WINNIPEG | Portage Place Redevelopment

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by armorand93

When I was a student 14-16, there was always drunks and yelling, tons of people passed out as well (Downtown Spirit didnt help shuttling them there either), one time they even used to DRESS AS STUDENTS running through the garbages & loitering on capmus itaelf... but the fights weren't too common. The fights usually happened off campus. I think I ever saw one fight at the U of W ever, between some junkie masquerading as a student, who somehow got U of W computer access, that just randomly started attacking the woman beside her in the computer lab. But thats all I saw for physical violence.

Then, came the stabbing late 2017 of some foreign exchange student, over his laptop, by some guy on meth looking for "payday". Around the same time, AnX started looking WAY rougher as well, and it was a regular occurence to see people camped out & even passed out, in the lower levels of the University (UWSA offices). And of course, the student unions never did anything and neither did security, until the stabbing. And anytime after that, security increased drastically.

U of W security is a joke. Its rare to find WPS on campus either, they'll always be on Ellice or Portage, but never taking walks through campus (too lazy?), so the West End & underworld in general just exploits the shit out of the U of W, for illegal purposes. I think in all of that time, minus WPS coming to criminal justice classes to advertise for recruits, I only saw them in the AnX maybe once. Its kind of disappointing, public safety wise.

Bad news about Garbanzos though. I never knew that they shut down. Same with Starbucks. Damn.

Wow! Didn't know that type of stuff occurred at Balmoral Station. Maybe a "carryover" fro the days of the Winnipeg Bus Depot days.

I've noticed not many real students are using Balmoral Station. I see more use Portage Ave. at Balmoral eastbound or the westbound stop in front of UW.


What does that say about one day a rail rapid transit station, underground or elevated would go near there? I guess as long as there is Transit security or WPS Cadets it should be fine.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

Wow! Didn't know that type of stuff occurred at Balmoral Station. Maybe a "carryover" fro the days of the Winnipeg Bus Depot days.

I've noticed not many real students are using Balmoral Station. I see more use Portage Ave. at Balmoral eastbound or the westbound stop in front of UW.


What does that say about one day a rail rapid transit station, underground or elevated would go near there? I guess as long as there is Transit security or WPS Cadets it should be fine.

wana make changes in the area start inforcing livability bylaws on the slum properties in the area

[WinCitySparky]

Exactly AJ. I live right across the street from one of these nightmare houses and the city enforces bylaws on everyone else except this dirtbag landlord. You are bang on.

[pspeid]

Some positive reaction to the planned community space in the Portage Place redevelopment plan.

Of course we have not idea what this might look like yet, or how it will work, but I think it's a positive sign that the community protest some of us feared might emerge has, for the moment, been defused in a positive way.

That being said it will be interesting to see what the developer ultimately proposes for the community space. I know there will be some who doubt a retail/residential space can co-exist with a 24 hour community centre and still be considered an attractive downtown location (what with all them there "undesirables" hanging around, don't cha'know?), but I am looking forward to seeing what ideas they come up with.

From CBC website:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...tion-1.5470248

[bomberjet]

What does that even mean? Just an outdoor plaza at Edmonton St? Or a park like setting somewhere in the back?

[EspionNoir]

The aim is probably to also boost the nightlife on that area, which is something a large city should have.

I like places that continue opening at midnight. Last night me and a friend of mine were finding a restaurant after around 9pm. Because many restaurants in southern Winnipeg close their doors at 9:30pm, it was hard to find a place. Then I recalled that Hargrave Street Market closes at 11pm, so we decided to go there and have one of the best ramen in the city. Having good late night options is definitely a plus.

[Luisito]

A 24 hour centre with public washrooms....So it will be like the back entrance is now except with public bathrooms.

[pspeid]

....and let the premature condemnation begin!!

[BuildUpWpg]

Originally Posted by pspeid

....and let the premature condemnation begin!!

Ya, the comments on that CBC article are horribly negative. Whether or not they have any merit, is up for debate. But you can tell racism is still rampant in this city, assuming that just because of the high number of indigenous and immigrant patrons there that hang out there that the mall is not safe. Sure there are incidents, but every mall has those. I think that most of white Winnipeg just feels uncomfortable with the roll reversal being a minority in a group of people. However as a frequent user of the PP food court (I've never witnessed any crime), I wonder myself...should the mall owners allow the food court to be a "clubhouse", especially since many of the attendees are not making a purchase from there?

[EspionNoir]

Or just keyboard warriors, we never know...

Just don’t let internet comment sections make you believe our society is full of bad people, even if the temptation is strong...

There are a lot of places in Winnipeg in which there’s racial diversity, so I don’t necessarily agree that all white Winnipeggers feel that way. In my experience, diversity increases in more urban communities, I believe this is also proven by research and surveys. Yesterday I visited Hui Lau Shan on Corydon. Even though it offered Chinese desserts, not only Chinese people order things there.

Turning it into a “clubhouse” will boost its appeal. After all, it’s what PP is able to offer that determines its appeal. Seems that doing so will cater the younger population more.

[bomberjet]

These days you can't even talk about indigenous people because right away it's racism.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by BuildUpWpg

Ya, the comments on that CBC article are horribly negative. Whether or not they have any merit, is up for debate. But you can tell racism is still rampant in this city, assuming that just because of the high number of indigenous and immigrant patrons there that hang out there that the mall is not safe. Sure there are incidents, but every mall has those. I think that most of white Winnipeg just feels uncomfortable with the roll reversal being a minority in a group of people.

Wait a minute here...maybe in your world there's "no reason" but when I hear about somebody getting jumped at Portage Place, the odds it's a Native person are pretty high. I don't look at Natives and say, "There goes a hooligan." but it's not exactly a state secret that Natives are a disproportionately large percentage of the criminal cohort in Winnipeg. Is this news to you?

I always find it laughable the excuses people will trot out when they want to ignore the elephant in the room. "Sure, it's dangerous there but those things happen anywhere." Yes, they could but they don't. Are you seriously trying to argue that Wellington Crescent is just as dangerous as Salter and Selkirk? Before responding, don't try to pull out the list of incidents at PP versus any suburban mall as though one incident at Kildonan Place is the same as 100 at PP or that a kid getting pushed around by bullies is the same as one getting stabbed.

I don't care who does it, I just know that people do commit violent crime at random. Why is it unreasonable to acknowledge that there are certain "give aways" when it comes to who's committing it? I'm not saying Natives are inherently criminal. Far from it. I'm saying that maybe people (especially those horrible, exploitative "whites") might have reasonable grounds to have noticed that when a violent crime is committed, disproportionately often it's a Native committing it? Is that really an unreasonable artifact to have made a note of? Why can't we tell the truth?

[esquire]

I am at Portage Place frequently and while there have been criminal incidents outside the mall and on the periphery, security keeps a very tight lid on the inside of the mall. They do a remarkably good job.

I'd say they've even upped their game in keeping the outside safe. I'd say it feels safer on the sidewalk or out back than it did 5 years ago.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by BuildUpWpg

Ya, the comments on that CBC article are horribly negative. Whether or not they have any merit, is up for debate. But you can tell racism is still rampant in this city, assuming that just because of the high number of indigenous and immigrant patrons there that hang out there that the mall is not safe. Sure there are incidents, but every mall has those. I think that most of white Winnipeg just feels uncomfortable with the roll reversal being a minority in a group of people. However as a frequent user of the PP food court (I've never witnessed any crime), I wonder myself...should the mall owners allow the food court to be a "clubhouse", especially since many of the attendees are not making a purchase from there?

I think most people are concerned the drug dealing that happens in broad daylight outside the mall will congregate to this 24/7 area. I also frequent the food court there and have never seen any incidents. In terms of the not making a purchase, last week I saw security asking someone to leave because they hadn't made a purchase. Most people who are hanging out there at least have a coffee or something.

[Luisito]

Why were people from the asembly of chiefs getting involved in this? Do they have a financial stake in this property?

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by EspionNoir

Turning it into a “clubhouse” will boost its appeal. After all, it’s what PP is able to offer that determines its appeal. Seems that doing so will cater the younger population more.

The Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, or the H.A variety? Because honestly lol, i can't see any good types of 24/7 "clubhouses" coming out of Portage Place. I mean, if they want to try making community spaces, by all means. But historically with the area, all have been used and abused horrendously, and thats just counting the daytime places, nevermind anything operating 24 hours a day, if not more...

If they're planning to build anything 24/7, it needs to be actually designed, staffed and secured to prevent another infamous repeat of whats been happening the past three decades. That being said though, with all of these indoor rec centres as well, along with aboriginal places to meet, cityplace and all - does downtown Winnipeg have the ability & capacity to so wholly absorb - and ATTRACT - full crowds to take full advantage of it yet not lowballing provate sector recreation towards going out of business, much like having one Subway in an area versus five Subways barely a few hundred meters from eachother? They definitely need to factor in the effects for pre-existing businesses & ameneties, around Portage Place.

[Jeff]

i think this 24/7 commmunity thing is just lip service to get the opposition to quiet down until the place is knocked over. i don't see how any private developer is beholden to build this kind of stuff on this parcel of property once they own it comepletely. portage place wasn't built on an ancient burial ground last time i checked so i don't understand how it became such a sacred space....

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by Jeff

i think this 24/7 commmunity thing is just lip service to get the opposition to quiet down until the place is knocked over. i don't see how any private developer is beholden to build this kind of stuff on this parcel of property once they own it comepletely. portage place wasn't built on an ancient burial ground last time i checked so i don't understand how it became such a sacred space....

100% agree. They are looking for public funding for this 24 hour space, the argument to decline this ‘public private partnership’ will be enough public funds have been dumped Into portage place over the years and this plan will fade away.

[esquire]

^ You guys are likely right. It's probably a way to defuse the whole issue. I don't see it as a bad thing either... there are many other places that could fill the 'local hangout' role. Portage Place is a mall, nothing more, nothing less. Starlight doesn't owe anything to anyone in terms of providing a community use space.

[DirtWednesday]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Wait a minute here...maybe in your world there's "no reason" but when I hear about somebody getting jumped at Portage Place, the odds it's a Native person are pretty high. I don't look at Natives and say, "There goes a hooligan." but it's not exactly a state secret that Natives are a disproportionately large percentage of the criminal cohort in Winnipeg. Is this news to you?

I always find it laughable the excuses people will trot out when they want to ignore the elephant in the room. "Sure, it's dangerous there but those things happen anywhere." Yes, they could but they don't. Are you seriously trying to argue that Wellington Crescent is just as dangerous as Salter and Selkirk? Before responding, don't try to pull out the list of incidents at PP versus any suburban mall as though one incident at Kildonan Place is the same as 100 at PP or that a kid getting pushed around by bullies is the same as one getting stabbed.

I don't care who does it, I just know that people do commit violent crime at random. Why is it unreasonable to acknowledge that there are certain "give aways" when it comes to who's committing it? I'm not saying Natives are inherently criminal. Far from it. I'm saying that maybe people (especially those horrible, exploitative "whites") might have reasonable grounds to have noticed that when a violent crime is committed, disproportionately often it's a Native committing it? Is that really an unreasonable artifact to have made a note of? Why can't we tell the truth?

Originally Posted by cheswick

I also frequent the food court there and have never seen any incidents. In terms of the not making a purchase, last week I saw security asking someone to leave because they hadn't made a purchase. Most people who are hanging out there at least have a coffee or something.

"I'm not saying natives are bad, but..." is exactly why I, a home owning indigenous man with a healthy career and no criminal record, am sick and tired of being followed in stores, stared at, not trusted to have money on his Tim Card at the drive thru, etc, etc. And I am far from the only native man/woman in my position! Prejudicial criminal insite is all about racism and it's racism because it's the easy way out, ignoring the complicated socio-economic history. Not being able to tell a clean-cut career injun from a drug dealing knife happy hooligan is what you get when you "tell the truth" about native people to the general public who's too busy with their own problems to look at an individual native person objectively.

Instead, I get kicked out of the PP food court 3 minutes after finishing my wrap and just starting on my pop, because "paying customers only (injun scum!)"