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  #3561  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2008, 7:46 AM
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nomarandlee nomarandlee is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ That brings up an interesting question. Should transit follow people or should people follow transit?

For the most part, it looks more like the former has been true in Chicagoland (Metra "chasing" people as they move further and further out into the suburbs), but with the rising cost of constructing & expanding rail lines in America, I wonder how long this can be kept up.
Its hard to say but I think some Metra extensions are at risk of promoting sprawl rather then reigning it in. Maybe it is more of a personal psychological barrier but I just don't feel that catering to areas outside of the Elgin's, Aurora, and Joliet's of the system is a natural or preferable course for the system to take.

I would like to see a serious push to improving present lines and somehow advocating for density by whatever means rather then chasing thousands of people out into the boonies at a time.
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  #3562  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2008, 8:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Chicago Shawn View Post
"There is a real need to find more ways to get people in the south suburbs and southwest suburbs on public transportation into the city," Lipinski said. "Down the line, the question should be where do we go from Ford City."


I think we should push Lipinski to see if we can lock in some olympic related funding to take this line out to Toyota Park. That huge lot just screems massive park n' ride and/or "very remote airport parking" outside of soccer season. The lot just sits there unused half the year. There is a ComEd ROW running between Ford City and Toyota Park, so an extension would require no additional property to purchase, just lay the tracks and an underpass below Cicero and Harlem.


Ford City also has a fairly dense residential complex right next to it, with one of Chicago's most remote high-rises: http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=...chicago-il-usa
I'm not normally a fan of park-n-rides, but it seems like extending to Toyota Park could actually be a good two-way scenario if used as a park-n-ride for weekday commuters or even some long-term airport parking, and giving easy access from the city to Toyota Park which could help the Fire, the Olympic events there and any other event in that area.
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  #3563  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2008, 10:15 PM
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How many events per year does Toyota Park host?

If it gets to the point where there are ~20,000 people going to events 100 times a year maybe it'd be worth it, but otherwise a simple shuttle bus service would more than suffice; and the trip from a 75th Street Ford City terminus would be much closer than the current Midway terminus.
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  #3564  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2008, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
How many events per year does Toyota Park host?

If it gets to the point where there are ~20,000 people going to events 100 times a year maybe it'd be worth it, but otherwise a simple shuttle bus service would more than suffice; and the trip from a 75th Street Ford City terminus would be much closer than the current Midway terminus.
25+ for fire games, add in national team games, concerts, we're looking at approximately 40 events a year which would could generate a guaranteed 20,000 people (fire games this year average around 18,000 and with a direct city connection would sell out pretty regularly). couple that with lesser attractions at the park (the soon to be womens soccer pro team, lacrosse team) and the eventual water park/entertainment district at that intersection I'd say there's a genuine market to be served in the near future for a limited investment.

Last edited by schwerve; Aug 19, 2008 at 1:30 AM.
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  #3565  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 3:03 AM
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But how many of those people are coming from downtown?
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  #3566  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 3:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
But how many of those people are coming from downtown?
well, for fire games a good portion are coming from downtown/north side but there's a significant population which used to go to see games at soldier field but now won't because it's too inaccessible. while there's a shuttle run by pace from midway, its an extra transfer, another $3, and 20 minutes; when you're coming from the north side that extra transfer and time just kills the willingness to make the trip. i have had so many people tell me that they'd go to more games at toyota park or would be willing to go period if it was just on the orange line. i know that i've stopped taking the orange line there because its just too much time when i can just spend another $7 on a chartered bus and save 30 minutes (and grab a couple of beers on the way).
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  #3567  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 3:49 AM
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Originally Posted by schwerve View Post
well, for fire games a good portion are coming from downtown/north side but there's a significant population which used to go to see games at soldier field but now won't because it's too inaccessible.
Ahh, like me... back around 2000-2001 I went to almost every home game, but I haven't been to a single one since they built the new park.

I'm still skeptical that there is enough trip density to justify an actual rail extension. It would be fine as a convenient intermediate stop that could foster TOD (e.g. Madison on the Pink Line or Damen on the Green Line) but as a terminus?

From a commuter population standpoint, the Ford City terminus would still serve many Bridgeview residents as a Park N Ride lot. And for the money it would cost to build an extension to Toyota Park you could substantially build an HOV lane / express bus system on I-55.

Never say never, but any extension out there would absolutely have to be accompanied by serious land use changes (e.g. Bridgeview planning/zoning for a new dense downtown activity node) to be justifiable for rail service.
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  #3568  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 4:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
Never say never, but any extension out there would absolutely have to be accompanied by serious land use changes (e.g. Bridgeview planning/zoning for a new dense downtown activity node) to be justifiable for rail service.
my understanding is that's what bridgeview is doing to the surrounding area. i'd agree that toyota park in-of-itself isn't large enough to justify an extension but over the next few years that area is targeted for increased retail and entertainment density and an extension in co-ordination with the existing project would facilitate the right type of development in the area.
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  #3569  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 4:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
Ahh, like me... back around 2000-2001 I went to almost every home game, but I haven't been to a single one since they built the new park.
Huh? I've never had a problem driving or walking there. What's the problem with Soldier Field's access?
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  #3570  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 4:05 AM
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Originally Posted by aaron38 View Post
Huh? I've never had a problem driving or walking there. What's the problem with Soldier Field's access?
not soldier field, toyota park.
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  #3571  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 4:13 PM
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TODAY! I can't go, but hopefully some of you can....

COMMUNITY MEETING:

Tuesday, August 19, 2008 at 6 pm

McCormick Place West, Room W190 (First Floor)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Hosted by Alderman Bob Fioretti and Alderman Pat Dowell, in conjunction
with the RTA, CTA, and Chicago Department of Planning and Development,
to discuss a feasability study on two potential new green line el
stops, one at 18th Street, and one at Cermak Rd.
The purpose of the meeting is to get feedback from the community on the
types of development and amenities they would like to see in and around
these new stations.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DETAILS:

WHEN:
Tuesday, August 19th, 6pm
WHERE:
McCormick Place West, Room W190 (First Floor)
**Complimentary Parking Available in Lot 'A'
WHY:

To discuss a feasibility study for two potential new
Green Line 'el' stops at 18th Street, and Cermak, and gather
community feedback onTransit-Friendly Development.

----
Note the irony of providing free parking at a event to discuss TOD. I hoping some of you can go and bring some intellegence to a room to be likley staked with NIMBYs. I can already hear the shreaking of PDNA.
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  #3572  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 4:49 PM
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^I've been thinking a stop at 16th would make more sense 'cause both the orange and green would be able to use it. Either way, these stops would provide much needed L access to the burgeoning near south side. I don't think I can make it to the meeting, but I'll see.
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  #3573  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 5:12 PM
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Conveniently on the same night as the Orange Line extension meeting out at Ford City.
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  #3574  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 5:56 PM
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^^ The CTA is seeking neighborhood feedback, and each meeting deals with transit improvements in a radically different part of the city. I'm sure the CTA isn't expecting somebody to try to attend both meetings.

I'm not sure about the Green Line meeting being a NIMBY fest. A stop at Cermak would decrease neighborhood traffic by allowing more access to McCormick Place, and reducing the through-traffic in the Prairie District. Plus, the Cermak corridor is still very lightly-populated compared to further north. The 18th Street stop may draw more anger, though.

Since Fioretti is apparently involved in this somehow, hopefully we can expect a meeting soon about the Morgan station in the West Loop (also in the 2nd Ward). Maybe the CTA will pursue Morgan if there is too much opposition to the 18th Street stop.
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  #3575  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 6:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post

I'm not sure about the Green Line meeting being a NIMBY fest. A stop at Cermak would decrease neighborhood traffic by allowing more access to McCormick Place, and reducing the through-traffic in the Prairie District. Plus, the Cermak corridor is still very lightly-populated compared to further north. The 18th Street stop may draw more anger, though.
Since when did common sense and PDNA coincide? I'm sure their biggest concern will be more anticipated development in the nearby area, development which should be required with this type of public investment. I would like to know how Bob "Greenest ward in the city" Firoretti will embrace new TOD plans around this station should it progress forward.
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  #3576  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 8:23 PM
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There's opposition to a CTA station at 18th? In God's name, why? Wouldn't that be a boon to everyone who lives there? A boon to their property values, a reduction of traffic? Who loses on that?
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  #3577  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 9:08 PM
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  #3578  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2008, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by aaron38 View Post
There's opposition to a CTA station at 18th? In God's name, why? Wouldn't that be a boon to everyone who lives there? A boon to their property values, a reduction of traffic? Who loses on that?
Well, the only argument I can see being used against the station would be a crime argument... since a Green Line station would provide a direct link between that part of the South Loop and dangerous neighborhoods further down the Green Line.
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  #3579  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 1:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Well, the only argument I can see being used against the station would be a crime argument... since a Green Line station would provide a direct link between that part of the South Loop and dangerous neighborhoods further down the Green Line.
Because everyone knows the CTA makes the best getaway vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aredec
^^ The CTA is seeking neighborhood feedback, and each meeting deals with transit improvements in a radically different part of the city. I'm sure the CTA isn't expecting somebody to try to attend both meetings.
Actually, I think it's just that the south loop meeting is a DPD/CDOT project since it's downtown, and not CTA-administered like the Alternative Analysis studies.
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  #3580  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 1:48 AM
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So did anybody go to the meeting? How were the NIMBY shitbags tonight, were they on good behavior?
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