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View Poll Results: What do you think?
Amazing, do it now! 49 52.69%
Looks promising 34 36.56%
Need more information 4 4.30%
Meh 5 5.38%
Gah! 1 1.08%
Voters: 93. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 3:59 PM
Channing Channing is offline
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Originally Posted by edmontonenthusiast View Post
anyone?
Looks like the changes stop halfway up Queen Elizabeth Park Drive, so no changes to that part of the road.
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  #22  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 4:15 PM
Top_Dawg Top_Dawg is offline
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Yeah, Top_Dawg likes it !

But $540 mil ?



Dat's a lotto cheese for a bridge.
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  #23  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 4:24 PM
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$130,000,000.00 hombre.

bow wow
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  #24  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 4:51 PM
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Love it baby!
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  #25  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 4:54 PM
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I like the chosen bridge design.

But PLEASE get it done ASAP before the costs start skyrocketing!!!
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  #26  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 5:38 PM
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I love this bridge. Not quite a signature bridge...but like mentioned above..high level is our sig. Man I cant wait to see this.
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  #27  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 7:20 PM
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Very nice. Sort of similar to Calgary's St. Patrick's Island Ped/Cycle bridge that's getting built soon.

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  #28  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 7:22 PM
Top_Dawg Top_Dawg is offline
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Originally Posted by Coldrsx View Post
$130,000,000.00 hombre.

bow wow


Professor_Dawg grows more and more weary of educating plebes with each passing year.

But it remains his duty - one he takes solemnly - so he soldiers on.

This despite his dismay with the tone and disposition of the whippersnappers he's forced to endure today. In his day it was unconscionable to display such disrespect towards faculty. Alas, now it appears as though such troubling behaviour is not only tolerated but encouraged.

Professor_Dawg will begin his lecture on the true costing of public works.

Now some find this to be a arduous and complex undertaking requiring long hours of committe work, collection and documentation of stakeholder input, expert analysis, and a profound understanding of both the technical and commercial realms of said project.

Yes it does.

But Professor_Dawg does not find these undertakings to be nearly as complex as many are wont to believe.

'Course most will naturally presume that this is as a result of the three decades Professor_Dawg has spent toiling in this field of academe.

Perhaps.

But he doesn't think so.

It comes as a result of the impressive grasp he has of the very original yet most misunderstood tool used in cost analyses.

Finance ?

Partly.

But hardly.

Statics ?

Statics is child's play.

Contract Law ?

Contract Law is for pussies.

Finite Element Analysis ?

In this realm one sooner finds himself occupied with Infinite Idiot Analysis.

What then ?

Professor_Dawg will tell you.

BASIC ARITHMETIC.

Merely the application of a simple formula will yield the true cost of any public works project.

What is it ?

Well for clarity let's designate the announced cost of said public works project by variable.

Commonly this designation is ' bs '.

Soooo......the formula:

true cost = 1.33 ( bs x 2 ) + ( bs x 1.5 )

From whence is it derived ?

Ahhh.....Professor_Dawg now comes to the crux of the matter.

First let's examine the bs x 2.

After decades tracking public works projects it has been proven that almost invariably a factor of two must immediately be applied off the top to tabulate the true cost of said public work.

How come ?

Professor Dawg will tell you how come.

When it comes to public works you can be sure that every politico, lawyer, bureaucrat, consultant, insurer, contractor, inspector, supplier, union and anybody even remotely associated with the project is gonna milk the fucken piss out of it. So right off the bat the cost immediately doubles from what the announced cost estimate is said to be. This phenomenon can best be summarized by the old adage: ' Fill yer boots Cleetus while the fillin's gooood '.

So why now is there a factor of 1.33 applied to the sum total ?

Good question.

You see, those in charge of procurement for any public works projects are no dummies. The purchase of material and labour never occurs when those costs are depressed. The very nature of public works dictates that these must be purchased when costs have or are about to peak. Thus a 33% premium is applied to the sum total.

So why do we now add the bs x 1.5 ?

Professor_Dawg will tell you why.

The politicos, lawyers, bureaucrats, consultants etc. etc etc. are never satisfied with the first round of graft.

In fact Professor_Dawg has yet to see a public works project where they have not come for a second helping. So that is why a factor of 1.5 is applied to the announced cost and tacked on to the end of the formula.

There you have it newbies.

Public works cost estimates explained.

Soooo............let's put your new found knowledge to use.

This recent Walterdale Bridge goat breeding gala can serve as a demonstrative example.

The announced cost is $130m.

Plugging this in the formula we have:

1.33 ( $130m x 2 ) + ( $130m x 1.5 )

A quick arithmetical calculation should yield the true cost of said project.

And what do you come up with ?

Professor_Dawg's abacus reads $540.8m.

Presto !

Furthermore, an integral part of public work costs is the socio-political fallout.

One can reasonably expect that business and property owners within the jurisdiction will be angry at having been misled.

How does this dynamic play out ?

This is where everybody involved plays the blame game.

Each party blames all the others.

For example such credible reasons as that within a bureaucracy of hundreds an honest oversight was made and a junior engineer ended up in charge of the biggest capital works project the department had going at the time.

Consultants blame bureeucrats.

Bureaucrats blame contractors.

Contractors blame consultants. Or bonding companies.

And on and on this clusterfuck drags on.

'Course the elected officials, being the only ones at risk of paying a political price, feign outrage and indignation and vow to get to the bottom of this.

Ultimately they get to the bottom of it all right.

Joey taxpayer's bottom.

Balls deep.

Sans lube.

And so newbs, that ends Professor_Dawg's lecture this afternoon.



You must excuse him as his esteemed tutelage is required for the rest of the afternoon to successfully guide a couple of graduate students through the challenging thesis preparation processs.

Adieu.
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  #29  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 7:31 PM
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Wow, that was one of the longest and most useless posts I have ever seen, somehow you make C2E look good
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  #30  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 7:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooster View Post
Very nice. Sort of similar to Calgary's St. Patrick's Island Ped/Cycle bridge that's getting built soon.

Meh. Lack of balloons and food carts just shows how far behind Calgary's design is...
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  #31  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 7:55 PM
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^ You seem a little obsessed with the irrelevant parts of the drawings of this very nice bridge. Strange.

@ TD, I've worked a lot of public jobs that have come in on budget. Yes some don't but I don't think you can automatically say that it will exceed budget by 3 X just becuase it is public works
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  #32  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 8:31 PM
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What did I just read

Why are people talking in the third person? I seriously thought there for a second that I had been transported into a C2E thread!
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  #33  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 9:03 PM
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Top Dawg is banned over at C2E... poor little poodle couldn't help but bash certain groups of people that have the same sexual orientation he does... The poor trainers over at C2E gave him chance after chance to clean up his kennel, but alas, you can't teach an old dawg new tricks I suppose... I don't see Top Dawg lasting very long here either...
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  #34  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 9:04 PM
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Don't mind this at all. Would have preferred to see the hairpin turn issue get resolved as part of it, but I guess it's not to be.

As for cost overruns, I would have worried during the boom times, but in the current climate it should come in on budget, although I'm not sure how much of that "lecture" was meant to be taken literally and how much is just your comedy schtick.
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  #35  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 9:46 PM
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Mycroft Mycroft is offline
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Not sure if anyone has posted this...

City opts for arch style for new Walterdale Bridge - Edmonton Journal
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...825/story.html
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  #36  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 9:58 PM
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^excellent...
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  #37  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallisgood View Post
Don't mind this at all. Would have preferred to see the hairpin turn issue get resolved as part of it, but I guess it's not to be.
Too politically and fiscally prohibitive to attack this one right now. Who knows when it will be addressed, but tying the bridge funding to roadway re-alignment meant the bridge replacement (which is needed) likely would be debated for years to come, and wouldn't happen when needed.

We'll come back to it in the future, but it is better to be divided up from actual bridge construction for now.
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  #38  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 10:23 PM
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Keats82 Keats82 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Not sure if anyone has posted this...

City opts for arch style for new Walterdale Bridge - Edmonton Journal
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...825/story.html
The article still quotes the cable option needing a tower three times higher than the high level bridge - is this not grossly exaggerated? Seems really unlikely, but hence why I'm asking.
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  #39  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 10:31 PM
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Nope. That was the original estimate, and we all thought it was a joke, but if you take into consideration the hight needed for the expanse in question of some cable-stay projects (look at Caltrava's in Redding, CA), it makes sense. The High Level is only 48m below the deck to the water, so 150m for a cable-stay isn't out of the question.
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  #40  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 10:34 PM
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Wow, that says wonders about the "disparity of complexity" in Edmonton architecture when compared to other major urban cities of the world!

Just in terms of height, scale, etc. Not trying to say Edmonton is this or that, so don't take it that route!!!
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