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  #161  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2023, 7:29 PM
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Originally Posted by TWAK View Post

They are the go-to excuse whenever the US has a recession or economic downturn, so at least for Americans it's going to be suspicious when they are blamed.
Yeah you don't really get that nearly as much in Canada.
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  #162  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2023, 8:47 PM
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Yeah, no one would ever call Montreal "non-diverse".

It's just a different diversity from that observed in Toronto and Vancouver, with fewer South Asian and East Asian people, and more Middle Eastern people and to some degree Latin American people. And way more Black people relative to Vancouver, though about the same as Toronto in this respect.

Similarly, Canadian cities are different from American ones in that they always have a much smaller Latin American population, and generally a smaller Black population too.

Though even in Canada the Black population is very different in its ethnocultural composition, being mostly Afro-Caribbean or Sub-Saharan African here.
Isn't multi-culturalism even promoted in Canada, at least in modern-day Canada? No more forced assimilation?

I guess the only outlier to that was that case in the two thousand-aughts where the little Filipino immigrant boy was punished at school in the Montreal area for eating with a fork and spoon...

Filipino-Canadian student wins human rights case
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  #163  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2023, 8:59 PM
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I have no data to support this, but I suspect Canada's housing-to-income extremes are partly due to the stronger national or provincial planning oversight. Canada has, relative to the U.S. very restrictive growth rules which prescribe housing types and locations. So, for example, in the GTA, you get a ton of multifamily housing but not much SFH, but GTA residents are still living typical sprawly North American lifestyles, so you get insane prices on the SFH, while the multifamily can be quite reasonable.

The U.S. system generally results in much uglier landscapes and is unsustainable but is also more efficient and closely tailored to demand and lifestyle. It's myopic but reasonable while Canada's system is trying to shift housing norms. Throw in an extra 100k or whatever immigrants every year, and combine with limited regional mobility designed for a city half the size, and decent SFH with commutable location gets absurd premiums.
If what you say is correct and the NA population want SFH, then why do we need SFH exclusive zoning to ban all other type of housing from being built.
SFH exclusive zoning only exist because this SFH homes would fall to market demands and be turned into denser housing.
IF we removed SFH exclusive zoning then we would see what the population actually wants.
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  #164  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2023, 9:06 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
Isn't multi-culturalism even promoted in Canada, at least in modern-day Canada? No more forced assimilation?

]
Canada hasn't actively practised forced assimilation in quite some time, though the bar for integration as a "Canadian" has progressively gotten lower and lower here to the point where it's basically "pay your taxes and don't break (most of) the laws, and you're good".
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  #165  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2023, 9:08 PM
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I guess the only outlier to that was that case in the two thousand-aughts where the little Filipino immigrant boy was punished at school in the Montreal area for eating with a fork and spoon...

Filipino-Canadian student wins human rights case
That's Quebec though, plus it was a French-language school. It's still Canada and the Canadian approach, but the parameters can be slightly different.

This below for example isn't a widely shared view in Quebec. At least not when it comes to Quebec.

https://torontosun.com/2016/09/14/tr...-core-identity
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  #166  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2023, 9:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
Isn't multi-culturalism even promoted in Canada, at least in modern-day Canada? No more forced assimilation?

I guess the only outlier to that was that case in the two thousand-aughts where the little Filipino immigrant boy was punished at school in the Montreal area for eating with a fork and spoon...

Filipino-Canadian student wins human rights case
Quote:
In April 2006, Luc Cagadoc, then seven years old, was humiliated by a teacher at Lalande School in Roxboro who mocked him for eating with a fork and a spoon, something that is common practice among many Filipinos.

The teacher singled him out, saying it was disgusting, and asked him if people washed their hands in his country.

...

When his mother complained to the teacher and principal, Maria Gallardo says she received no sympathy.

She said the principal replied "'Well madame, you are in Canada, here in Canada that is the way we eat! You should learn the way Canadians eat!' What is the Canadian way of eating? I am a Canadian by the way!"
Strange. Don't most Canadians eat with a spoon or fork? It doesn't strike me as a predominantly chopsticks or hands using country. Here, we had them combined actually into something called a spork.
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  #167  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2023, 9:19 PM
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Strange. Don't most Canadians eat with a spoon or fork? It doesn't strike me as a predominantly chopsticks or hands using country. Here, we had them combined actually into something called a spork.
It was extremely dumb on the part of the teacher or principal, but I think the "issue" (if you can call it that) is that the child was eating with a fork and spoon, and not a knife and fork, or just a spoon.

Though of course many people around the world (including here) eat pasta for example with a fork and spoon, which makes this all the more stupid.
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  #168  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2023, 1:49 PM
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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
In London (England) they usually stuff the immigrants in already inhabited houses. So it's not rare to see a house inhabited by 8 immigrants (Romanians, Poles, Spaniards, etc), with 2 people sharing each bedroom. I've always wondered how long it could be sustained, but it lasted for nearly 20 years, then collapsed with Covid (London lost 300,000 people), but then last year again the UK registered the highest net migration ever (+500,000), so who knows.

It beggars belief why tentative migrants are ready to live in such degraded conditions, especially when they come from countries that have acceptable standards of living like Romania or Spain. There's something a bit irrational about migration. For a lot of people, it's the quest of a dream more than anything else.
I think most world cities experienced a dip in their population during the pandemic and lockdowns, but overcrowding is probably far too common in cities that have experienced population growth and excessive price rises across the Anglo-world, but also in other global hotspots.

Just the other week in East London there was the horrific case of a fire at a two-bedroom flat that left one dead. Nothing necessarily out of the ordinary until it was discovered that 18 people were residing at the address, and there was space for four more people. The landlord was collecting USD 10,000 each month in rent on a residence that was massively dilapidated. It is hard to pinpoint exactly why people willingly would choose to live in such conditions, perhaps it is for remittances back home, perhaps it is the hope that whilst circumstances are tough, they will get better because there are opportunities, particularly in the English speaking world.
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  #169  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2023, 3:08 PM
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If what you say is correct and the NA population want SFH, then why do we need SFH exclusive zoning to ban all other type of housing from being built.
SFH exclusive zoning only exist because this SFH homes would fall to market demands and be turned into denser housing.
IF we removed SFH exclusive zoning then we would see what the population actually wants.
I'm not sure I understand the question. Obviously an area zoned for high density housing doesn't make sense for SFH, even in a metro where SFH are the overwhelming preference. The land values would be too high for sprawly, low density SFH development, even in a Phoenix or Charlotte. But that doesn't mean that Phoenix or Charlotte homebuyers would benefit from restrictions on SFH and mandated high density housing zones.

Canadians live similar lifestyles to those in the States, more or less. But the housing situation is quite different.In Toronto, you see crazy high property values for SFHs, while multifamily housing is pretty in-line with other major cities, and generally cheaper than the really high-demand cities. You can pay $2 million for an Etobicoke SFH, or 300k for an Etobicoke condo. If you want to buy a SFH in Rosedale, you basically have to be among Canada's richest families. But if you want a condo, you just need a good professional job. That's a major disconnect.
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  #170  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2023, 4:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
That's Quebec though, plus it was a French-language school. It's still Canada and the Canadian approach, but the parameters can be slightly different.
That's still no excuse, though? That implies that multiculturalism isn't acceptable among Canadian French speakers.


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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It was extremely dumb on the part of the teacher or principal, but I think the "issue" (if you can call it that) is that the child was eating with a fork and spoon, and not a knife and fork, or just a spoon.

Though of course many people around the world (including here) eat pasta for example with a fork and spoon, which makes this all the more stupid.
Many southeast Asians eat with a fork and spoon, not just Fillipinos. Traditionally, a lot of southeast Asians ate with their hands; many still do at home, and at restaurants where that's the thing to do; in fact there are some Filipino restaurants in the LA area where they offer kamayan ("kamay" means "hand" in Tagalog). I know Indians also traditionally eat with their hands. In the use-your-hands-when-you-eat cultures of southeast Asia, they eat the rice like how west Africans use fufu to eat their food, or how Ethiopians use the injera bread to eat their food, or even how Mexicans use tortillas with their hands to pick up the meat and other food, and then put it in their mouth.

Anyway, when these cultures were introduced to cutlery by westerners, they started using the spoon and fork. The knives weren't necessary at the meal table because any meat or vegetables are usually cut into bite-sized pieces already when serving it, similar to chopstick-using people. But since southeast Asians are rice eaters, and often mix some meat/vegetables/some broth in with the rice before putting it in their mouths, that's what the spoon became used for (instead of mixing it all into a bite-sized clump with two fingers in one hand); you use the fork to push the rice/food onto the spoon and put the spoon in your mouth. The fork isn't used to scoop up food to put in your mouth.

Thai people also traditionally eat with their hands, and when using cutlery, also use a spoon and fork. That's why I think it's funny when white people at Thai restaurants ask for chopsticks when there's already spoons and forks set at the table, as if somehow they're being more "authentic" if they eat with chopsticks. It's actually easier to eat Thai food with a spoon and fork than it is with chopsticks. I feel like it's only easy to eat rice with chopsticks when the rice is in a little rice bowl, versus on a plate mixed with other food.
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  #171  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2023, 5:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Canadians live similar lifestyles to those in the States, more or less. But the housing situation is quite different.In Toronto, you see crazy high property values for SFHs, while multifamily housing is pretty in-line with other major cities, and generally cheaper than the really high-demand cities. You can pay $2 million for an Etobicoke SFH, or 300k for an Etobicoke condo. If you want to buy a SFH in Rosedale, you basically have to be among Canada's richest families. But if you want a condo, you just need a good professional job. That's a major disconnect.

Not sure if you've been paying attention to the Toronto multi-family market, but there aren't any $300k condos anymore. The average price as of 2022 is $780,923, and most of what's available are smaller 1-bedroom units. Family-sized 3-bedroom units are usually over $1 million. I don't know this compares to other global cities, but these prices aren't affordable on an average local professional income anymore either.
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  #172  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2023, 5:39 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post



Thai people also traditionally eat with their hands, and when using cutlery, also use a spoon and fork. That's why I think it's funny when white people at Thai restaurants ask for chopsticks when there's already spoons and forks set at the table, as if somehow they're being more "authentic" if they eat with chopsticks. It's actually easier to eat Thai food with a spoon and fork than it is with chopsticks. I feel like it's only easy to eat rice with chopsticks when the rice is in a little rice bowl, versus on a plate mixed with other food.
I find that funny too!
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  #173  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2023, 5:57 PM
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Well Canada doesn't have a Sunbelt. Outside of the little sliver of SW British Columbia, Ontario has the best weather and most temperate climates in Canada, while states bordering Ontario have similar, or even more temperate, climates are thought of by Americans as having shitty weather. Not much sense comparing the two.
There's a part of NS that is more temperate than anywhere in Ontario while the equivalent of the coldest parts of NS is in Southern Ontario. The winter temperatures are warmer, winters are way brighter, and the summers are great with better air quality. Moncton NB is the "weather twin" of roughly Peterborough while Halifax (the city, not the airport) is about on par with Windsor or Niagara in the winter for mean temperatures but with a bit less continental influence. I've lived in both Ontario (GTA) and NS and I would rather live in the climate in central or southern NS, although the gap is minor.

This is not meant as a "vs" or cheerleader thing. But basically NS and ON are roughly on par while traditionally NS was described as being worse than ON in basically every way, while NB was thought of as being maybe like Northern Ontario (not trying to make Northern Ont sound bad but a place like Saint John does not have Sudbury style winters and it is about 400 miles away from Boston, not far up in the Canadian north). The story with the economy and jobs and understanding of "where the Maritimes are" (thought to be ultra remote but no worse than most regions of Canada) is not really all that different. You won't get Toronto CEO type jobs in Moncton, sure, but Moncton is no worse really than almost all Ontario towns. I think this disconnect is part of why migration to the Maritimes suddenly became so much more popular and surprised people. It doesn't surprise me at all. It made no sense for a long time, and the perception was out of step with reality.
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  #174  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2023, 5:58 PM
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That's still no excuse, though? That implies that multiculturalism isn't acceptable among Canadian French speakers.




Many southeast Asians eat with a fork and spoon, not just Fillipinos. Traditionally, a lot of southeast Asians ate with their hands; many still do at home, and at restaurants where that's the thing to do; in fact there are some Filipino restaurants in the LA area where they offer kamayan ("kamay" means "hand" in Tagalog). I know Indians also traditionally eat with their hands. In the use-your-hands-when-you-eat cultures of southeast Asia, they eat the rice like how west Africans use fufu to eat their food, or how Ethiopians use the injera bread to eat their food, or even how Mexicans use tortillas with their hands to pick up the meat and other food, and then put it in their mouth.

Anyway, when these cultures were introduced to cutlery by westerners, they started using the spoon and fork. The knives weren't necessary at the meal table because any meat or vegetables are usually cut into bite-sized pieces already when serving it, similar to chopstick-using people. But since southeast Asians are rice eaters, and often mix some meat/vegetables/some broth in with the rice before putting it in their mouths, that's what the spoon became used for (instead of mixing it all into a bite-sized clump with two fingers in one hand); you use the fork to push the rice/food onto the spoon and put the spoon in your mouth. The fork isn't used to scoop up food to put in your mouth.

Thai people also traditionally eat with their hands, and when using cutlery, also use a spoon and fork. That's why I think it's funny when white people at Thai restaurants ask for chopsticks when there's already spoons and forks set at the table, as if somehow they're being more "authentic" if they eat with chopsticks. It's actually easier to eat Thai food with a spoon and fork than it is with chopsticks. I feel like it's only easy to eat rice with chopsticks when the rice is in a little rice bowl, versus on a plate mixed with other food.
So, in your view, cultural norms are only expected to be followed one way? White people (notice how you use white rather than Americans or Westerners, as if Black or Hispanic people never ask for chopsticks at Thai restaurants...) are supposed to respect that certain cultures eat with their hands, but those groups are not supposed to respect that Americans and Canadians eat with forks, knives, and spoons? I don't see anything wrong with adopting the customs of the country you're in. Shared customs help formulate national identities. I think it's ridiculous that boy's family received $17,000 because a teacher hurt his feelings by saying that the fork and spoon method is not how Canadians traditionally eat. I wish I got paid every time my feelings got hurt in elementary school!
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  #175  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2023, 6:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
Thai people also traditionally eat with their hands, and when using cutlery, also use a spoon and fork. That's why I think it's funny when white people at Thai restaurants ask for chopsticks when there's already spoons and forks set at the table, as if somehow they're being more "authentic" if they eat with chopsticks. It's actually easier to eat Thai food with a spoon and fork than it is with chopsticks. I feel like it's only easy to eat rice with chopsticks when the rice is in a little rice bowl, versus on a plate mixed with other food.
I feel like I don't see a lot of chopsticks given out from true Thai restaurants. Is it a thing to ask for them? lol. I do see them given out often at Asian fusion places, though.

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So, in your view, cultural norms are only expected to be followed one way? White people (notice how you use white rather than Americans or Westerners, as if Black or Hispanic people never ask for chopsticks at Thai restaurants...) are supposed to respect that certain cultures eat with their hands, but those groups are not supposed to respect that Americans and Canadians eat with forks, knives, and spoons? I don't see anything wrong with adopting the customs of the country you're in. Shared customs help formulate national identities. I think it's ridiculous that boy's family received $17,000 because a teacher hurt his feelings by saying that the fork and spoon method is not how Canadians traditionally eat. I wish I got paid every time my feelings got hurt in elementary school!
That case would easily be a racial discrimination lawsuit in the United States. The teacher asked him if people "washed their hands in his country" (nevermind that he's Canadian), which I think any reasonable person would find offensive enough and she should've absolutely been reprimanded for it.
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  #176  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2023, 6:23 PM
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I feel like I don't see a lot of chopsticks given out from true Thai restaurants. Is it a thing to ask for them? lol. I do see them given out often at Asian fusion places, though.



That case would easily be a racial discrimination lawsuit in the United States. The teacher asked him if people "washed their hands in his country" (nevermind that he's Canadian), which I think any reasonable person would find offensive enough and she should've absolutely been reprimanded for it.
Offensive? Yes. Reprimanded? Sure. But $17,000 for some hurt feelings? Please. And I have no doubt it would be a discrimination lawsuit in the US, too. Our court system is filled with frivolous lawsuits. You can sue McDonalds for their coffee being too hot. Someone just sued Buffalo Wild Wings because their boneless wings aren't actually wings.
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  #177  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2023, 6:33 PM
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That's still no excuse, though? That implies that multiculturalism isn't acceptable among Canadian French speakers.

.
That's actually kinda true. Long story, though.
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  #178  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2023, 6:39 PM
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Offensive? Yes. Reprimanded? Sure. But $17,000 for some hurt feelings? Please. And I have no doubt it would be a discrimination lawsuit in the US, too. Our court system is filled with frivolous lawsuits. You can sue McDonalds for their coffee being too hot. Someone just sued Buffalo Wild Wings because their boneless wings aren't actually wings.
How is it frivolous? They clearly had grounds to sue. Did the parents seek counseling for the child? Should the school be responsible for the cost of a therapist if their employee contributed to the child needing to seek counseling?
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  #179  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2023, 7:43 PM
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Someone just sued Buffalo Wild Wings because their boneless wings aren't actually wings.
Why would they call their stuff wings, then? That's the question.
I guess that's because if people knew what it is actually made of, most wouldn't buy it.
So they have to lie. It's called decieving advertising or something. And yes, it has to be illegal.

As for Quebec City, I think some people on here just don't like the fact that they want to remain a French-speaking town.
They want everybody to speak English to them, that they call 'diversity'. One of these days, some will even blame on us for speaking French here in Paris.
This is something wrong, too.

The only reason why there's less immigration in the province of Quebec than elsewhere in Canada is because French is less spoken than basic English and possibly harder to learn, or so they say.
But you won't make me believe that Quebecers are more racist or intolerant than Anglo-Canadians.
That's just not serious.
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  #180  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2023, 7:57 PM
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Federal and provincial gov'ts are both happy with maintaining the real estate ponzi-scheme but there is more to it than that.

Canada has the lowest birth rate in both the English and French speaking world and has had for decades. If not for high immigration, Canada would be soon facing japan & S.Korea's fate. There is a critical lack of labour both skilled and unskilled and this will increase as the Boomers continue to retire with few young people taking their place.

The gov't needs the revenue to care for these older people. While the CPP seems to be in decent financial state, Old Age Security {which everyone gets} is a huge drain on federal coffers. Added to this is the elderlies need for more healthcare not only because there are so many more of them but also because they are living much longer.

Canadians generally are far more accepting of high immigration than most countries and this is not only from the left but also the right. If the business community had their way we would be letting in twice as many immigrants. Many smaller businesses are closing and larger ones not expanding exclusively due to the inability to find workers even when they offer above average wages. Where the gov't has failed is building the housing that these new people will require little alone the current Canadians.

I totally expect these high numbers to continue and even accelerate.
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