Honolulu Rapid Transit

[BigDipper 80]

It looks like HART is finally about to open in the coming months:

• Video Link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OmutsF0CA0

I figured that it was time to start a thread about this controversial rail project as phase 1 wraps up after 50 (!) years of planning and construction.

[Busy Bee]

• Video Link

[homebucket]

Pretty cool project. I'm not sure if there are any forumers here based in Hawaii. But I'll see if I can get some shots of it on my next trip.

[FesterBestertester]

I can confirm that there is at least one person from Hawaii (Oahu) on here. Some background information on the rail may be helpful.

“The plan also includes $2.7 billion for mass-transit projects, including $2.5 billion for a fixed-rail system between Kapolei and Manoa.” Star Bulletin 2/19/2006

“On December 19, 2012 the Federal Transit Administration executed a $1.5 billion Full Funding Grant Agreement for $ 5 billion, 20-mile, Honolulu rail transit project.” Rail and Transit 12/20/2012

Note that the FTA approved a route that had already eliminated spurs to Waikiki and the University of Hawaii at Manoa, the island’s single largest source of traffic. After that happened, talk of traffic benefits all but stopped and they shifted to “transit oriented development.”

“The cost of the city’s rail project is now expected to swell to $6.57 billion as rail officials Thursday made public a new outline of the rail financial plan that incorporates additional utility work, traffic signals and finance charges that had not been included in previous cost estimates.” Star Advertiser 10/16/2015

“City transit officials announced in the spring that building rail now likely will cost an estimated $8 billion for the full 20 miles from East Kapolei to Ala Moana with 21 rail stations, about $2 billion more than what was estimated two years ago.” Star Advertiser 8/30/2016

“With the cost of rail being almost double its initial projected cost at a whopping $9.5 billion, lawmakers and citizens of Oahu alike are raising eyebrows.” Civil Beat 2/23/17

“During the Honolulu Authority for Rapid Transportation’s board meeting Thursday, it was shared that the increase includes $841 million in financing costs and $832 million in higher construction costs — brining the current estimate for the 20-mile project to $9.9 billion.” bizjournals 10/16/2020

“A new city estimate pushes rail’s completion date to 2033 and its total price tag, including financing, to around $11 billion.” Civil Beat 11/18/2020

“Rail’s new, official price tag is out, and the costs to build the transit line to Ala Moana have more than doubled in the past decade to $12.4 billion.

The new cost assumes that the full 20-mile, 21-station line now has a 65% chance of being ready to ride in March 2031, according to the presentation.” Civil Beat
3/12/2021

“HONOLULU (KHON2) — HART released its newest recovery plan on Friday, April 29 pegging the cost of a shortened rail route at nearly $10 billion.

HART said the estimated cost to complete rail to Civic Center instead of Ala Moana is $9.1 billion plus another $785 million in financing costs. The total would be to $9.9 billion.” KHON2 5/2/2022

The route was shortened by an additional 1.25 miles and two more stations were eliminated to bring the cost “down” to $10 billion since there won’t be enough money to complete it to Ala Moana center.

[FesterBestertester]

“Robbins then said it is HART’s responsibility to have the system ready to open to the public, ‘and I’m willing to stick my neck out that we will have that done by October.’” Civil Beat 1/9/2020

Honolulu rail transit line scheduled to begin operations as soon as December” Hawaii Public Radio 3/3/2020

“The first segment of the city’s over budget and long-delayed rail line will begin carrying passengers between East Kapolei and Aloha Stadium sometime in the second half of 2021” Star Advertiser 12/24/2020

“Honolulu’s rail project could be up and running this year, but there’s still a possibility it could face another significant delay.” hawaiinewsnow 6/14/2021

“Summer 2022 is the earliest the rail could begin partial operations, HART CEO says” Hawaii Public Radio 12/10/2021

“The Honolulu Authority for Rapid Transportation says it’s hopeful residents will be using trains by the end of the year” hawaiinewsnow 6/9/2022

“Assuming all goes as planned, Department of Transportation Services Director Roger Morton told the HART board on Thursday that the earliest the public could go for a ride on the system ‘would be in the June-ish time frame.’

He later added, only half joking: ‘My definition of June-ish includes July.’” Civil Beat 2/16/2023

Given the fact that they’ve been pushing the interim service date back for well over three years, I’d take the latest announcement with a grain of salt. Or a couple thousand grains of salt.

[Paniolo Man]

Originally Posted by FesterBestertester

I can confirm that there is at least one person from Hawaii (Oahu) on here. Some background information on the rail may be helpful.

You probably weren't talking about me but I'm from Oahu and go back twice a year. I'll try to take some good pictures next time I'm there. I have been watching the rail be built since I was in 6th grade, I graduate college next month. I'm hardcore in camp build rail, incompetence and bad management have turned this project into what it is. I remember thinking that the proposed opening of the full line in 2017 was too far away.

They should have built from Waipahu to UH Manoa first. Kapolei to Ala Moana (cut back to Civic Center) seems a lot less useful.

Operation has been 6 months away for three years now. I'll believe it when I see it.

[SIGSEGV]

damn, I'm going to a meeting in Honolulu at the end of April and was hoping it would be done by then!

[FesterBestertester]

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

You probably weren't talking about me but I'm from Oahu and go back twice a year.

No, I was talking about me.

I don’t support rail for a number of reasons, although I did when it was 26 miles including Manoa and Waikiki for $2.5 billion.

First, according to rail’s own final Environmental Impact statement, traffic will be worse in the future regardless, but rail will only reduce traffic by 1.7% as compared to the no build option. Use the numbers in table 3-12 of the EIS and calculate it for yourself. I don’t think that removing 17 out of every 1000 cars will even be noticeable.

Second, how can it possibly cost $533 million per mile? That’s an improvement over the $620 million per mile estimated in 2021, but it’s still over $100k per FOOT, and they’re building less than one mile per year. The Nagano - Kanazawa Shinkansen extension cost $120 million per mile, and they managed to build 6.7 miles per year with over 40% of it in tunnels bored through mountains. 142 miles, 60+ miles of tunnels, 21 years, $17 billion. I hope that the US Attorneys are still investigating after issuing three or four subpoenas to hart in 2019.

Third, maintenance is going to be a killer as long as it’s in good enough repair to keep running. The city’s maintenance estimate for the first year of operations from Kapolei to the stadium is $109 million, and they estimated ridership at 12,600. Hitachi has a contract for 13.25 years for $918 million, which works out to ~$69 million per year, or ~$190k PER DAY, which I believe we are already paying. Also noteworthy is what this $190k per day DOES NOT include:

“The Hitachi portion excludes electricity, security, administrative oversight and other so-called ‘O&M’ components needed to keep the elevated transit system running.
Under rail’s federal recovery plan, the power costs alone would come to about $19 million in the first year operating the full rail line to Ala Moana.

Administration, meanwhile, would cost about $8 million that year. Security would cost nearly $3 million.” Civil Beat 2/26/2020

Other factors that will make maintaining the system exceptionally painful include a projected fare box recovery of less than 25%, which results in the taxpayers having to subsidize more than 75%. Currently we have no dedicated funding source for maintenance such as a dedicated tax or fee. That means that the only currently legal source of funding for rail maintenance is property taxes. The GET surcharge, by law, can only be used for construction.

“When it's finished and operational, Honolulu’s rail transit system will lead to a 9 percent overall increase in property taxes on Oahu, Gary Kurokawa, deputy director of the City and County of Honolulu’s department of budget and fiscal services told a City Council committee Wednesday.

‘Based on broad calculation, if you need to raise $90 million it will be an overall increase of 9 percent in property taxes,’ Kurokawa said.” bizjournals 1/13/2016

I think they’ll push ahead and maybe even make it to the Civic Center eventually, but $1.3 billion for the last 1.25 miles to Ala Moana is going to be a hard sell to people tired of the gross incompetence, mismanagement, eye watering expense, and the constant stream of half truths, lies, exaggerations and delayed bad news.

[edale]

Damn, I was excited to learn Honolulu was in the advanced stages of building a metro system-- I previously had no clue. But it's disheartening to hear about the cost overruns, truncated route, and poor ridership projections. I do think it's important infrastructure for Honolulu, though. As Oahu's population has now exceeded 1 million, and with limited land to develop remaining, Honolulu is going to need to get denser in order to accommodate growth. It's the only major city for a vast geographic area, and I think its importance is only going to increase in coming years. Having rail will allow for growth to occur in a smarter, more sustainable way.

Given the massive amount of tourism Oahu receives each year, could there be some sort of traveler/hotel tax established to help fund operations? I agree a 9% increase in property taxes for residents just to pay for operations seems crazy. Surely there's a way to shift some of that burden to the visitors to the island. It's not like people are going to stop coming to Hawaii simply because of added taxes.

[deanstirrat]

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[deanstirrat]

Originally Posted by FesterBestertester

I don’t support rail for a number of reasons, although I did when it was 26

The numbers you are throwing out can't really be compared. Rail is an upfront cost. Its staggering and certainly should cost less to build but thats a nationwide issue. Even so, the cost of rail will be less that highways and car commuting. There is the price to upkeep roads. But there is also the price to pay highway patrol. The cost or drunk drivers and careless accidents. The price of each car on the road and their individual maintenance. The price of gas and the price of all that co2. The price of rail is much much less long term. The project will have a transformative effect when fully built out. Hopefully we can fix transit cost overages while were at it.

[Illithid Dude]

Hasn't this been downsized and truncated to the point where it basically goes nowhere and services nobody? Basically a San Juan situation.

[edale]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Hasn't this been downsized and truncated to the point where it basically goes nowhere and services nobody? Basically a San Juan situation.

19 stations, almost 19 miles. Only the two eastern most stations have been cut for a future phase.

[N830MH]

Can I ask you something? Isn’t all new stations opened? HNL airport station haven’t completed the construction. Which is one stations who has eliminated? Can they have more new stations??

[Innsertnamehere]

The parts east of the airport haven't even started construction yet from my understanding, which is really the critical part connecting into downtown and the high density areas around the Ala Moana Center.

It's an odd prioritization in my opinion. It'll probably be quite empty on opening day as it won't really go anywhere useful until the rest of the project can be built. Ideally they should have been building it to Waikiki in the first phase IMO - but that just adds more costs.

The high ridership component will probably be between the Airport and Ala Moana.. which is exactly the part they are building last.

[ardecila]

You have to build the train yard in Phase I…. With scarce land on a small island, there’s very limited choices for where to put the yard.

Experience in other US cities shows that airport train stations are used more heavily by airport workers than by tourists. So this Phase I should still have a useful ridership.

[Paniolo Man]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The parts east of the airport haven't even started construction yet from my understanding, which is really the critical part connecting into downtown and the high density areas around the Ala Moana Center.

It's an odd prioritization in my opinion. It'll probably be quite empty on opening day as it won't really go anywhere useful until the rest of the project can be built. Ideally they should have been building it to Waikiki in the first phase IMO - but that just adds more costs.

The high ridership component will probably be between the Airport and Ala Moana.. which is exactly the part they are building last.

They've got guideway built to about Middle Street.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by ardecila

You have to build the train yard in Phase I…. With scarce land on a small island, there’s very limited choices for where to put the yard.

Experience in other US cities shows that airport train stations are used more heavily by airport workers than by tourists. So this Phase I should still have a useful ridership.

In other US cities, rail is often via some weird people mover.
Look at a good example of rail connection like YVR to downtown Vancouver if you want to see useful ridership from tourists and workers. I know Vancouver doesn't have a highway through downtown, but still... Honolulu's highway doesn't go downtown as well. It skirts high density areas. It's an ideal city for transit... but two problems:
1) Island mindset
2) No good examples nearby

[mrnyc]

is this correct?

that its now open to aloha stadium? and that there is some work on the next two stations to the airport? then nothing yet except planning to waikiki and ala moana center??

so basically as planned its half built and open?

[MolsonExport]

very interesting. It would be great if it could go out to Waikiki, and then less people would have to rely on renting a car when vacationing in Hawaii.