Canada's population estimates: Record-high population growth in 2022

[someone123]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Canada has the lowest birth rate in both the English and French speaking world and has had for decades.

This is probably true although the Millennial cohort isn't that small and our society today still has a mix with relatively substantial Canadian-born populations. It takes a lifetime to fully shift the population after changing immigration policy.

I wonder what it will do to social cohesion in the future to have both age gaps and a gap between Canadian-born and foreign-born.

I also wonder how some Canadian issues like indigenous rights will change as a result of immigration. Right now we've got some portions of society making at times politically disconnected and ostentatious demands focused on European settlers. Somebody who moved here from Asia 10 years ago isn't necessarily going to feel the same connection.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I find that funny too!

In fairness, I notice that some of the Chinese-run Thai places, or the Thai places run by ethnic Chinese from Thailand, have chopsticks as well as a spoon and fork set on the table.

Originally Posted by edale

So, in your view, cultural norms are only expected to be followed one way? White people (notice how you use white rather than Americans or Westerners, as if Black or Hispanic people never ask for chopsticks at Thai restaurants...) are supposed to respect that certain cultures eat with their hands, but those groups are not supposed to respect that Americans and Canadians eat with forks, knives, and spoons? I don't see anything wrong with adopting the customs of the country you're in. Shared customs help formulate national identities. I think it's ridiculous that boy's family received $17,000 because a teacher hurt his feelings by saying that the fork and spoon method is not how Canadians traditionally eat. I wish I got paid every time my feelings got hurt in elementary school!

I see nothing wrong with adopting the customs of the country you're in either, but I also don't get bent out of shape if someone prefers to do something their own way. Doesn't hurt MY feelings. So the boy ate using a spoon and fork, how is that offensive? It's not like he took both of his shoes off, put his one bare foot on his seat and then rested his elbow on his knee while eating rice with his hand. If someone did that at a restaurant, even I would find that offensive. And the boy just didn't "get his feelings hurt." He was basically being bullied by school staff over the way he eats.

Originally Posted by edale

White people (notice how you use white rather than Americans or Westerners, as if Black or Hispanic people never ask for chopsticks at Thai restaurants...)

Because so far I've only seen white people do it; I've yet to see Black or Hispanic people ask for chopsticks at a Thai restaurant when there's already cutlery set on the table. They usually just use the fork, and leave the spoon alone, unless they're having soup of course.

And the McDonald's coffee case wasn't a frivolous lawsuit; I learned about it from a documentary about the case. It was an old lady that was permanently disfigured. (Corporately-sponsored) Media coverage made it seem like it was a frivolous lawsuit.

Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants

[phone]

Originally Posted by mousquet

As for Quebec City, I think some people on here just don't like the fact that they want to remain a French-speaking town.
They want everybody to speak English to them, that they call 'diversity'. One of these days, some will even blame on us for speaking French here in Paris.
This is something wrong, too.

This is preposterous. I can confidently speak on behalf of all Anglo-Canadians when I say that Quebec City wanting to remain a French speaking town is a problem for absolutely nobody.

[phone]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Because so far I've only seen white people do it; I've yet to see Black or Hispanic people ask for chopsticks at a Thai restaurant when there's already cutlery set on the table. They usually just use the fork, and leave the spoon alone, unless they're having soup of course.

Glad we have someone here taking diligent notes about how white, black, and hispanic people use chopsticks differently in Thai restaurants.

[Nite]

Originally Posted by mousquet

Why would they call their stuff wings, then? That's the question.
I guess that's because if people knew what it is actually made of, most wouldn't buy it.
So they have to lie. It's called decieving advertising or something. And yes, it has to be illegal.

As for Quebec City, I think some people on here just don't like the fact that they want to remain a French-speaking town.
They want everybody to speak English to them, that they call 'diversity'. One of these days, some will even blame on us for speaking French here in Paris.
This is something wrong, too.

The only reason why there's less immigration in the province of Quebec than elsewhere in Canada is because French is less spoken than basic English and possibly harder to learn, or so they say.
But you won't make me believe that Quebecers are more racist or intolerant than Anglo-Canadians.
That's just not serious.

I don't know where you get the idea that anyone on here cares if QC is french speaking or not.

The Quebec government controls it's immigration and currently has a target of 50,000 a year, which they can change at anytime.
It has nothing to do with language why Quebec has fewer immigration than the other big provinces as they can expand it to 100,000 only francophones if they want..

[Nite]

French isn't going to disappear from Quebec

• Video Link

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Nite

French isn't going to disappear from Quebec

• Video Link

So to back this claim up you post a video with stats that show that French is on the decline ?

Yes the video also says that the Québec government is determined to address this.

How successful they will be is anyone's guess.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Nite

I don't know where you get the idea that anyone on here cares if QC is french speaking or not.

The Quebec government controls it's immigration and currently has a target of 50,000 a year, which they can change at anytime.
It has nothing to do with language why Quebec has fewer immigration than the other big provinces as they can expand it to 100,000 only francophones if they want..

Québec only selects about half the newcomers who move here.

The rest are under the authority of the Canadian federal government.

Not to say that the federal government doesn't also select francophones for Québec. It does but as recently as last year it was revealed that the feds were massively rejecting student visas for young people from Africa who were already accepted by Quebec universities for programs in French. Whereas visas for students from India coming to study in English had way higher acceptance rates, for example.

[kool maudit]

Canada's whole "just get a big population" strategy for this century is very SSP.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Canada's whole "just get a big population" strategy for this century is very SSP.

Perhaps we are more influential than we think.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by phone

This is preposterous. I can confidently speak on behalf of all Anglo-Canadians when I say that Quebec City wanting to remain a French speaking town is a problem for absolutely nobody.

Assuming this is true, it still wouldn't take much growth for the currently tiny anglophone community in Québec City to start getting vocal support in the rest of Canada for the right to live (mostly) in English as they please.

The idea of "you live in Quebec so you should accept that it's francophone and adjust to that" is not really a universally shared sentiment in Anglo-Canada. This is obvious whenever it's tested by real-life examples.

[Nite]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Canada's whole "just get a big population" strategy for this century is very SSP.

This has always been the aim of the Canadian government since it's creation to make it harder/impossible for the US to absorb us.
Canada with a 100 million by the end of the century will be larger than any European country at the time.

[rpvan]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

That's not what the census figures show.

Stats for the province of Québec:

Mother tongue:
2011 >> 2021
- French: 79.7% >> 77.8%
- English: 9.0% >> 10.0%

Language most spoken at home:
2011 >> 2021
- French: 82.5% >> 81.0%
- English: 11.7% >> 13.2%

Main language at work:
2011 >> 2021
- French: 87.6% >> 85.3%
- English: 17.4% >> 19.5%

Stats for the island of Montréal:

Mother tongue:
2011 >> 2021
- French: 50.2% >> 49.3%
- English: 19.1% >> 20.9%

Language most spoken at home:
2011 >> 2021
- French: 56.0% >> 55.0%
- English: 27.6% >> 30.0%

Main language at work:
2011 >> 2021
- French: 70.8% >> 67.4%
- English: 38.9% >> 42.1%

These insane levels of immigration are not sustainable a- for Québec (as the census figures show; even with far more Francophone immigrants than in the past, the French language is declining), and b- for the stability of Canada regarding the Québec separatist issue, because the rest of Canada receives more immigrants proportionally than Québec, so the higher the level of immigration, the more the province of Québec declines as a percentage of Canada's total population, and this will open all sorts of cans of worms that you can't even imagine (when Québec falls below 15% of Canada's population, combined with a French language falling below 75% of Québec's population, I let you imagine the sort of existential angst this will trigger in Québec politics...).

If you go further back weren't the English numbers (as a proportion) higher in Quebec prior to the Anglo exodus in the 1970s/80s? Granted, French-Canadian birth rates were a lot higher back then which certainly helped to keep large demographic changes in check, though even Montreal had a Anglo majority back in the day as well when English, Scottish, and Irish immigration was sky high.

[someone123]

A slowly-changing percentage of French speakers in different settings doesn't by itself prove that French is in decline. You could theoretically have a larger absolute number of French speakers and zero assimilation to English with some migration of immigrants who speak English. In the long run Quebec could be better off having this minority and getting the resources from that while being 60% Francophone instead of 80%, as an example. Assimilation of Francophones in Quebec and birth rates are more relevant.

Furthermore there's the usual caveat about statistics and our world not being linear. We don't actually know much about how the status of French in Quebec in 2100 will look, and doing a linear projection from 1991-2021 census figures tends to produce a false sense of certainty. Even if you had the perfect long-term solution you could see some variation and maybe some census periods would be negative.

Canadian and Quebec politics in this area seem not so great. It's a mix of freaking out in the abstract about linguistic decline on one side and then hot button social justice issues on the other (issues du jour mostly imported from the USA). I could see this balance collapsing and looking odd in the rear-view mirror a few years from now, but who knows. I don't really think the 100 million Canadians while housing prices explode and we have high inflation with no GDP growth is going to age well. I think we will eventually have a shift back to a more basic focus.

[tablemtn]

Originally Posted by Nite

This has always been the aim of the Canadian government since it's creation to make it harder/impossible for the US to absorb us.
Canada with a 100 million by the end of the century will be larger than any European country at the time.

There would be more people living in Canada, but they wouldn't be 'Canadians' in the old sense, with the same history of fearing domination by the US. It might actually be easier for the US to exert greater control of Canada as Canadian demographics and culture shift away from Canadian nationalists (the 'Stompin' Tom fan' demographic, as someone put it) and into a much more globalized and international system.

[Nite]

Originally Posted by tablemtn

There would be more people living in Canada, but they wouldn't be 'Canadians' in the old sense, with the same history of fearing domination by the US. It might actually be easier for the US to exert greater control of Canada as Canadian demographics and culture shift away from Canadian nationalists (the 'Stompin' Tom fan' demographic, as someone put it) and into a much more globalized and international system.

High levels of immigrations is not something new to Canada and it was higher in the early 1900's than now.
Much of Western Canada was settled by non-British empire people from Eastern Europe. I would argus a farmer from Eastern Europe in early 1900 is more foreign than any immigrants Canada gets today who are mostly from urban centres moving to another urban centre.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rpvan

If you go further back weren't the English numbers (as a proportion) higher in Quebec prior to the Anglo exodus in the 1970s/80s? Granted, French-Canadian birth rates were a lot higher back then which certainly helped to keep large demographic changes in check, though even Montreal had a Anglo majority back in the day as well when English, Scottish, and Irish immigration was sky high.

Montreal had an anglo majority only for about 10 years in the mid 1800s, though it did feel like it had one for much of the city's history.

[MolsonExport]

edit. why bother? same shit, different can

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Nite

High levels of immigrations is not something new to Canada and it was higher in the early 1900's than now.

Canada was pretty empty in the early 1900's. Even Ontario had much smaller populations than Michigan, Ohio and the like. As in the U.S., a higher immigration share was less notable when immigrants were coming from a few European countries and weren't broadly distributed.

And BC as a defacto British outpost wasn't really an immigration issue, as Anglo Canada was essentially British until WW2.

[MolsonExport]

At the outset of the US Civil War, the United States had only 31 million people. which is nearly 9 million less than what Canada has today. It had more than doubled by 1900.