Study: More Californians Moving to Houston than to Austin, San Antonio or Dallas

[SFBruin]

I guess the title is a little misleading, since it mentions California. But yeah, it is more about Texas than it is about CA.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by bilbao58

The story here is more are moving to Houston even though the perception is more are moving to Austin. This thread is not about California. It's about Texas.

Do you have the numbers for the Austin metro or Travis County?

It is interesting to see that Santa Clara County (Silicon Valley) actually gains more people from Harris County than it loses. In fact, one of the forumers here recently completed this exact migration route (although technically he's in Alameda County).

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by bilbao58

The story here is more are moving to Houston even though the perception is more are moving to Austin. This thread is not about California. It's about Texas.

You don't really need this thread for that. All we need are the stats for 2010-2020 growth of metros, which we have seen. I don't think Houston dipped in population during the later part of the decade, like the metro did in 1983-1984, but it did slow down. I am still surprised it has not slowed down even further and its construction industry has been strong given the weakness of its major industry.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by urban_encounter

Not at all. When we are repeatedly losing California grown companies to Texas because it has a much better business climate, lower taxes and cleaner streets (just to name a few), then the media should be asking questions in order to hold our State politicians accountable. Outward migration is just one aspect of that.

Companies move their headquarters all the time though. See Boeing from Seattle to Chicago. In fact, companies like Tesla are actually continuing to expand in California, and there's no indication they are planning to close the Palo Alto office.

Tesla agrees to big office lease in Palo Alto, despite HQ exit
By GEORGE AVALOS | gavalos@bayareanewsgroup.com | Bay Area News Group
PUBLISHED: October 8, 2021 at 2:07 p.m. | UPDATED: October 8, 2021 at 3:40 p.m.

PALO ALTO — Tesla has agreed to lease a big chunk of office space in Palo Alto, a distinct counterpoint to the company’s revelation this week that it would shift its corporate headquarters from Silicon Valley to Texas.

The electric vehicle maker has struck a deal to lease 325,000 square feet at 1501 Page Mill Road in Palo Alto, part of an office complex in Stanford Research Park, according to five sources with knowledge of the deal

https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/10/...spite-hq-exit/

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Do you have the numbers for the Austin metro or Travis County?

The study's numbers are here: https://www.storagecafe.com/blog/the...s-on-the-move/

What the Houston Chronicle's article conveniently fails to mention is that the DFW area (4 counties) has the highest total numbers and the Austin area (3 counties) has the second highest. At least when counting only the top ten counties. Counties surrounding Houston are not included because they aren't in the top ten.

[homebucket]

Also, I'm not sure that I buy that Texas has a "much better business climate". More tax friendly for sure, but it doesn't seem like a company like Tesla would've survived if it had been born in Texas. If you recall, they benefited greatly from rebates, both from the state and utility companies. The cost of a Tesla vehicle was reduced by up to $13,000, whereas Texas doesn't offer anything like that. This had a lot to do with Tesla's early successes. CA is also aggressively shifting towards EV while Texas is not. It's one of the lowest EV adopting states. And in fact, after the Austin factory is online, Tesla can't sell cars directly to consumers in Texas. They have to ship the car out of the state, and the back into the state.

At present, Tesla uses company-owned showrooms and service centers instead of traditional franchised dealerships, a business model that's rankled owners of franchised dealerships, leading to efforts by dealer groups in certain states to block Tesla direct sales.

In some states, these efforts are helped by existing franchise laws requiring automakers to sell through third-party dealerships. Texas is one of those states. It's possible to buy a Tesla in Texas, and the company even has some showrooms in the state. But all purchases must be handled as out-of-state transactions, routed through Tesla stores in other states.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news...exas-to-texans

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by SFBruin

I guess the title is a little misleading, since it mentions California. But yeah, it is more about Texas than it is about CA.

The study concluded that the California-to-Texas migration is indeed the largest in the country, but the actual number is still a tiny percentage of either state's populations. It also states that interstate migration (last year?) in the US was the lowest since 1947. Not a surprise.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Also, I'm not sure that I buy that Texas has a "much better business climate". More tax friendly for sure, but it doesn't seem like a company like Tesla would've survived if it had been born in Texas.

Not to mention our beloved NUTJOB Republican politicians spewing out CRAZY legislation that ought to scare off any rational business leaders.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by CaliNative

Houston is much like L.A. in urban form, but with 3 times the rainfall, hurricanes and tropical storms, hot humid summers and no mountains, hills or earthquakes. Otherwise quite similar. If I moved to Texas it would probably be to Houston or Galveston, the Santa Monica of Texas. I would feel right at home. As far as Austin goes, the hilly topography is more familiar, and the funky let it be attitude is somewhat attractive, but it is getting very crowded and expensive, and traffic might be the worst in the state.

I know that is a pot shot at Houston but I will see your hurricanes and humidity and raise you LA's fires, earthquakes and droughts. Oh and worst of all, the Kardashian/ Jenner cabal wreaking havoc on the city. And yes, the rain is a pain in the ass and looking forward to sunny days in the Bay Area.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Companies move their headquarters all the time though. See Boeing from Seattle to Chicago. In fact, companies like Tesla are actually continuing to expand in California, and there's no indication they are planning to close the Palo Alto office.



https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/10/...spite-hq-exit/

Word is Boeing might be leaving Chicago.
Where? Who knows.
Dc?

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by JManc

I know that is a pot shot at Houston but I will see your hurricanes and humidity and raise you LA's fires, earthquakes and droughts. Oh and worst of all, the Kardashian/ Jenner cabal wreaking havoc on the city. And yes, the rain is a pain in the ass and looking forward to sunny days in the Bay Area.

I actually think LA is a lot better looking than Houston and, if I were to live there, I'm guessing I would like it a lot more than I like Houston. There's no question in my mind at all that SF is more pleasant than HOU.

ETA: All things being equal, I would choose to live in New York, Chicago, LA or SF over Houston. But I'm in Texas.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by LA21st

Word is Boeing might be leaving Chicago.
Where? Who knows.
Dc?

Boeing needs to purge itself of its McDonnell-Douglas elements and get back to what it used to be. I don't think that will happen, though.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by 10023

The River Walk is nice? You’d love Navy Pier or Fanieul Hall. Or I can’t remember which pier in San Francisco, but whichever one has the Bubba Gump Shrimp location.

I saw nothing anywhere near as artificial and chain-dominated on the River Walk as at Fisherman's Wharf or Pier 39 and the River Walk is unique in its experience whereas FW et al are pretty much duplicated in every beach town. Everything I saw seemed either local/unique or attached to a hotel which may have been a chain hotel as most are. It's the below-grade, lush (in a dry climate), cool (relatively speaking) vibe that makes it attractive. Not the specific businesses although I enjoy outdoor dining in a pleasant city-center-but-separated-from-the-city milieu. Also I find it quite pretty at night.

I think once again, your unwarranted elitism and disdain for those you don't consider to have your sophisticated tastes is showing.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by bilbao58

I think of the River Walk as America's most scenic food court. At least the parts in Downtown. The River Walk outside of Downtown is more park like...not commercial.

The River Walk doesn't play much of a part in the lives of people who actually live here...unless they work there. That is why I prefer Houston...it is just a much more interesting and lively place to be than San Antonio. That's only my opinion, of course.

Stuck in San Antonio doing training at the military bases in the region, I found plenty to do in San Antonio. Houston to this outsider just seems a big hot sweaty garden variety American city with maybe enough transplanted Louisianans to give it some character (and crime). If I were going to that area (when H*ll freezes over), I'd certainly consider New Orleans itself over Houston.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Companies move their headquarters all the time though. See Boeing from Seattle to Chicago.

And sometimes they regret it as I think Boeing does. In the business world I think a lot of people are now blaming Boeing's troubles with the 737 MAX and now the 777 on the fact that the C-suite occupants are thousands of miles from the factory floors and separated from them on many levels.

Originally Posted by LA21st

Word is Boeing might be leaving Chicago.
Where? Who knows.
Dc?

If they leave, it's because they learned their lesson that separating the global business management from the engineering/design/production was a bad idea from the start so they'd likely undo that by moving the HQ back to Seattle or to South Carolina. There'd be no reason to just pick some third arbitrary city where they aren't building planes.

Boeing South Carolina is home to the company's second 787 Dreamliner final assembly and delivery facility. The site also fabricates, assembles and installs systems for aft (rear) fuselage sections of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner and joins and integrates midbody fuselage sections. Completed aft and midbody sections are delivered to final assembly in Everett, Wash., via Dreamlifter, or are moved across the campus to final assembly in North Charleston, S.C. Boeing South Carolina builds all three versions of the 787 -- the 787-8, 787-9, and the newest and longest member of the family, the 787-10.

In 2011, Boeing opened the first of three facilities at the 141-acre north campus, 10 miles (16 km) from Boeing South Carolina's main campus.

https://www.boeing.com/company/about...-facility.page

If the HQ moves, this is my guess where.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

If they leave, it's because they learned their lesson that separating the global business management from the engineering/design/production was a bad idea from the start so they'd likely undo that by moving the HQ back to Seattle or to South Carolina. There'd be no reason to just pick some third arbitrary city where they aren't building planes.

Yup. If the HQ is leaving Chicago then it is almost certainly returning to Seattle.

[Steely Dan]

i remember hearing rumblings back when boeing made the surprise HQ move to chicago that it was really about the CEO at the time going through a very messy divorce and wanting to get out of seattle for personal/social reasons.

sure, they couched it in all kinds of talk about better "global connectivity" and what not, but it always was a vey peculiar move on the surface of it. i don't think the chicago HQ has ever employed more than about 500 people. it really is just a C-suite plus staff outpost.

i won't be surprised at all if the HQ does go back to seattle to be closer to the actual meat of the company, especially after all the troubles they've had with engineering & design in recent years.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

I saw nothing anywhere near as artificial and chain-dominated on the River Walk as at Fisherman's Wharf or Pier 39 and the River Walk is unique in its experience whereas FW et al are pretty much duplicated in every beach town. Everything I saw seemed either local/unique or attached to a hotel which may have been a chain hotel as most are. It's the below-grade, lush (in a dry climate), cool (relatively speaking) vibe that makes it attractive. Not the specific businesses although I enjoy outdoor dining in a pleasant city-center-but-separated-from-the-city milieu. Also I find it quite pretty at night.

I think once again, your unwarranted elitism and disdain for those you don't consider to have your sophisticated tastes is showing.

I’ve been (my wife is from south Texas), I’ve walked around, I didn’t find anywhere appealing to eat, and “cool” is not how I would have described it. But to each their own, and you and I are not much alike (and the generational gap). I wasn’t joking about Bubba Gump - there’s actually one there, along with the rest of those sort of places.

It’s a nice idea and good for that city, but it’s not like it’s a notable destination nationally let alone internationally.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Stuck in San Antonio doing training at the military bases in the region, I found plenty to do in San Antonio. Houston to this outsider just seems a big hot sweaty garden variety American city with maybe enough transplanted Louisianans to give it some character (and crime). If I were going to that area (when H*ll freezes over), I'd certainly consider New Orleans itself over Houston.

Houston is bland on the surface but a lot to do with a lot of culture but you have to look for it. San Antonio is a great city with a better image but found it doesn't come close to Houston to the amount of amenities but it's also a much smaller metro.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by 10023

I’ve been (my wife is from south Texas), I’ve walked around, I didn’t find anywhere appealing to eat, and “cool” is not how I would have described it. But to each their own, and you and I are not much alike (and the generational gap). I wasn’t joking about Bubba Gump - there’s actually one there, along with the rest of those sort of places.

It’s a nice idea and good for that city, but it’s not like it’s a notable destination nationally let alone internationally.

My sister has lived in San Antonio since the mid 80s. She generally speaks of the River Walk in scornful tones, while displaying pride and the desire to share when speaking of most other parts of the city.