Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Enemy4thePeople]

Thanks, Atlas. I was wondering if they were preserving Plum Alley or not.

[wrendog]

Originally Posted by Comrade

I would wager the reason Ryan Smith met with the NHL was for this:

https://kslsports.com/500197/la-king...ry-since-2018/

I'm certain is was more than just that

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by wrendog

I'm certain is was more than just that

Certain?

You're certain it was more than that? Well do tell since it sounds like you have some knowledge (like I'm being serious ... I wouldn't expect someone to say they're certain if they didn't know something). So, what have you heard?

The reason I don't know if it's more is pretty simple: the NHL isn't looking to expand and no way is the commissioner going to get involved in discussions of team relocation, especially speculative discussion. That is just too risky of a narrative for any league to get wrapped up in (look at how much David Stern came under fire for the Sonics relocation).

So, I'd like to hear why you're certain it's more than that if you don't mind.

[mattreedah]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Certain?

You're certain it was more than that? Well do tell since it sounds like you have some knowledge (like I'm being serious ... I wouldn't expect someone to say they're certain if they didn't know something). So, what have you heard?

The reason I don't know if it's more is pretty simple: the NHL isn't looking to expand and no way is the commissioner going to get involved in discussions of team relocation, especially speculative discussion. That is just too risky of a narrative for any league to get wrapped up in (look at how much David Stern came under fire for the Sonics relocation).

So, I'd like to hear why you're certain it's more than that if you don't mind.

This quote was in the article:

Reportedly, the NHL is all ears in regards to Ryan Smith joining ownership ranks.

“That night, according to multiple sources, Bettman had dinner with Ryan Smith, owner of the Utah Jazz,” Friedman wrote. “This is one to watch. When Fenway bought the Penguins, Smith was rumored as another potential purchaser. Obviously, that didn’t happen, but I was told to keep his name on my radar, because he’s interested in the NHL — and the NHL is very interested in him.”

I think the story is that the NHL and Ryan are getting comfortable with each other. It probably won’t happen for a number of years though. Ryan recently went on 1280 and talked about the need for an NHL\NBA arena if hockey were to come to this market. I’d wager a new NBA/NHL arena gets built in preparation for the 2034 Olympics given they’d want to do ice sports in a built for it arena and the delta center would be long in the tooth at that time. I don’t think it’s nuts to think an NHL team comes in when that gets built.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by mattreedah

This quote was in the article:

Reportedly, the NHL is all ears in regards to Ryan Smith joining ownership ranks.

“That night, according to multiple sources, Bettman had dinner with Ryan Smith, owner of the Utah Jazz,” Friedman wrote. “This is one to watch. When Fenway bought the Penguins, Smith was rumored as another potential purchaser. Obviously, that didn’t happen, but I was told to keep his name on my radar, because he’s interested in the NHL — and the NHL is very interested in him.”

I think the story is that the NHL and Ryan are getting comfortable with each other. It probably won’t happen for a number of years though. Ryan recently went on 1280 and talked about the need for an NHL\NBA arena if hockey were to come to this market. I’d wager a new NBA/NHL arena gets built in preparation for the 2034 Olympics given they’d want to do ice sports in a built for it arena and the delta center would be long in the tooth at that time. I don’t think it’s nuts to think an NHL team comes in when that gets built.

It has to look up what that meant. Whatever happens, I sure hope that he doesn't build the arena outside of the downtown area. Certainly not at The Point of the Mountain development, etc.

[wrendog]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Certain?

You're certain it was more than that? Well do tell since it sounds like you have some knowledge (like I'm being serious ... I wouldn't expect someone to say they're certain if they didn't know something). So, what have you heard?

The reason I don't know if it's more is pretty simple: the NHL isn't looking to expand and no way is the commissioner going to get involved in discussions of team relocation, especially speculative discussion. That is just too risky of a narrative for any league to get wrapped up in (look at how much David Stern came under fire for the Sonics relocation).

So, I'd like to hear why you're certain it's more than that if you don't mind.

Yes. I'm sure the frozen fury was discussed, but we know Ryan Smith is interested in NHL, so meeting with the commissioner certainly (yes certainly) means more than just a simple preseason game discussion

Do I think an NHL team is imminent? Of course not, but we know they are talking

[delts145]

Great Post Reeder. I like what I'm reading. Long overdue.

Originally Posted by Reeder113

Why downtown Salt Lake City could soon be getting even taller

"As the old adage goes: If you can't build horizontally, build vertically."
https://www.ksl.com/article/50614820...g-even-taller-




This map shows the seven affected zones that would be changed under a proposed ordinance change. (Photo: Salt Lake City Corporation):

[zurich]

Originally Posted by delts145

Great Post Reeder. I like what I'm reading. Long overdue.

IMO, the most important part of that article was potentially removing the maximum height restriction in D-1 on corner lots. Sounds like a developer could now potentially build an 800ft tall building with approval.

[Atlas]

With design review, there is already no height restriction on D-1 parcels. This just makes the requirement for design review 200ft on all D-1 parcels instead of 375ft on corners and 100ft for midblock. Something like 255 S State would not have needed a design review under the new code but Astra still would have.

The raised height limits in D-3, G-MU, CG, etc are the real positives here, imo.

[Comrade]

The reason I asked is because the framing of their meeting was tied to some pretty heavy speculation about the NHL coming to Salt Lake.

Now, knowing that a preseason game was just announced, I'm inclined to think that was probably more a focus of their meeting than anything else. Even reading the part Matt added kinda leads me to believe this, as much of anything substantive was added by the writer.

I don't doubt Bettman and Smith talk. But as I said in my initial post, Salt Lake isn't getting a NHL team through expansion because the league isn't likely to expand for a good amount of time (probably 10 or so years at the earliest). They just went through an expansion with Las Vegas and Seattle.

So, that leaves relocation and I do not believe Bettman would involve himself in that at this stage.

So, I guess my point is that it feels like the media kind of made something out of nothing with how it's been framed.

[bob rulz]

I do certainly think that Ryan Smith wants a team and that Salt Lake City is on the radar. But I agree we are 10+ years from expansion, and there are several other candidate cities that would want an NHL team if a team were to relocate. But I'm sure SLC is at least on the radar, which means nothing more than that at this stage.

I still don't really understand why you guys are so thirsty for another professional sports team. I'm not anti-sports by any means. I'm a huge Jazz fan and casually follow college sports, the NFL, and the NHL to an extent (I don't care for baseball but do like going to the occassional Bees game). I love the Olympics and wholeheartedly support the Olympics coming to Salt Lake in 2034. But I'm honestly pretty ambivalent about us getting another pro sports team, and certainly don't have faith in our legislature not to meddle in it and subsidize a billionaire to make an arena/stadium a shiny new setpiece for the PotM development (or something else that would screw over downtown Salt Lake).

[Rileybo]

Bingo, Bob.

[Reeder113]

Astra Tower 4/6/2023. Photos from all angles.

Credit for the pictures goes to u/taboubak
https://www.reddit.com/r/Development...om_all_angles/

[Reeder113]

Worthington Photo Update 4/6/2023.

Credit for the pictures goes to u/taboubak
https://www.reddit.com/r/Development...d_to_get_some/

[taboubak]

Thanks for posting those here Reeder. I was too lazy to do it myself haha.

[Reeder113]

Originally Posted by taboubak

Thanks for posting those here Reeder. I was too lazy to do it myself haha.

Hey, you did all the work!

[Paniolo Man]

Got my bike fixed up weeks ago and have been dying for some decent weather to give it a spin, loaded it up on Frontrunner today and grabbed some photos.

I'll start by building on the nonstop Astra pile with some unique angles.





Here's the back of Big D. I don't know if it's been posted yet, but they are preparing for a large expansion.



Alta Stone, I believe.



Cinq





Luma



The Revival



Bookbinder Studios





Red Lion



Sloane Apartments



Slate



I don't know the names, 817 and 821 S 200 W.



Lusso



The Crossing at 9th

[delts145]

Always appreciate it when you post updates on these many mid-rise projects Paniolo Man. A BIG Thank You!

Photo Bump for those whose pages advance at 20-plus.

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

Got my bike fixed up weeks ago and have been dying for some decent weather to give it a spin, loaded it up on Frontrunner today and grabbed some photos.

I'll start by building on the nonstop Astra pile with some unique angles.





Here's the back of Big D. I don't know if it's been posted yet, but they are preparing for a large expansion.



Alta Stone, I believe.



Cinq





Luma



The Revival



Bookbinder Studios





Red Lion



Sloane Apartments



Slate



I don't know the names, 817 and 821 S 200 W.



Lusso



The Crossing at 9th

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by Blah_Amazing

I think the question is whether we are at the end of an actual cycle or not.

Currently, a lot of the evidence suggests that the economic boom cycle we've been in is not actually over, rather is simply being artificially suppressed by the Fed.

No disrespect but this market is over. 50% of commercial mortgages balloon in the next 2 years. Com values have ducked 20% in the last 6 months. We are headed into a storm that could be historic. Fed can't lower rates with inflation doing what it is. Com credit is freezing if not frozen.

https://www.morganstanley.com/pub/co...gic-weekly.pdf

[Blah_Amazing]

Originally Posted by Marvland

No disrespect but this market is over. 50% of commercial mortgages balloon in the next 2 years. Com values have ducked 20% in the last 6 months. We are headed into a storm that could be historic. Fed can't lower rates with inflation doing what it is. Com credit is freezing if not frozen.

https://www.morganstanley.com/pub/co...gic-weekly.pdf

Here is my full comment again:

Originally Posted by Blah_Amazing

I think the question is whether we are at the end of an actual cycle or not.

Currently, a lot of the evidence suggests that the economic boom cycle we've been in is not actually over, rather is simply being artificially suppressed by the Fed.

For example, home prices rose in February as mortgage rates declined a little bit, suggesting that demand hasn't gone anywhere.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/03/home...-declines.html

Instead, everything is basically just frozen until either the Fed relaxes rates or cracks appear, as they have with mortgage rates and people take advantage.

So for now, it looks like all it would take is for the Fed to determine the time is right to pull back on QT and rate hikes and the market would basically bounce right back to where it was.

However, that isn't to say that the Fed could turn what is a temporary freeze into an actual end of the cycle by keeping rates high for too long. So the future is still uncertain as to how things will shake out.

Personally, seeing home prices pick up, not just nationally, but also in my own neighborhood is giving me hope that there is just so much demand that it is going to start bubbling up eventually and (even with high interest rates) we are going to start to see movement again for some projects that haven't gotten started yet.

I think a lot of eyes are going to be on how well the several thousand housing units coming online this year in Salt Lake fill up and at what rental rates. If they fill up quickly it could very well offer the type of evidence for cautious lenders to provide needed investments. If they stall and fail to fill up showing weak demand I think we will see a sharp pullback in the coming years. Or it could be somewhere in the middle. Who knows?

Calling this the end of an economic cycle is premature to say the least, especially because the doom and gloom addicts have been predicting the end of the cycle every day for over a decade.

What it likely will be is an end to cheap credit. That doesn't mean an economic collapse. That doesn't mean even a recession. What it does mean is that it is now more expensive to build development projects. For some projects that depended on lots of debt and cheap interest rates, we are going to see them be put on hold or cancel. However, we are still seeing some projects advance. Unfortunately, the projects that do advance will likely pass on the additional costs to future renters. Meaning we can expect overall increases in apartment rents in the coming years.

I genuinely think nobody really knows what is going to happen. I personally think a serious collapse is very unlikely to happen at this point. If it was, I think it would have already manifested with all the pressure the Fed has placed on the economy. As I said in my original comment though..."who knows."