PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[mcgrath618]

The only retail being filled that I care about was Raising Cane's at 40th and Walnut. And now it's open, so I am satisfied.
My thirst for Cane's is a never-ending battle. I go to put ketchup on a burger and wish it was Cane's sauce. I go to put creamer in my coffee and grab Cane's sauce instead. I hope to one day find a way to get my faucet to dispense Cane's sauce instead of water.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

The only retail being filled that I care about was Raising Cane's at 40th and Walnut. And now it's open, so I am satisfied.
My thirst for Cane's is a never-ending battle. I go to put ketchup on a burger and wish it was Cane's sauce. I go to put creamer in my coffee and grab Cane's sauce instead. I hope to one day find a way to get my faucet to dispense Cane's sauce instead of water.

Is it that good? The pictures I've seen from the website look like regular KFC or royal farms chicken.

Now im intrigued.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

The only retail being filled that I care about was Raising Cane's at 40th and Walnut. And now it's open, so I am satisfied.
My thirst for Cane's is a never-ending battle. I go to put ketchup on a burger and wish it was Cane's sauce. I go to put creamer in my coffee and grab Cane's sauce instead. I hope to one day find a way to get my faucet to dispense Cane's sauce instead of water.

This one's for you, my friend:

Raising Cane’s opens first location in Philadelphia to long lines of 'caniacs’

[Urbanthusiat]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

Is it that good? The pictures I've seen from the website look like regular KFC or royal farms chicken.

Now im intrigued.

It is pretty good, but much like Wawa it has fans that are very insistent that it's The Best Thing Ever^TM and suggesting otherwise is heresy. I'd say it's more warranted for Canes than Wawa though.

[TonyTone]

So we have more info one the SEPTA "METRO" plans

https://iseptaphilly.com/blog/rrrphase2







I'm not gonna lie Scenario #1 is My favorite 30Min headways across the whole system with 15 Min headways in CC.

I like Scenario 1 because its 30 min headways across the whole system, this is a win for the whole area and opens up moving through the city and outside. This make it very easy for people who want to use the system or don't because its to infrequent or already do.

I like Scenario 2 but 15 minute headways to Chester and then 60 to Delaware is backwards the connectivity between Wilmington and Philly is more important then ever now especially with Wilmington growing and really getting heated up its important for these two links to be connected like Brother and Sister not just for the looks but for the economic presence and status that has grown now and will keep growing over time.

Scenario 3 is Interesting, if im looking at the map right are they showing connectivity to those major cities that far out? Does SEPTA go that far or would the be utilizing Amtrak or other systems ? I'm sure Mcgrath will chime in on what exactly Scenario 3 is.

I like these plans though and it really is gonna help the Philly metro grow even more and connect everyone even more at a faster and better rate.

[PHLtoNYC]

Look at Philly moving up 11 spots from last year (now #99). Positive movement for many Pennsylvania cities.

7 Pennsylvania cities ranked among nation's 100 best places to live by U.S. News & World Report

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...s-to-live.html


Another study from Pew (do they ever share a positive study about the city? While insightful, and I agree with the wage tax burdens, it's always doom and gloom from Pew).

Rise of remote work will cost Philadelphia $572M in non-resident wage taxes over next 5 years, Pew finds

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...Pos=0#cxrecs_s

[Boku]

PIDC seeks partners to develop massive biotech campus on 40 acres of Schuylkill riverfront property

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...cell-gene.html

The Philadelphia Industrial Development Corporation (PIDC) is looking for partners for what it is billing as a "landmark life sciences development opportunity" in the city.

The city's public-private economic development corporation wants to create a massive cell and gene therapy manufacturing complex across two sites totaling about 40 acres on Southwest Philadelphia’s Lower Schuylkill riverfront.

PIDC, marketing the development opportunity site as the "Lower Schuylkill Biotech Campus," is offering exclusive development rights across two distinct “North” and “South” riverfront sites — each one encompassing approximately 20 acres. It will consider partners interested in the development of a single unified campus, or individual options, for development. When combined, PIDC said, the campuses can accommodate about 1 million square feet of biotech production space.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Look at Philly moving up 11 spots from last year (now #99). Positive movement for many Pennsylvania cities.

7 Pennsylvania cities ranked among nation's 100 best places to live by U.S. News & World Report

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...s-to-live.html


Another study from Pew (do they ever share a positive study about the city? While insightful, and I agree with the wage tax burdens, it's always doom and gloom from Pew).

Rise of remote work will cost Philadelphia $572M in non-resident wage taxes over next 5 years, Pew finds

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...Pos=0#cxrecs_s

It’s certainly isn’t good but it may throw a bucket of cold water on leadership to finally reform the city to make it friendlier to business.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

Scenario 3 is Interesting, if im looking at the map right are they showing connectivity to those major cities that far out? Does SEPTA go that far or would the be utilizing Amtrak or other systems ? I'm sure Mcgrath will chime in on what exactly Scenario 3 is.

Confused by this as well.

Option 2 all the way though. I think frequent service to and from the inner suburbs (and the airport!) will have a greater benefit and increase ridership more than sending a train to Doylestown (etc.) every 30 minutes all day.

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

Scenario 3 is Interesting, if im looking at the map right are they showing connectivity to those major cities that far out? Does SEPTA go that far or would the be utilizing Amtrak or other systems ?

I work for SEPTA and even I'm confused by Scenario 3! We'd certainly have to update our operating agreements with Amtrak, and I'm not sure they'd be amenable to letting us operate further into already congested territory to the north and south (although the Wilmington/Newark Line should absolutely be serving Perryville, MD). Aside from that, there are several constraints that would need to be addressed before any of these scenarios could take shape. I don't think I'm at liberty to say too much, but we are definitely looking into some capital projects that will allow for increased service levels.

With all of this said, Scenario #1 is my favorite. The best way to grow ridership across the system is to provide greater frequencies to all lines. If people know that they can leave their house and not have to worry about waiting a very long time for a train, then they will be more compelled to ditch their cars and take a train into the city. The two next best things that could grow ridership are developing our inventory of parking lots (only 47% of Regional Rail riders arrive at a station via a personal vehicle) and adding new city stops (9th and Girard, 52nd and Lancaster, and 29th Street in Brewerytown are obvious candidates).

[mcgrath618]

I and many other people at 1234 are confused by Option 3 as well... we're not quite sure what it means.
Option 2 would be the best... if it didn't force people in the far suburbs to transfer. What it's essentially proposing is that every line be run like the West Chester Line in its last years, where you have to take one train to somewhere outside of Center City, wait, and then get on another train to your destination. And especially considering that unlike the other SEPTA modes, most Regional Rail riders don't walk to the station from their doorstep, I don't think it's viable.

Option 1 is therefore my favorite. 30 minute headways on every line, including through the night. During rush hour they'll still run express trains under this scenario, just not as frequently. And there's always the chance that all lines can run more frequently after awhile. The trunk line will still see metro-frequencies under this scenario, meaning that you can get anywhere between Wayne Junction and Penn Medicine with headways similar to the subways. I think that's a fair compromise.

I worry that if option 2 is chosen, they'll use it to justify less service on some lines that go out to the far suburbs. SEPTA loves shooting itself in the foot.

[TK2001]

https://phillyyimby.com/2022/05/phil...city-west.html

[mcgrath618]

I think I now fit squarely in the class of people who don't like this overbuild. A much better project would have been to demolish the building on the corner and build a tower connected to the other building at the base. Instead, it reminds me too much of Soldier Field.
A coworker of mine has recently opened my eyes to how bad the quality of architecture in new development has gotten. It wasn't all doom and gloom though, he showed me some beautiful new brownstones on Diamond near 16th that looked fantastic.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

I think I now fit squarely in the class of people who don't like this overbuild. A much better project would have been to demolish the building on the corner and build a tower connected to the other building at the base. Instead, it reminds me too much of Soldier Field.
A coworker of mine has recently opened my eyes to how bad the quality of architecture in new development has gotten. It wasn't all doom and gloom though, he showed me some beautiful new brownstones on Diamond near 16th that looked fantastic.

I think for this part of Center city West they should have went a lil taller.

The building has some swag but I Agree they could have put a nice slim tower on that corner and it would be better use of space for the whole property, kind of like a mini Arathus setup.

Also Brownstones? So we have any of those in Philly I thought that was a NYC and up thing.

In fact why are we so different from NYC when really its only an hour away.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

I think for this part of Center city West they should have went a lil taller.

The building has some swag but I Agree they could have put a nice slim tower on that corner and it would be better use of space for the whole property, kind of like a mini Arathus setup.

Also Brownstones? So we have any of those in Philly I thought that was a NYC and up thing.

In fact why are we so different from NYC when really its only an hour away.

Philly has plenty of brownstones, especially North Philly. What instantly comes to mind for me is the south side of Girard Ave between 20th and Corinthian.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Option 2 would be the best... if it didn't force people in the far suburbs to transfer. What it's essentially proposing is that every line be run like the West Chester Line in its last years, where you have to take one train to somewhere outside of Center City, wait, and then get on another train to your destination. And especially considering that unlike the other SEPTA modes, most Regional Rail riders don't walk to the station from their doorstep, I don't think it's viable.

Didn't realize this. It looks like peak would go direct to CC and avoid the transfer though, so I might still be in favor of this. There are only a few transfer stations. If they each had a decent climate controlled waiting area and a wait under 15 minutes for off peak only...

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Justin7

Didn't realize this. It looks like peak would go direct to CC and avoid the transfer though, so I might still be in favor of this. There are only a few transfer stations. If they each had a decent climate controlled waiting area and a wait under 15 minutes for off peak only...

But they don't. Most station buildings aren't even open past 10 AM. And there are no plans to change that.
Again, it reminds me a ton of how service was killed for West Chester and Newtown. They ran "shuttles" between West Chester/Elwyn and Fox Chase/Newtown and then were shocked when ridership plummeted. People really value a one seat ride.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

But they don't. Most station buildings aren't even open past 10 AM. And there are no plans to change that.
Again, it reminds me a ton of how service was killed for West Chester and Newtown. They ran "shuttles" between West Chester/Elwyn and Fox Chase/Newtown and then were shocked when ridership plummeted. People really value a one seat ride.

Bingo what's the point of using a system if you have to do bunch of extra steps when you can nip it in the bid from the beginning and make it easier for yourself by choosing a one seat Ride to your destinations.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

I think for this part of Center city West they should have went a lil taller.

The building has some swag but I Agree they could have put a nice slim tower on that corner and it would be better use of space for the whole property, kind of like a mini Arathus setup.

Also Brownstones? So we have any of those in Philly I thought that was a NYC and up thing.

In fact why are we so different from NYC when really its only an hour away.

Given the market right now, I think it’s great. Traditional commercial high rises are going to take awhile to come back particularly in Philly and will likely never be how it once was for better or worse. The design has been reappropriated for lab space and we’ll likely see more developments like this in the future.

Huh? There are lots of brownstones here. Ever been to Rittenhouse? Lol

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

Given the market right now, I think it’s great. Traditional commercial high rises are going to take awhile to come back particularly in Philly and will likely never be how it once was for better or worse. The design has been reappropriated for lab space and we’ll likely see more developments like this in the future.

It's not the purpose or the height that bothers me, it's the design. I don't get why people are saying that this is a good example of an overbuild. It's completely out of character with the existing buildings and completely overshadows them.