NEW YORK | Garden City Twin Supertalls | 2x1600-1700 FT+ ( VISION )

[NYguy]

Somehow, I don’t think I’m getting through, but I’ll try to be clearer.

1.
Thisn’t isn’t an actual proposal. It’s an idea put forth, not by any developer or government agency, but by an architect who presented some of these ideas before.

2.
He’s not presenting any designs that would actually get built, just concept images to go along with his plan.

There are no specific designs in either case. This is an alternative vision for the Empire Station complex, which itself is a serious state redevelopment that will overide all local and NIMBY opposition.

[Imaus]

Originally Posted by NYguy

Somehow, I don’t think I’m getting through, but I’ll try to be clearer.

1.
Thisn’t isn’t an actual proposal. It’s an idea put forth, not by any developer or government agency, but by an architect who presented some of these ideas before.

2.
He’s not presenting any designs that would actually get built, just concept images to go along with his plan.

There are no specific designs in either case. This is an alternative vision for the Empire Station complex, which itself is a serious state redevelopment that will overide all local and NIMBY opposition.

It's a beautiful idea. But I hope they hear the concerns that the last thing we need is more offices. The towers are beautiful - make them affordable housing towers. There could be what, thousands of studios in those things?

That's what NYC needs more of.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by Imaus

But I hope they hear the concerns that the last thing we need is more offices.

Because you've looked 10 years into the future and no without doubt that the office market and pre-pandemic work cuulture hasn't returned to pre-2020 normalcy? Sweet. Can you send me some Powerball numbers?

[Visionist]

The numbers probably wouldn't work out if you made them market rate housing, much less affordable.

It's nice to have bold ideas to break up the mental gridlock. Lots of discussion on this vision on the YIMBY page, including the usual ESB fetishists who propose a blanket 900' height limit, lmao.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Because you've looked 10 years into the future and no without doubt that the office market and pre-pandemic work cuulture hasn't returned to pre-2020 normalcy?

People always worry about office space. As if the heart of New York City, where all of the mass transit is, shouldn't be developed with dense office space. And they always say the same thing, they said it when the Hudson Yards was being planned, they said it when Midtown East was being rezoned. They'll continue to say it. But what I know is that a city so heavily dependent on it's commercial office space and density had damn well better plan for it where you can. Is that along Queens Boulevard? No. Along the Grand Concourse? No. Maybe Staten Island? No. How about the Village? Nope. Midtown Manhattan is where you would expect the commercial district, as limited as it is.

Originally Posted by Visionist

It's nice to have bold ideas to break up the mental gridlock. Lots of discussion on this vision on the YIMBY page, including the usual ESB fetishists who propose a blanket 900' height limit, lmao.

People always complain about the ESB, but they've already lost that argument. But this is just that, a vision. I feel the opportunity to open up a discussion regarding a new MSG needs to be centered on the current site, where there is no need to acquire more land. The master plan for whatever improvements they will make on the current Penn site hasn't come out yet, but Vornado was previously open to rebuilding 2 Penn Plaza. They could take that opportunity to rebuild MSG in the center of the site, just as envisioned here. The Knicks can play at Barclays, and the Rangers can play at the new Islanders arena while this is going on. Still a longshot, but certainly more likely than moving to another site, virtually creating another superblock in the middle of town.

[Busy Bee]

Well as long as we are going to do that I feel implored to reiterate my idea that a new MSG built alongside, under, over, whatever, a new PABT at the corner of 8th/42nd or blocks to the south and west is a possibility with huge potential that I feel like no one seems to see but me.

[rgarri4]

I know this isn’t the design, but regardless, this feels very imposing on the Empire State buildings territory.

[Sky88]

Great! Would it also be possible to have a view of the two towers seen from the WTC?

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Well as long as we are going to do that I feel implored to reiterate my idea that a new MSG built alongside, under, over, whatever, a new PABT at the corner of 8th/42nd or blocks to the south and west is a possibility with huge potential that I feel like no one seems to see but me.

Dolan certainly won't move MSG away from the mass transit of Penn Station, with it's massive rail connections to Long Island and New Jersey. They didn't even want to move to the 9th Avenue side of Farley. It is where it is, the superblock already exists. Make the best of it. Penn Station doesn't need a massive building covering the whole block, especially with the expansion south, and west to Moynihan. The Farley building was a great option, but they blew that chance. Even though an arena on 34th would be just as great, the creation of another superblock isn't something we should be looking for.



Here's a throwback....

[Busy Bee]

Does the elimination of one narrow east-west street really make a "superblock" in this case though?

[JMKeynes]

Yet another incredible project for the Greatest City in the World!

[mrnyc]

moving msg is one thing, thats an interesting wildcard vision, but whats with the twin superdupertalls?? lol where is the pony? we want a pony too! i mean thats not going to happen, especially given all the other redevelopment around penn.

[Busy Bee]

^ Am I the only one that's not following what you're saying here?

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

^ Am I the only one that's not following what you're saying here?

its not going to actually happen. dubious at best msg will move. no way twin supertowers. maybe one, but not two. its too much.

[NYguy]

This isn't a real proposal. But sites 2 and sites 7 & 8 could very easily produce 2 similar looking towers. None of the office buildings would be designed as depicted there because they are office buildings. But they could very well have similar looking designs with great height given the size those things will be. And even Manhattan West has a similar "twin" concept. Not unheard of.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Does the elimination of one narrow east-west street really make a "superblock" in this case though?

Yes. Absolutely yes.

[C.]

So... is this like a fantasy/vision proposal? This is not under consideration by an actual developer or government, right?

[Sky88]

Originally Posted by NYguy

This isn't a real proposal. But sites 2 and sites 7 & 8 could very easily produce 2 similar looking towers. None of the office buildings would be designed as depicted there because they are office buildings. But they could very well have similar looking designs with great height given the size those things will be. And even Manhattan West has a similar "twin" concept. Not unheard of.

Yes ... this was also my idea, to see two towers similar to these on site 2 or sites 7 and 8.

[Sky88]

Originally Posted by C.

So... is this like a fantasy/vision proposal? This is not under consideration by an actual developer or government, right?

Yes, is only a vision proposal.

[JSsocal]

Originally Posted by Sky88

Yes, is only a vision proposal.

Well no, CB5 voted to advance the concept and propose it to the other powers at be in the neighborhood, indicating it could get real consideration.

It is a vision only in that none of the images are of real buildings or designs.

Also don't be afraid of a superblock here. Getting the garden off of Penn is paramount.