh's stagnation in this regard is actually holding all of PA up from a growth perspective. Southeastern PA is booming. We need the western part of the state to pick up the pace.
Top foreign-born groups in Pittsburgh:

China: 4,721
India: 2,564
Mexico: 988
Germany: 978
Canada: 938
Russia: 857
Korea: 716
Philippines: 660
Italy: 656
Vietnam: 609
Nigeria: 601
United Kingdom: 569
Kenya: 520
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  #3942  
Old Posted May 10, 2023, 1:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxRox View Post
The Empire Service definitely has more potential than the current tracks permit -- the 20th Century Limited in the 1920s was over an hour faster than today.

But if I'm choosing between a six hour drive dealing with backwoods roads and NYC drivers at the end and an eight hour train where I can do other stuff besides watching the road or even just relax for stretches at a time, I'd pick the train.
The train is certainly a more leisurely mode of travel and on occasion when I am not on a tight schedule I will use it. Back in 2010 there was a lot of discussion on high speed rail in NYS linking Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse Albany and NYC. The Swedish manufactured trains they highlighted were capable of achieving 150mph. Unfortunately the track-bed could only handle 75 mph, so there in lies the weak link. There hasn't been much discussion of this proposal in 10 yrs. (lack of political will and foresight IMO) which is a shame.

Last edited by Antares41; May 11, 2023 at 3:13 PM.
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  #3943  
Old Posted May 10, 2023, 6:21 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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cleveland sez goodbye nautica queen, hello lady caroline!


https://twitter.com/KerryMcCormack1/...507406849?s=20


See inside Cleveland’s new dining and entertainment cruise ship, Lady Caroline (photos)

Updated: May. 08, 2023
By David Petkiewicz, cleveland.com


CLEVELAND, Ohio — A couple hundred guests were on hand as Lady Caroline -- Cleveland’s newest dining and entertainment cruise ship -- made its way down the Cuyahoga River on Monday morning before docking at its new home at the Nautica Entertainment Complex.

...

The Lady Caroline is 120 feet and has 15,000 square feet of space on board. It has four decks, including three that are climate controlled, and an open-air sky deck that will feature a bar, a DJ and panoramic views of the lake.


more:
https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2023...ne-photos.html




***


also, more waterfront variety for tourists near cedar point --



New SolStay houseboat village offers on-the-water overnights in Sandusky

Updated: May. 10, 2023
By Susan Glaser, cleveland.com


SANDUSKY, Ohio – There’s staying near the water and then there’s staying on the water. A new lodging option in Sandusky offers the latter.

SolStay, a community of rentable houseboats, opened last month in a protected alcove of Sandusky Bay.

It’s the brainchild of Joe Lisa, a young entrepreneur who enjoys unique lodging options when he travels.

“We’re creating a little piece of paradise on Lake Erie, and having some fun while we do it,” said Lisa, 26, who also owns vacation properties in Michigan, California and Arizona. “People love something that’s different.”


more:
https://www.cleveland.com/travel/202...-sandusky.html


SolStay is a new lodging option in Sandusky, with eight houseboats on a protected alcove of Sandusky Bay.
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  #3944  
Old Posted May 11, 2023, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001 View Post
That pic is incredible. How the hell didn't that ship scrape the sides of the locks it passed through!?
Buckeye, they do all the time! you should see the typical Lake freighter
I think the cruise ships, particularly the uber expensive Viking ones have to be a little more careful than the workhorse ships.
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  #3945  
Old Posted May 11, 2023, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
^ yeah the two new Viking sisters look great, definitely the class of the current great lakes cruising fleet.

Here are the 10 ships with scheduled great lakes cruise itineraries this summer:


vessel (company) -------------------- length - tonnage - #pax

1. Viking Octantis (Viking) ---------------- 673' -- 30,150 -- 378
2. Viking Polaris (Viking) ------------------ 673' -- 30,150 -- 378
3. Hanseatic Inspiration (Happag-Lloyd) - 455' -- 15,650 -- 230
4. Hamburg (Plantours) ------------------- 473' -- 15,070 -- 420
5. Le Bellot - (Ponant) --------------------- 431' -- 10,000 -- 184
6. Le Dumont-d'Urville - (Ponant) --------- 431' -- 10,000 -- 184
7. Ocean Explorer (Vantage) --------------- 343' --- 8,230 -- 162
8. Pearl Mist (Pearl Seas) ------------------- 325' --- 5,110 -- 210
9. Ocean Navigator (American Queen) ----- 300' --- 4,950 -- 202
10. Ocean Voyager (American Queen) ------ 300' --- 4,950 -- 202


Of those 10, only Hamburg (1997), Ocean Navigator (2001), Ocean Voyager (2001), and Pearl Mist (2008) are more than 5 years old.

As an aside, I find it amusing that 1/3 of the cruise ships expected on the lakes this summer have the word "Ocean" in their name.
The American Queens (Ocean Navigator/Voyager) definitely don't look to be the same caliber as the Viking ships
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  #3946  
Old Posted May 11, 2023, 2:58 AM
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The American Queens (Ocean Navigator/Voyager) definitely don't look to be the same caliber as the Viking ships
Yeah, those two have all the style, grace, and elegance of a tugboat compared to first class expedition ships like the Viking sisters.



Source: https://www.smallshipadventurecruise...ean-navigator/



Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_Octantis
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  #3947  
Old Posted May 11, 2023, 3:20 AM
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Thinking of making a visit to the National Museum of the Great Lakes in Toledo this summer. Anyone ever been?
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  #3948  
Old Posted May 11, 2023, 11:29 AM
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Thinking of making a visit to the National Museum of the Great Lakes in Toledo this summer. Anyone ever been?
I have not, but it's definitely on my list!

It's home to one of the five preserved great lakes freighter museum ships, the Col. James M. Schoonmaker, a classic 617' laker from 1911.


Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_C...M._Schoonmaker
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  #3949  
Old Posted May 12, 2023, 3:49 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
Thinking of making a visit to the National Museum of the Great Lakes in Toledo this summer. Anyone ever been?
yes, many times when it was in vermilion where it belongs.

vermilion is kind of the great lakes retired captain's and lake workers town.

however, since they moved it to toledo its dead to me.

seriously tho, its much expanded now and i would like to see it sometime.
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  #3950  
Old Posted May 12, 2023, 8:07 PM
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It would be cool to check out that museum...one day.
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  #3951  
Old Posted May 13, 2023, 3:18 AM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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i see via this peedee paywalled article cruise shipping in cle is way up for this summer --
and that is nice to finally see happening ---



Viking Cruises coming to Cleveland next month, as busiest ever Great Lakes cruising season gets under way

By Susan Glaser, cleveland.com
Updated: May. 09, 2023


CLEVELAND, Ohio – Cleveland is set to welcome a record number of cruise passengers this summer, as Great Lakes cruising continues to grow in popularity and Northeast Ohio is included as a stop on more itineraries.

According to the Port of Cleveland, 53 cruises will dock downtown this summer, carrying as many as 10,000 passengers. That’s nearly twice as many cruise stops as 2019, the year before the coronavirus pandemic shut down the cruise industry in the Great Lakes and across the world.

One day this season -- on Saturday, September 23 -- there will be three ships docked in Cleveland at the same time.

Three new cruise lines will make their first stops in Cleveland this year, including Viking, the Switzerland-based company best known for its high-end European river cruises.

Other newcomers include Ponant, a luxury French cruise line, and Pearl Seas, based in Connecticut.

“We are always looking to add new ports and experiences,” said Alexa Paolella, public relations manager for Pearl Seas, which will bring the sleek, all-balcony Pearl Mist to Cleveland starting in late May. “The Great Lakes are enormously popular,”

Indeed, both Great Lakes cruising generally, and stops in Cleveland, have grown dramatically in recent years.

This year, Cruise the Great Lakes, an industry trade group, is anticipating as many as 170,000 passenger visits to Great Lakes ports – up 15% over 2022 – for a total economic impact of $180 million.

A recent report estimated that each cruise passenger in Cleveland spends approximately $150 -- or $1.5 million for 10,000 travelers -- a fraction of the total economic impact, which also includes the salaries of dock workers, tour operators and others, according to Dave Gutheil, chief commercial officer for the port.

The 2023 Cleveland cruise season kicks off this week, with the arrival Wednesday of the Ocean Navigator, a 202-passenger ship that’s part of American Queen Voyages, a company that has made numerous sailings through the Great Lakes in recent years.

A century ago, cruising in the Great Lakes was big business, with dozens of ships plying the waters, before the growth of the interstate highway system and the discovery of more exotic vacation destinations.

About a decade or so ago, tourism and economic development officials started promoting the Great Lakes again.

“It really wasn’t on their radar,” recalled Gutheil, who has worked for years to attract cruise companies to Cleveland and the Great Lakes. “The worldwide cruise industry is fairly mature. There aren’t a lot of new places to go.”

It took a while, but companies finally saw the appeal of the Great Lakes region, which encompass two countries, nine states and provinces, industrial cities, quaint islands, unspoiled wildlife and 20% of the world’s fresh water.

The region has become even more popular in the wake of the pandemic, said Paolella. “Having somewhere you could go close to home, but also a different experience, was very appealing,” she said.

These cruises are not for the frugal, with prices starting at $12,000 per person on Viking’s new 378-passenger Polaris ship, which is sailing a new 15-day itinerary through the Great Lakes this summer.

Viking launched in the Great Lakes in 2022, with an eight-day cruise from Toronto to Milwaukee that did not stop in Cleveland.

This summer, the company is adding a second ship and a second itinerary, the Great Lakes Collection, which sails between Toronto and Duluth, Minnesota (or vice versa), and includes a full day in Cleveland. The first Viking stop in Cleveland is scheduled for June 13.

Shore excursions planned for Cleveland differ based on the ship, but typically include options to stop at the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, University Circle or the West Side Market. Many also include a tour of Northeast Ohio’s Amish communities.

Passengers aboard the new Viking Polaris can choose among a Cleveland Highlights tour, which includes a downtown driving tour followed by a stop at the Rock Hall; a Taste of Cleveland tour, focused on the West Side Market; an Arts and Parks tour, with a stop at the Cleveland Museum of Art and a drive through the Cultural Gardens; and hike or bike tours of Cuyahoga Valley National Park.

Part of what makes Cleveland such a popular stop, according to Gutheil, is the central location of its port, just west of Cleveland Browns stadium, in the heart of downtown.

“A lot of people like the fact that we’re so close to everything,” said Guitheil. “It takes them 5 minutes to get to the Rock Hall. And you can pack two excursions into the day.”

In addition, the port recently invested in a new customs facility on the waterfront, which simplifies and speeds up the customs process, as most Great Lakes cruises travel back and forth between Canada and the United States.

Even with the recent growth, Gutheil says there is room for more ships and more stops.

Indeed, Paolella, with Pearl Seas, said Cleveland will likely see more stops next year. “We’re making six stops in Cleveland this summer and I expect that will increase next year,” she said. “The guests love it.”


Cruise ships coming to Cleveland this year


Cleveland will welcome as many as 10,000 passengers aboard five different cruise lines this year. Here’s what you’ll see docking at the Port of Cleveland in 2023:

Viking Polaris, a new expedition-style ship with room for 378 guests and 256 crew.

Pearl Mist, an all-balcony small ship that accommodates a maximum of 210 passengers

Ponant’s luxurious Le Dumont-d’Urville, with an underwater lounge and room for 184 passengers. Le Dumont’s itineraries that include Cleveland are part of a Tauck tour.

MS Hamburg, operated by German-based Plantours, was built in 1997 and is the oldest and largest ship in the Great Lakes, with room for 420 passengers.

American Queen Voyages, with two ships, the Ocean Voyager and the Ocean Navigator, sailing throughout the Great Lakes. Previously known as the Victory ships, these two have been sailing in the region for nearly a decade.


more:
https://www.cleveland.com/entertainm...outputType=amp
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  #3952  
Old Posted May 13, 2023, 3:24 AM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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also, i see they already built a new cle port customs facility last summer to handle this upswing --



Cruising returns to the Great Lakes – and to Cleveland, which has a new customs facility for passengers

Updated: May. 11, 2022


By Susan Glaser, cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio – For the first time in more than two and a half years, a cruise ship docked at the Port of Cleveland, and visitors disembarked to explore the Land.

Among them: Jay and Barbara Lindsey, first-time visitors to Cleveland from Fort Worth, Texas, who were looking forward to exploring the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame; Jim and Monica Gohm from Prescott, Arizona, who were taking a tour of Geauga County’s Amish community; and Kathy and Jim Ross, from Tampa, Florida, also headed to the Rock Hall.


more:
https://www.cleveland.com/travel/202...assengers.html


A new customs facility on the lakefront in downtown Cleveland makes it easier for Great Lakes cruise passengers to explore the city.

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  #3953  
Old Posted May 13, 2023, 3:28 PM
Docere Docere is offline
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I found the ACS data on foreign-born by city. This of course doesn't encompass the total population of each group, since it doesn't take into account second/third generation, but:

Buffalo: 29,111 foreign born:

Largest countries:

Bangladesh: 4,276
Burma: 2,022
Thailand: 1,067
India: 978
Canada: 918
Dominican Republic: 880
Congo: 874
Nepal: 855
Jamaica: 817
Pakistan: 763
Iraq: 763
Yemen: 753
China: 740
Somalia: 587
Ethiopia: 523
Trinidad: 511
Haiti: 505

Very different demographically from Pittsburgh, where the foreign-born population is nearly the same size (27,306) but skewed mostly towards Chinese/Indian (lots of college/grad students).
That's a really distinctive foreign-born composition.
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  #3954  
Old Posted May 13, 2023, 3:51 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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^ its interesting to see somalis making their way around to other cities like buffalo. i dk if newly arrived or from columbus maybe? cleveland got some of the original columbus somali host city spillover.
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  #3955  
Old Posted May 13, 2023, 4:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
^ its interesting to see somalis making their way around to other cities like buffalo. i dk if newly arrived or from columbus maybe? cleveland got some of the original columbus somali host city spillover.
Buffalo and Upstate NY has been a destination for Somali and Somali-Bantu refugee arrivals since the early 2000s, though not to the numbers in Minnesota or Columbus. One Somali of note who arrived earlier is Mohamed Abdullahi Mohamed, who came to Buffalo in the 1990s, got degrees from UB, and worked for several local Buffalo area government agencies before being appointed Prime Minister of Somalia in 2010, but that didn't last long, and he returned to Buffalo. In 2017, while still living in Buffalo, he was elected President of Somalia and served from 2017-2022. His family still lives in the Buffalo area.
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  #3956  
Old Posted May 13, 2023, 11:09 PM
Docere Docere is offline
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Just read about this successful opposition to freeway expansion in Shaker Heights in 1970. It's a rather similar story to the Spadina Expressway opposition in Toronto, which would have cut through the affluent, largely Jewish suburb of Forest Hill. Freeway opponents saved the Shaker Lakes area in Cleveland and the Cedarvale Ravine in Toronto.

https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/55
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  #3957  
Old Posted May 14, 2023, 1:41 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Just read about this successful opposition to freeway expansion in Shaker Heights in 1970. It's a rather similar story to the Spadina Expressway opposition in Toronto, which would have cut through the affluent, largely Jewish suburb of Forest Hill. Freeway opponents saved the Shaker Lakes area in Cleveland and the Cedarvale Ravine in Toronto.

https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/55
except then they came back at it later and here in our current era they shoved their new highway thru the poor part of town instead:

https://www.transportation.ohio.gov/...unity-corridor

actually its not as bad as it sounds because in the meantime the neighborhoods became extremely depopulated. so we'll see the 'opportunity' it provides. its sad, but i think it will, ie., warehouses and the like on the western end. there likely will be some tod and more urban development too nearer the eastern clinic area. so while not the best idea, cle has always been overbuilt for highways, its not horrible as that old plan would have been.

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  #3958  
Old Posted May 14, 2023, 5:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Just read about this successful opposition to freeway expansion in Shaker Heights in 1970. It's a rather similar story to the Spadina Expressway opposition in Toronto, which would have cut through the affluent, largely Jewish suburb of Forest Hill. Freeway opponents saved the Shaker Lakes area in Cleveland and the Cedarvale Ravine in Toronto.

https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/55
The rich areas always block the freeways. Funny that even back then, the master builders knew their mobility + prosperity freeway rhetoric was bull. Detroit has a giant freeway in every directional except Grosse Pointe. DC apparently forgot to build a freeway in the wealthiest (NW) directional.
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  #3959  
Old Posted May 15, 2023, 11:53 AM
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^ what's interesting is that Chicagoland's very first expressway was the Edens (now a part of I-94), which opened in 1951 and serves all of the suburbs of the ritzy northshore.

However, the builders knew not to ram it right through the hearts of the communities, instead building it a couple miles west through a lesser developed corridor (at the time) that mostly paralleled the Skokie valley ROW of old NorthShore RR interurban line that went up to Milwaukee.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; May 15, 2023 at 12:14 PM.
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  #3960  
Old Posted May 15, 2023, 2:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
^ what's interesting is that Chicagoland's very first expressway was the Edens (now a part of I-94), which opened in 1951 and serves all of the suburbs of the ritzy northshore.

However, the builders knew not to ram it right through the hearts of the communities, instead building it a couple miles west through a lesser developed corridor (at the time) that mostly paralleled the Skokie valley ROW of old NorthShore RR interurban line that went up to Milwaukee.
Yup - urban expressway projects ran into issues when they started trying to rip up wealthy neighbourhoods. Running close by wasn't as much of a problem - large scale demolition is where they hit resistance.

Doing the same in low-income neighbourhoods happened as those areas didn't have the time or resources to push back against the expropriations. The wealthy areas did.

Most cities had plans for urban expressways through both poor and rich areas, with the poor areas getting built since it was both easier politically and cheaper (lower land costs). Very few urban expressways got built through wealthy areas.

In Toronto's case, it's two urban freeways were largely built through industrial and natural areas, avoiding neighbourhoods.. The planners of the time made a "mistake", if you could call it that, of trying to build their first urban expressway through one of the wealthiest neighbourhoods.. didn't work out too well for them. Even then, they managed to build the first part of it through a working class area no problem. The southern half through the wealthy area is what gave them problems. If Toronto had instead opted to build the Scarborough Expressway or Hwy 400 extension first instead of the Spadina Expressway, both of which would have run through working class areas, the expressway system probably would have been a lot larger today.


Related - I have this map of cancelled Cleveland Highways saved on my computer which I always thought was interesting. The as-built network is a bit different, but the corridors generally remain similar. You can see I490 extend eastwards into Shaker Heights where it would have terminated at a north-south freeway running from Maple Heights up to around I90 and E 185th St. There is also another east-west freeway running from Downtown roughly along US-322, and a north-south corridor going from Maple Heights to the second east-west corridor via the University area. Overall it's an insanely dense freeway network which is really overkill even by American standards - the only one of these unbuilt highways which would have been even half-way useful would have been a corridor connecting downtown to I271 to the east.

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