Great Lakes Cities

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Yeah, there's no way that a county like Monroe right next door to the most populous county in Michigan and with like 25 miles of Lake Erie shoreline stays as relatively undeveloped as it is if that shoreline was highly desirable.

I believe much of the Erie lakefront in Monroe County is protected land and owned by the state. Also, Grosse Ile is one of the most expensive communities in Wayne County. It's located at the mouth of the Detroit River in southern Wayne County.

[pj3000]

I don't see why it's surprising that Detroit would sprawl more to the north and west than it does to the south... just given the orientation of where the core city is and how it was laid out. Add in that established cities like Pontiac and Flint were major players in the auto industry right along with Detroit and you have even more reason for growth in that direction. Development grids are naturally going to extend out to the NW.

And with heavy industry naturally locating along the Rouge River and Detroit River to the south, I would guess that the suburbs in that direction are mainly 1950s to 70s era, without much newer sprawl. That's pretty common.

[Steely Dan]

^ if you reread, my surprise wasn't that there was a favored direction for sprawl, it was that DTW seemed to do little to attract further sprawl around it.

major airports are typically huge economic generators, supporting thousands upon thousands of direct and ancillary jobs, so I was a little surprised to see literal farms due south of DTW and not housing developments for some of those workers.

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I believe much of the Erie lakefront in Monroe County is protected land and owned by the state. Also, Grosse Ile is one of the most expensive communities in Wayne County. It's located at the mouth of the Detroit River in southern Wayne County.

Does Monroe county have strong green-belt or other anti-sprawl laws in place? I ask because metro Detroit sprawl spilling southwest seems to stop dead in its tracks at the Huron river, which forms the Monroe/Wayne border.

Google maps says it's only a 25 minute drive from the Huron river into downtown, which is actually fairly close-in from a time perspective

[edale]

I could be wrong here, but I think Detroit's airport is only recently a truly major airport. Cincinnati was Delta's number 2 hub after Atlanta, but when Delta and Northwest Airlines merged, Cincy lost the hub, and Detroit grew significantly. That's about the time the new terminal was built too, IIRC. Prior to that, I don't really remember DTW being a big deal.

Certainly seems like a different trajectory than O'Hare, which has always been one of America's biggest and most important airports. Maybe that helps to explain the differing land uses around each airport.

[Steely Dan]

^ DTW was a fortress hub for northwest airlines prior to the Delta merger, since the '80s, so it's been a major airport for a good long while now.

And the massive and new-ish mcnamara terminal was completed in 2002, 6 years prior to the Delta merger.

[edale]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ DTW was a fortress hub for northwest airlines prior to the Delta merger, since the '80s, so it's been a major airport for a good long while now.

And the massive and new-ish mcnamara terminal was completed in 2002, 6 years prior to the Delta merger.

Hm, well idk then. Cincinnati's airport is also at the fringe of the metro, and has only recently started to become a real jobs cluster, as it's become one of the leading freight airports in the country. Pittsburgh's is also at the edge of its metro, and has little development around it. You could say the same about Dulles, up til about 15 years ago. I don't think Detroit's situation is as odd as you're making it out to be.

[Crawford]

I'd think airports usually are bad for residential desirability. Who wants to live near a giant airport? Chicago's favored quarter is North/West in spite of O'Hare. No one says move to Glencoe bc you might hear planes all day and night (assuming it's on a flight path). Airport-related jobs are typically very blue collar. It's probably great for warehousing, but who wants to live near trucks and warehouses?

Thinking of major cities, it seems most mega-airports are in not particularly desirable areas.

[Docere]

Toronto's Pearson Airport is in Malton, which is part of Mississauga but really more connected to Brampton and cut off from the rest of Mississauga. The northwest GTA is very blue collar/industrial.

Seattle's airport is in the suburb of SeaTac, in the southern industrial sector of the region.

And isn't LAX really close to Inglewood?

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ if you reread, my surprise wasn't that there was a favored direction for sprawl, it was that DTW seemed to do little to attract further sprawl around it

yeah, my comment wasn’t really in response to your thoughts. More in response to thoughts about shoreline, distance, etc. I think Detroit’s suburban sprawl pattern makes sense, based on its orientation and rustbelt location. But yes, I also wonder why there wouldn’t be more development near an airport that’s a pretty busy hub.