Lamenting the decline of the car

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by 240glt

^

Let's talk about significantly jacking up the price on airline flights and put massive tariffs on imported foods and goods and see what the reactions would be here.

Jacking up the price on flights would maybe herald the return of rail?

Also changing our diet to a seasonal/local would save a lot on the environment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_food

[lio45]

I'm pretty sure that MolsonExport's travels by plane - going to San Francisco no less than three times over the past year alone, for example - are a worse offender than my owning a 7.3 diesel 4x4 F350 (without truck nuts) that stays parked 99% of the time.

[misher]

Car manufacturers made a genius move and opened up a whole new market by catering to children. So while car use among adults may be decreasing, its more than balanced by the increase in car use among children. More luxury models continue to be released to saturate the market.




Just like the tobacco industry in its heyday, car manufacturers are expanding into the child market.



Even Tesla has began competing over the child market.
https://tesla.radioflyer.com/

[lio45]

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

I'm at least honest and consistent about it.

And so am I, in my opinion...

Originally Posted by 240glt

People's vehicle choices are a pretty easy target for drive-by disapproval and condemnation (pun intended) when there are far more factors involved in determining one's environmental footprint.

Let's talk about significantly jacking up the price on airline flights and put massive tariffs on imported foods and goods and see what the reactions would be here.

As always somewhere in the middle between the righteousness and dismissiveness is where the actual conversation lies.

Totally agree, but you should know that I'm all for jacking up the price of flights and imported goods. I'm on record saying that already here (multiple times).

To make up for the fact that lots of our fruits and veggies are imported in winter, healthy foods could easily get discounted.

A good taxation policy for foods would look like:

Healthy + grown locally = would move to being cheaper

Unhealthy + grown locally = approximately no changes
Healthy + grown far away = approximately no changes

Unhealthy + grown far away = would move to being pricier

Basically, we'd put a price on pollution, but at the same time we'd reward healthy choices (with healthcare being public, that's just a no brainer...), all while everyone's still perfectly free to do what they want - maybe even more free than we are right now.

(Actually, in my ideal pollution-pricing environment, we'd absolutely gain new freedoms. People could do various things that are currently illegal right now.)

[thenoflyzone]

Last week, Montreal saw close to 40 cm of snow in less than 24 hours.

I drive an AWD Ford Edge. The road leading to my house wasn't plowed. I made it to work that morning, on time, at 6h30 am. (Main roads and highways were plowed btw)

My co-worker drives a Toyota Corolla. He was a no-show.

Enough said....

[esquire]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Last week, Montreal saw close to 40 cm of snow in less than 24 hours.

I drive an AWD Ford Edge. I made it to work that morning at 6am, when my road still wasn't plowed.

My co-worker drives a Toyota Corolla. He was a no-show.

Enough said....

Driving ability has to factor in there as well...if you drive boldly and unhesitatingly enough, you can bust through most snowdrifts even in a Toyota Echo.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Last week, Montreal saw close to 40 cm of snow in less than 24 hours.

I drive an AWD Ford Edge. I made it to work that morning at 6am, when my road still wasn't plowed. (Main roads and highways were plowed)

My co-worker drives a Toyota Corolla. He was a no-show.

Enough said....

Do the math though - where's the financial equilibrium point (i.e. how many unpaid days off can one take per year to balance the difference in cost of ownership between a cheaper and more economical FWD Corolla and a larger, heavier, costlier AWD Edge) ?

Your co-worker had a free day off and you didn't - AND he saved money by being off, compared to you!

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by lio45

Do the math though - where's the financial equilibrium point (i.e. how many unpaid days off can one take per year to balance the difference in cost of ownership between a cheaper and more economical FWD Corolla and a larger, heavier, costlier AWD Edge) ?

Your co-worker had a free day off and you didn't - AND he saved money by being off, compared to you!

No he didn't. He was out plowing his driveway, trying to get his car out. To no avail. He showed up to work 4.5 hours late (exhausted btw) when the city finally came to plow his street.

He had donuts for everyone, on account of his retardmobile...

That's the rule where I work. If you're late, you don't show up empty handed.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by lio45

I'm pretty sure that MolsonExport's travels by plane - going to San Francisco no less than three times over the past year alone, for example - are a worse offender than my owning a 7.3 diesel 4x4 F350 (without truck nuts) that stays parked 99% of the time.

3 times to SF in 5 years. This year, only two trips to Europe (UK, Germany)

Anyways, how do you get to Florida? By kite? Air travel is certainly not environmentally the best, but I reckon that more fuel is burned pushing one person in a vehicle to Florida than what would be used, as their share, of a full plane of travelers going to Florida.

Anyways, we are not disagreeing. I don't bring truck nuts on the plane either.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

F20c, 2.0l

#naftw

I used to have an AP1; a Y2K S2K. Great car.
Sold it when my kids came around because it only seats two. My new toy seats four (barely).

[acottawa]

An economy ticket to Europe is about a tonne of carbon per pax. That is about 4000 km in a full sized pickup.

[240glt]

Air travel is certainly not environmentally the best

It's more than "not the best" It's one of the most carbon intensive ways to move people and goods. your two trips to Europe alone created as much carbon as a significant number of people generate in an entire year of driving.

[Mikemike]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

No he didn't. He was out plowing his driveway, trying to get his car out. To no avail. He showed up to work 4.5 hours late (exhausted btw) when the city finally came to plow his street.

He had donuts for everyone, on account of his retardmobile...

That's the rule where I work. If you're late, you don't show up empty handed.

We might be a better, happier, more productive society if rather than spending extra money on vehicles just to overcome conditions that exist for 4.5 hours a couple times a year we would just take a freaking snow day.

[thenoflyzone]

I was extremely happy and productive that day, I can assure you.....both at work, and outside work.

For a city dweller like me, nothing beats driving an SUV in 40 centimeters of snow.

That being said, I have 2 kids, soon to be 3. We take quite a few road trips/year. The extra room is a necessity. So is the ground clearance/ AWD with the harsh winters and pot holes we get in Quebec.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by acottawa

An economy ticket to Europe is about a tonne of carbon per pax. That is about 4000 km in a full sized pickup.

So about 3 months pick-up driving, versus what is usually a once a year vacation. The pickup driver spends 365 days a year dragging that uneccessary weight around, the vacationer, not so much.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

basically this. Ford, GM and Chrysler have produced shoddy, banal sedans for decades, that are almost in every way inferior to their Japanese (and to a lesser extent, Korean and European marque) counterparts.

why the fuck would someone buy a Ford Focus instead of say, a Honda Civic?

There are a few notable exceptions such as the Chevy Malibu which, when redesigned in 2016, was considered the best car in it's very crowded class which included the perennial favorites of the Accord and Camry. Of course it had caught up but now is no longer the leader as it is the plague of the NA manufacturers...……...always playing catch up.

Added to this is decades of sub-par products, bailouts, lower reliability, recalls, and their general inability to adapt and you have all 3 domestic makers suffering from a bad reputation. When you buy ANY domestic car regardless of it's value you will automatically get a lower resale value and have a harder time selling it. NA car sales today basically means that you can't aFORD an import. Take the ugly bowtie off any Chevy and replace it with a Honda or Toyota insignia and sales would double overnight.

So now the {once} Big 3 are now abandoning the auto market for future profitability but what makes them, or anyone, think that in 40 years they will not be suffering from the malaise in their truck/SUV market that they are today with their cars? Remember, 50 years ago the Big 3 had over 90% of the car market and the idea they would ever lose such dominance would have, at the time, been enough to have you committed.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

There are a few notable exceptions such as the Chevy Malibu which, when redesigned in 2016, was considered the best car in it's very crowded class which included the perennial favorites of the Accord and Camry. Of course it had caught up but now is no longer the leader as it is the plague of the NA manufacturers...……...always playing catch up.

Added to this is decades of sub-par products, bailouts, lower reliability, recalls, and their general inability to adapt and you have all 3 domestic makers suffering from a bad reputation. When you buy ANY domestic car regardless of it's value you will automatically get a lower resale value and have a harder time selling it. NA car sales today basically means that you can't aFORD an import. Take the ugly bowtie off any Chevy and replace it with a Honda or Toyota insignia and sales would double overnight.

So now the {once} Big 3 are now abandoning the auto market for future profitability but what makes them, or anyone, think that in 40 years they will not be suffering from the malaise in their truck/SUV market that they are today with their cars? Remember, 50 years ago the Big 3 had over 90% of the car market and the idea they would ever lose such dominance would have, at the time, been enough to have you committed.

I'd say cars like the Malibu are part of the problem. Look at how fast it's roofline is - that may be OK for a niche vehicle like my VW CC but not suitable for a family vehicle. It just exacerbates the problems others have mentioned about child car seats,cargo access and ingress/egress issues for seniors.

[IMG]419268-2016-chevrolet-malibu-premier by whatnextyvr, on Flickr[/IMG]

Image courtesy: https://www.pcmag.com/review/343647/...malibu-premier

[wave46]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

So now the {once} Big 3 are now abandoning the auto market for future profitability but what makes them, or anyone, think that in 40 years they will not be suffering from the malaise in their truck/SUV market that they are today with their cars? Remember, 50 years ago the Big 3 had over 90% of the car market and the idea they would ever lose such dominance would have, at the time, been enough to have you committed.

The Big 3 are worldwide corporations, so they can customize their products to each major market.

For instance, Ford will produce the Fiesta and Focus and still sell them in Europe, as they're quite popular there. If the North American market switches back to sedans, they still have competitive products they can import, or tool up to build here.

Likewise, Chrysler can leverage Fiat. GM faces a challenge, as it has recently sold its European operations (Opel/Vauxhall) to Peugeot.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Last week, Montreal saw close to 40 cm of snow in less than 24 hours.

I drive an AWD Ford Edge. The road leading to my house wasn't plowed. I made it to work that morning, on time, at 6h30 am. (Main roads and highways were plowed btw)

My co-worker drives a Toyota Corolla. He was a no-show.

Enough said....

...wait a second, who came out on top there

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by whatnext

So about 3 months pick-up driving, versus what is usually a once a year vacation. The pickup driver spends 365 days a year dragging that uneccessary weight around, the vacationer, not so much.

As long as somebody only takes one flight a year and doesn’t have a spouse or family.