Winnipeg | 185 Smith St | Smith Street Lofts

[bomberjet]

Was downtown a couple times this week. My wife lamented how empty everything looks. Some of our favoutire places are for lease. She noticed and does not follow development, etc at all. Usually when she notices something it's super obvious haha... She's like the canary for me.

185 Smith was looking good. Still not sold on the balconies but we'll see haha. Based on the rendering, are they going to paint the brick? Or is that just another rendering thing.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Was downtown a couple times this week. My wife lamented how empty everything looks. Some of our favoutire places are for lease. She noticed and does not follow development, etc at all. Usually when she notices something it's super obvious haha... She's like the canary for me.

Exactly this. People might think I'm being negative but it's just stating the obvious... it does no one any favours to gloss over the problems that have accumulated over the last year and a half and just pretend everything is alright. But as Ando said, the challenge now is to come up with solutions.

[GreyGarden]

I feel like we all know what the 'solution' is though - residents and residents with disposable income. The problem, is I don't think there's a silver bullet that will create all this demand for urban living - which is maybe the really frustrating part. As more people move in, more stuff will open up to service them, which in turn attracts more residents, who attract more stuff and the circle continues.

I'm not super tapped in to the proposals floating out there, so I don't know if there is lots in the pipeline and developers are just waiting for the dust of Covid to settle a bit, but it could be that we still need government subsidies in some form to spur residential development in the downtown.

Further, there are other creative solutions like limiting development on the fringes of the city and establishing a green-belt to push people in to the city and increase prices - but that would require provincial involvement so we can forget that - further it doesn't seem to be on anyone's radar or even being talked about.

I guess my feeling is that yes, downtown has serious problems, and Covid has left it looking a little unpleasant, but there's still a little residential development happening which I think is the only "solution" to the problems we're talking about (a part from things like support for vulnerable people). While downtown during the day feels a lot different without as many office workers, the nights feel about the same and maybe even a little better with some residential projects complete and with some occupancy.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

Further, there are other creative solutions like limiting development on the fringes of the city and establishing a green-belt to push people in to the city and increase prices - but that would require provincial involvement so we can forget that - further it doesn't seem to be on anyone's radar or even being talked about.

It felt like the best recent years for downtown and inner city Winnipeg came during that brief alignment of periods where Winnipeg was experiencing population growth again but we hadn't yet seen large scale suburban development fully resume after the early 90s-mid 00s lull.

My impression at least is that a lot of people moved not necessarily downtown, but to inner city or at least inner suburban areas and helped reinvigorate those neighbourhoods, with spinoff benefits for downtown.

But once we got to a point around a decade ago where homes were being built dozens at a time in Waverley West, Sage Creek, Amber Trails, whatever the one in Charleswood by the Perimeter is called, etc., so much of the growth was being channeled into the urban fringes. Which has led us to the current situation. We are basically repeating the 1980s all over again... back then it was Southdale and St. Vital Shopping Centre. These days it's Bridgwater Forest and the outlet mall. Meanwhile, downtown suffers.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Some of our favoutire places are for lease.

What are these places? Just curious because I haven't lost any of my favourite places downtown during the pandemic (well, except Staples, I guess). The closures that I can think of are places that were already pretty dead even before covid. But there are probably ones that I'm not thinking about.

[buzzg]

Build ground floor with retail and it's like that forever. Put it in, and even if it sits for a bit, it will be filled one day. Also, this is a large residential tower – very good chances of filling it quickly with certain types of retail or hospitality with a built in audience. Especially on this stretch of Donald that has quite a lot of residential. Antares filled all units except one relatively quickly, the izakaya closed because they couldn't get a rent break, but I'm sure something will open there soon enough – already built restaurants are few and far between and highly desirable.

Originally Posted by 3de14eec6a

Nope, 160 still has two empty CRUs - I have no idea how they plan to fill the windowless corner unit. Someone else mentioned that it's a useless space.

190 just fit up their northmost unit, though at half the size of what it was. So they just have one small space left unused along Smith.

160 Smith is not empty due to lack of demand, I went to look at that space for an office and it's absolutely dreadful. I just can't wrap my head around who designed it – the blank black corner and horribly designed CRU.

There is that one tiny window and door for the whole space that I believe was over 3000 ft. Half of the space wraps around the indented corner so there's no light. Two MASSIVE columns and HVAC in the middle of the space render make it very difficult to really do much as it splits the space front to back and makes awkward hallways. None of the space is finished, they didn't even float the floor and said it'd 100% on tenant to build out the space, yet they're asking market rates.

That space will never be leased to anything other than a storage business, and only if they decide to white box it and drop the price. Agent said owner doesn't seem to care as they're clearly making enough money from the tower they couldn't be bothered to fix it. It's sad.

[zalf]

Why do landlords let CRUs sit empty for extended periods, anyway? Surely collecting any amount of rent is better than no rent. Seems like you do a Dutch auction, and get someone in there.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by zalf

Why do landlords let CRUs sit empty for extended periods, anyway? Surely collecting any amount of rent is better than no rent. Seems like you do a Dutch auction, and get someone in there.

In this specific example, they just seem unwilling to put a penny in up front, but the space is borderline unusable, especially in its current state.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

What are these places? Just curious because I haven't lost any of my favourite places downtown during the pandemic (well, except Staples, I guess). The closures that I can think of are places that were already pretty dead even before covid. But there are probably ones that I'm not thinking about.

Sana Soup House is the one she specifically noticed that day. Small place on Graham we liked going to.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by zalf

Why do landlords let CRUs sit empty for extended periods, anyway? Surely collecting any amount of rent is better than no rent. Seems like you do a Dutch auction, and get someone in there.

You'd think so. As I understand it, when banks finance construction they require that the building charge certain rents. So, even though a given CRU might never command the rents they're asking, the building owner isn't allowed to lower the rent to what the market will bear. I suspect this is why the owner of the space buzzg mentioned isn't willing to do anything to improve the space.

I agree, it's stupid.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Sana Soup House is the one she specifically noticed that day. Small place on Graham we liked going to.

Oh yeah, they closed early in the pandemic. I imagine it was especially hard for lunch-only places that depended heavily on office workers.

Can't think of too many restaurants that closed downtown. Hermanos, but they were struggling before the pandemic. Carbone pizza on St. Mary. Starbucks.

And there were some new openings: Modern Electric Lunch, Daanook.

[1ajs]

has yellow dog survived?

[damnedmenno]

has yellow dog survived?

Yellow dog will survive, currently being used as a scene in a TV series, but should be open end of August.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

has yellow dog survived?

They've been temporarily closed for quite a while, big yellow signs in the windows ("Sit. Stay. Good dog.") I think it's promising that the signs are still there...?

[peg]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

Oh yeah, they closed early in the pandemic. I imagine it was especially hard for lunch-only places that depended heavily on office workers.

Can't think of too many restaurants that closed downtown. Hermanos, but they were struggling before the pandemic. Carbone pizza on St. Mary. Starbucks.

And there were some new openings: Modern Electric Lunch, Daanook.

I believe the Second cup on Graham is also officially gone as I noticed for lease signs on their windows the other day.

[GreyGarden]

I saw this post on Instagram of the interior stairs for the two floor apartments. I think it looks pretty sharp.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQgW-q9g3vu/

[buzzg]

Gorgeous - this is a one of a kind building in Winnipeg, don't think there's anything like that in this city.

[Wpg_Guy]

Bricks are getting a pain job

[buzzg]

Normally don't like painting brick, but it seems like it's gonna look good here. I also just noticed the balconies aren't quite symmetrical, a bit odd as it's so close and uniform otherwise.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Normally don't like painting brick, but it seems like it's gonna look good here. I also just noticed the balconies aren't quite symmetrical, a bit odd as it's so close and uniform otherwise.

Likewise, but I think it will look good here. The two story configurations certainly change the look of the building. Just noticed the glass then railing finishes for the balconies. Odd.