CHICAGO | Economic & Business Development

[emathias]

How has New York captured so many jobs? Even given New York's scale, that seems huge. And Detroit, too. Where are they putting those people? Over 100,000 professional-class jobs - that seems like it would have required doubling Detroit's downtown to accommodate, if they were all downtown.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by emathias

How has New York captured so many jobs? Even given New York's scale, that seems huge. And Detroit, too. Where are they putting those people? Over 100,000 professional-class jobs - that seems like it would have required doubling Detroit's downtown to accommodate, if they were all downtown.

It's metro area, not just the city. Detroit surprised me. NYC, given that I live here and do this type of work, does not surprise me at all. Though that's a huge number I'll admit. I expected maybe half of that.

[LouisVanDerWright]

It shouldn't surprise anyone that Detroit would gain tens of thousands of computer, math, and engineering jobs since the early part of this decade when Chrysler and GM both almost kicked the bucket in 2008/2009...

The auto industry laid off over 200,000 workers in the recession. The past decade has also included one of the longest and most epic automobile industry booms in US history. Given those facts it seems totally logical to me that Detroit would have seen a huge hiring boom in these fields.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

It shouldn't surprise anyone that Detroit would gain tens of thousands of computer, math, and engineering jobs since the early part of this decade when Chrysler and GM both almost kicked the bucket in 2008/2009...

The auto industry laid off over 200,000 workers in the recession. The past decade has also included one of the longest and most epic automobile industry booms in US history. Given those facts it seems totally logical to me that Detroit would have seen a huge hiring boom in these fields.

This definitely explains Detroit. Ford struggled too. I imagine if you look at the job loss during the Great Recession it would be staggering.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

It shouldn't surprise anyone that Detroit would gain tens of thousands of computer, math, and engineering jobs since the early part of this decade when Chrysler and GM both almost kicked the bucket in 2008/2009...

The auto industry laid off over 200,000 workers in the recession. The past decade has also included one of the longest and most epic automobile industry booms in US history. Given those facts it seems totally logical to me that Detroit would have seen a huge hiring boom in these fields.

True, but personally I'm not so surprised by the engineering jobs there. I'm more surprised that the computer and math related jobs specifically went up so much. I expected a good increase but not like that.

Very positive for the Detroit area.

[marothisu]

I was looking over some of the numbers again and there might be a few areas that are high due to error. The 2013 format of data is different than 2018 and slightly more confusing. I think most numbers are right but some were compared against a Metropolitan Division, not the entire MSA.

I realize too that comparing beginning in 2010 is a little more pertinent everywhere too. Recession technically over by then (but places still recovering) and also computing wise it's around the time when iPhone, Android, etc app stores really start to take off.

So to be more fair...

2010-2018 Change in Computer, Mathematics, Architecture, and Engineering Related Jobs, by MSA:
In the case of Chicago, it's basically the same as the gain that Seattle MSA and Dallas MSA had and not far behind LA and Atlanta.

1. New York City MSA: +75,690 jobs
2. San Francisco MSA: +73,140 jobs
3. San Jose MSA: +59,150 jobs
4. Atlanta MSA: +50,910 jobs
5. Los Angeles MSA: +49,730 jobs
6. Dallas MSA: +48,790 jobs
7. Seattle MSA: +48,150 jobs
8. Chicago MSA: +47,820 jobs
9. Detroit MSA: +46,360 jobs
10. Phoenix MSA: +32,060 jobs
11. Denver MSA: +30,010 jobs
12. Portland MSA: +27,700 jobs
13. San Diego MSA: +25,290 jobs
14. Austin MSA: +25,130 jobs
15. Philadelphia MSA: +25,000 jobs
16. Minneapolis MSA: +23,360 jobs
17. Baltimore MSA: +22,290 jobs
18. Houston MSA: +19,680 jobs
19. Washington DC MSA: +19,570 jobs
20. Boston MSA: +18,150 jobs
21. Kansas City MSA: +16,640 jobs
22. Nashville MSA: +14,660 jobs
23. Tampa MSA: +14,170 jobs
24. Orlando MSA: +13,930 jobs
25. Pittsburgh MSA: +13,900 jobs
26. Miami MSA: +13,170 jobs
27. Salt Lake City MSA: +11,850 jobs
28. Indianapolis MSA: +11,700 jobs
29. Cincinnati MSA: +11,530 jobs
30. Columbus, OH MSA: +11,390 jobs
31. Cleveland MSA: +9620 jobs
32. Louisville MSA: +8430 jobs
33. San Antonio MSA: +8260 jobs
34. Oklahoma City MSA: +7510 jobs
35. Riverside, CA MSA: +6370 jobs
36. St. Louis MSA: +6310 jobs
37. Milwaukee MSA: +5960 jobs
38. Sacramento MSA: +5360 jobs
39. Las Vegas MSA: +5120 jobs
40. Rochester, NY MSA: +4100 jobs
41. Jacksonville MSA: +3710 jobs
42. Buffalo, NY MSA: +3650 jobs
43. Birmingham, AL MSA: +3020 jobs
44. Tucson, AZ MSA: +1470 jobs
45. Memphis MSA: +1050 jobs
46. New Orleans MSA: +300 jobs

2010-2018 Change in Computer and Mathematics Related Jobs, by MSA:
1. New York City MSA: +66,420 jobs
2. San Francisco MSA: +61,550 jobs
3. San Jose MSA: +56,570 jobs
4. Seattle MSA: +49,780 jobs
5. Dallas MSA: +46,030 jobs
6. Atlanta MSA: +44,920 jobs
7. Los Angeles MSA: +43,570 jobs
8. Chicago MSA: +42,180 jobs
9. Phoenix MSA: +30,480 jobs
10T. Detroit MSA: +23,500 jobs
10T. Washington DC MSA: +23,500 jobs
12. Denver MSA: +22,730 jobs
13. Philadelphia MSA: +20,720 jobs
14. Baltimore MSA: +20,140 jobs
15. Houston MSA: +19,190 jobs
16. Austin MSA: +18,250 jobs
17. Portland MSA: +15,560 jobs
18. San Diego MSA: +15,130 jobs
19. Minneapolis MSA: +15,110 jobs
20. Tampa MSA: +14,230 jobs
21. Boston MSA: +13,940 jobs
22. Kansas City MSA: +13,880 jobs
23. Pittsburgh MSA: +12,850 jobs
24. Orlando MSA: +11,200 jobs
25. Nashville MSA: +11,140 jobs
26. Miami MSA: +11,030 jobs
27. Indianapolis MSA: +10,230 jobs
28. Salt Lake City MSA: +9780 jobs
29. Cleveland MSA: +9340 jobs
30. Cincinnati MSA: +7200 jobs
31. Columbus, OH MSA: +6210 jobs
32. San Antonio MSA: +6090 jobs
33. Louisville MSA: +5880 jobs
34. Oklahoma City MSA: +5370 jobs
35. Las Vegas MSA: +5270 jobs
36. St. Louis MSA: +5210 jobs
37. Rochester, NY MSA: +4120 jobs
38. Milwaukee MSA: +3900 jobs
39. Sacramento MSA: +3850 jobs
40. Jacksonville MSA: +3340 jobs
41. Buffalo, NY MSA: +3180 jobs
42. Riverside, CA MSA: +2630 jobs
43. Tucson, AZ MSA: +1930 jobs
44. Birmingham, AL MSA: +1810 jobs
45. New Orleans MSA: +1570 jobs
46. Memphis MSA: +810 jobs

[spoonman]

Originally Posted by marothisu

And here's the top for just Compuer and Math related occupations between 2013 and 2018:

1. NYC MSA: +242,740 jobs
2. SF MSA: +77,610 jobs
3. LA MSA: +74,870 jobs
4. Detroit MSA: +50,110 jobs
5. Dallas MSA: +48,920 jobs
6. San Jose MSA: +43,600 jobs
7. DC MSA: +43,140 jobs
8. Miami MSA: +39,080 jobs
9. Philadelphia MSA: +36,750 jobs
10. Boston MSA: +36,280 jobs
11. Atlanta MSA: +30,600 jobs
12. Chicago MSA: +30,290 jobs
13. Seattle MSA: +23,570 jobs
14. Denver MSA: +18,740 jobs
15. Phoenix MSA: +15,870 jobs
16. Minneapolis MSA: +12,880 jobs
17. Austin MSA: +11,090 jobs
18. Kansas City MSA: +10,020 jobs
19. Baltimore MSA: +9470 jobs
20. Tampa MSA: +9440 jobs
21. Orlando MSA: +9160 jobs
22. Portland MSA: +8570 jobs
23. Salt Lake City MSA: +8450 jobs
24. San Diego MSA: +8060 jobs
25. Madison, WI: +7360 jobs

29. Houston MSA: +5310 jobs

San Diego is barely I'm the top 25. Even Salt Lake City gained more of these jobs and Madison, WI was barely behind San Diego. Seattle again not in the top 10.

SD's tech sector is more bio-sciences and aerospace than computers.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by spoonman

SD's tech sector is more bio-sciences and aerospace than computers.

These things are categorized by a person's actual job and their responsibilities NOT by what type of company they work for. I am a software engineer at a financial institution - my job classification is a software engineer, not under financial. It does not matter if they are working for an aerospace company.

Furthermore, even if everyone at the aerospace company was an aerospace engineer, then it wouldn't explain anything. There are 2670 Aerospace Engineers counting aerospace technicians in the San Diego MSA according to the BLS's OES from 2018. Now, it increased by 2130 jobs since 2010 but that wouldn't alone just catapult it into the top 10f or overall "innovation jobs." In 2018, Aerospace Engineers only made up 7% of the engineering occupations in the San Diego MSA. This is not done by industry.

Also, I can't see for every year the break down, but San Diego MSA actually lost 910 occupations under Life, Physical, and Social Science Occupations between 2010 and 2018. Some of this counts things like economists, but there's not a lot of those to begin with (only 150 in the San Diego MSA).

[rgolch]

Originally Posted by marothisu

These things are categorized by a person's actual job and their responsibilities NOT by what type of company they work for. I am a software engineer at a financial institution - my job classification is a software engineer, not under financial. It does not matter if they are working for an aerospace company.

Furthermore, even if everyone at the aerospace company was an aerospace engineer, then it wouldn't explain anything. There are 2670 Aerospace Engineers counting aerospace technicians in the San Diego MSA according to the BLS's OES from 2018. Now, it increased by 2130 jobs since 2010 but that wouldn't alone just catapult it into the top 10f or overall "innovation jobs." In 2018, Aerospace Engineers only made up 7% of the engineering occupations in the San Diego MSA. This is not done by industry.

Also, I can't see for every year the break down, but San Diego MSA actually lost 910 occupations under Life, Physical, and Social Science Occupations between 2010 and 2018. Some of this counts things like economists, but there's not a lot of those to begin with (only 150 in the San Diego MSA).

Ok, I take responsibility for the discussion diversion, as I asked the initial question out of dumb curiosity. But let's back to specifically talking about Chicago economic thread stuff, before the mods ding us for getting off topic.

[marothisu]

GDP is out by metropolitan area and county this morning for 2018. For current dollars, the GDP of Chicago MSA is at $689,464,744 which is an increase of $29,609,703 from 2017 (in 2017 dollars).

In terms of chained dollars (2012 dollars), 2018 was at $611,591,128 which is an increase of $11,169,134 from 2017 (in terms of 2012 dollars).

Here's some select MSAs and their changes from 2017 to 2018 in current dollar GDP (not chained):

1. NYC MSA: +$74,197,526
2. Los Angeles MSA: +$52,546,871
3. San Francisco MSA: +$39,231,043
4. San Jose MSA: +$32,158,347
5. Houston MSA: +$31,257,373
6. Seattle MSA: +$31,096,753
7. Dallas MSA: +$30,291,473
8. Chicago MSA: +$29,609,703
9. Washington DC MSA: +$25,130,450
10. Boston MSA: +$24,426,190
11. Philadelphia MSA: +$21,608,919
12. Miami MSA: +$17,298,024
13. Atlanta MSA: +$17,037,171
14. San Diego MSA: +$14,349,378
15. Austin MSA: +$10,238,232
16. Detroit MSA: +$10,206,170
17. Riverside, CA MSA: +$10,047,456
18. Baltimore MSA: +$9,538,243
19. San Antonio MSA: +$8,819,607

Percentage wise, Chicago MSA increased by 4.5%, which was a little higher than the NYC metro area. It was also dead even with the Atlanta MSA and about 0.4% lower than DC. It was 0.8% lower than the LA area. In terms of overall change, it is fairly close to the changes that the Dallas, Houston, and Seattle areas had.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by marothisu

GDP is out by metropolitan area and county this morning for 2018. For current dollars, the GDP of Chicago MSA is at $689,464,744 which is an increase of $29,609,703 from 2017 (in 2017 dollars).

In terms of chained dollars (2012 dollars), 2018 was at $611,591,128 which is an increase of $11,169,134 from 2017 (in terms of 2012 dollars).

Here's some select MSAs and their changes from 2017 to 2018 in current dollar GDP (not chained):

1. NYC MSA: +$74,197,526
2. Los Angeles MSA: +$52,546,871
3. San Francisco MSA: +$39,231,043
4. San Jose MSA: +$32,158,347
5. Houston MSA: +$31,257,373
6. Seattle MSA: +$31,096,753
7. Dallas MSA: +$30,291,473
8. Chicago MSA: +$29,609,703
9. Washington DC MSA: +$25,130,450
10. Boston MSA: +$24,426,190
11. Philadelphia MSA: +$21,608,919
12. Miami MSA: +$17,298,024
13. Atlanta MSA: +$17,037,171
14. San Diego MSA: +$14,349,378
15. Austin MSA: +$10,238,232
16. Detroit MSA: +$10,206,170
17. Riverside, CA MSA: +$10,047,456
18. Baltimore MSA: +$9,538,243
19. San Antonio MSA: +$8,819,607

Percentage wise, Chicago MSA increased by 4.5%, which was a little higher than the NYC metro area. It was also dead even with the Atlanta MSA and about 0.4% lower than DC. It was 0.8% lower than the LA area. In terms of overall change, it is fairly close to the changes that the Dallas, Houston, and Seattle areas had.

Thanks, so Chicago is doing as well as most large metro areas. Makes sense as on the ground it feels like things are humming along nicely.

[Halsted & Villagio]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Thanks, so Chicago is doing as well as most large metro areas. Makes sense as on the ground it feels like things are humming along nicely.

Marothisu is a wealth of knowledge and is a true asset to the Chicago board. With that said, with all the midling Chicago statistics Marothisu has been throwing out there of late (not his fault mind you) it is good to step back and remind ourselves of where we stand on the WORLD stage:

We are NOT midling.... we are top 3 in the US in the World Alfa Cities Index:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global...search_Network

As for the US cities listed: New York is Alfa++ with Chicago and L.A. tied as other only other Alfa cities in the US. Of the remaining US cities, 3 are Alfa-minor with rest Beta, Gamma, High Sufficiency, Sufficiency cities. Again, the only US cities that are Alfa and above are New York, Chicago and L.A.

So although we definitely have ground to make-up as far as gdp, math and the tech world, as far as the world at large.... this is still CHICAGO.

[rgolch]

^^^ I'm always down for some Chicago boosting, but those sort of rankings I think are mostly BS. What the heck does that even mean....

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Thanks, so Chicago is doing as well as most large metro areas. Makes sense as on the ground it feels like things are humming along nicely.

It's interesting that the GDP is growing so fast when the population is not. That's probably consistent with many people leaving being either working class or retirees though.

[marothisu]

These city rankings if nothing else show that Chicago is still very highly regarded internationally as far as economics, arts, education, etc go. As I've said many times before, especially after leaving the city it saddens me how much people give the city crap who live in it and think it's not worth a shit anymore.

The fact is that it has one of the lowest unemployment rates ever currently in the city while the number of employed persons is basically the same as it was in 2000, when the city had 200,000 more people total living in it.

The GDP in the metro area continues to go up at about the same amount as Dallas, which is an economically booming metro area. The rate of change of the GDP from 2017 to 2018 was a little higher than NYC and barely lower than Los Angeles - both which still have booming economies.

People are very quick to write off Chicago - obviously it has a lot of warts currently - but things are still chugging along. It's a shame not many people recognize the good that is going on right now.

[marothisu]

Here are some of the industries GDP change in the Chicago MSA between 2010 and 2018 in current dollars. Some industries cannot be calculated because numbers some years are redacted due to confidentiality. The information industry is one such industry in the Chicago area like that.

1. Finance and insurance: +$21,925,678
2. Real Estate and rental and leasing: +$21,344,598
3. Professional, scientific, and technical services: +$19,736,231
4. Construction: +$9,808,976
5. Administrative and support and waste management and remediation services: +$8,294,842
6. Retail Trade: +$6,358,437
7. Management of companies and enterprises: +$1,781,164
8. Utilities: +$768,174
9. Mining, quarrying, and oil and gas extraction: +$148,224
10. Agriculture, forestry, fishing and hunting: -$56,577

[BrinChi]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Here are some of the industries GDP change in the Chicago MSA between 2010 and 2018 in current dollars. Some industries cannot be calculated because numbers some years are redacted due to confidentiality. The information industry is one such industry in the Chicago area like that.

1. Finance and insurance: +$21,925,678
2. Real Estate and rental and leasing: +$21,344,598
3. Professional, scientific, and technical services: +$19,736,231
4. Construction: +$9,808,976
5. Administrative and support and waste management and remediation services: +$8,294,842
6. Retail Trade: +$6,358,437
7. Management of companies and enterprises: +$1,781,164
8. Utilities: +$768,174
9. Mining, quarrying, and oil and gas extraction: +$148,224
10. Agriculture, forestry, fishing and hunting: -$56,577

Hmm are these numbers missing a few 0s? I sure hope so!

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by BrinChi

Hmm are these numbers missing a few 0s? I sure hope so!

Yes. I forgot to mention it's in thousands of dollars. So many of these are in the billions.

[marothisu]

Boston software company purchased a company in Chicago and is now expanding most likely:

Former AMA building close to lease with restaurant software firm

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/john...-software-firm

A fast-growing restaurant-software company is about to take two floors of office space in River North.

Toast, which acquired Chicago-based StratEx in July, is expected to finalize a lease soon for about 50,000 square feet at 515 N. State St., the former home of the American Medical Association, according to sources familiar with its plans. The company plans to lease two floors, with an option for a third.

Boston-based Toast is a fast-growing maker of point-of-sale software on tablet devices used by restaurants. StratEx, which makes human-resources and payroll software used by restaurants, has grown from about 160 employees to more than 200 since the acquisition and plans to double in the next 18 months. The company’s tech staff is growing even faster.

[BrinChi]

https://www.chicagotribune.com/colum...zxi-story.html

After years of luring corporate headquarters downtown, altering the city’s skyline and transforming once-fringe neighborhoods, some of Chicago’s best-known developers are taking a new approach for 2020 and beyond.

They’re lining up real estate investments in other cities.

A decade into a Chicago construction boom, some major players known for focusing heavily on their hometown are shopping for land to develop in places including Denver, Los Angeles, Miami, Nashville, Austin, Atlanta and Dallas.

Chicago-based firms, including Vista Tower’s Magellan Development Group and Lincoln Yards’ Sterling Bay, have determined that property tax increases and other factors make it difficult to finance new projects locally.

“We love Chicago but are super nervous about the headwinds Chicago faces,” said Magellan CEO David Carlins, whose firm’s Vista Tower condominium and hotel project with China’s Dalian Wanda Group will become Chicago’s third-tallest skyscraper when it opens in the fall.

“I would call it as difficult an environment from a capital standpoint as I’ve ever seen,” Carlins said. “In the recession, it was impossible for anyone to find money. Now there’s money, but there are other markets those investors are interested in.”

...