How does your State's Flagship University Compare to Top Private Universities for Job

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ oh damn, shade city.

Generally good life advice: don't enroll in universities that incessantly advertise themselves on TV.

Which once again brings me to Southern New Hampshire U. Anybody know anything about it besides their commercials?

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by plinko

Chosen because I was poor and my dad living there got me in-state tuition. I wasn't willing to take on loans (a lesson for all the kiddies griping about loan forgiveness these days...I have little sympathy...)

The student loan ballgame is A LOT different (and has been for nearly 20 years) than when we were college kids. The amount of debt out there is staggering and it's going to begin seriously affecting our economy (meaning all of us) in the coming decades.

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Which once again brings me to Southern New Hampshire U. Anybody know anything about it besides their commercials?

I see them advertised on the TV quite a bit... along with Western Governors University.

[Crawford]

The cost of attending college has skyrocketed to absurdity. I've put $500/monthly away in a college fund since my kid's birth and it still won't fully cover undergrad tuition + fees.

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Which once again brings me to Southern New Hampshire U. Anybody know anything about it besides their commercials?

I don't know anything first hand, but your question made me curious. Wikipedia and Google tell me they are a nearly 100-year-old, regionally accredited private non-profit college, which though not really comparable to UoP or even GCU I described earlier, do have some similar characteristics, including being almost totally online (135,000 online enrollees v. 4000 in-person), a pretty poor graduation rate of 40% and being mostly funded by student aid.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southe...ire_University

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/snhu-...lege_n_4545871

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by pj3000

The student loan ballgame is A LOT different (and has been for nearly 20 years) than when we were college kids. The amount of debt out there is staggering and it's going to begin seriously affecting our economy (meaning all of us) in the coming decades.

Everything is more expensive. Cars today are roughly 10 times as pricey as when I finished school. I bought my first car (the first one I paid for, not my parents) for $3000 in 1971. Something similar today might be around $30,000.

Tuition was about $2600 as I recall. I'm not sure what it is today--just tuition, not room/board/etc--but I've heard figures in the range of $50,000 at top private schools, so the inflation factor is maybe twice what it has been for cars.

But at those same schools, financial aid is very generous--I suspect more so than in my day--and many of them claim they cover everything they determine the student's finances require (in their judgement, not his/hers).

Anyway, I blame a lot of competitive construction at schools: Much more elaborate athletic facilities and other amenities, much more luxurious housing, much better dorm food. And even the academics buildings are more expensive with computer facilities and so on that weren't dreamed of back then. Our lecture halls were just big rooms with tiered theater seating and in front a stage with a blackboard. Smaller classes were held in rooms, just rooms with windows that opened when it got super hot and steam heat in winter.

And then there's the proliferation of non-academic staff, many of whom are needed to ensure compliance with assorted government regulations, dole out financial aid and oversee admissions.

[plinko]

Originally Posted by pj3000

The student loan ballgame is A LOT different (and has been for nearly 20 years) than when we were college kids. The amount of debt out there is staggering and it's going to begin seriously affecting our economy (meaning all of us) in the coming decades.

Maybe. I got into some fancy private schools. I had no money. My parents had no money. Scholarships and student employment would have only covered about a year's worth. My dad and myself could have taken on loans for the rest. Of course. But I would likely STILL be paying them off 23 years later, like many people I know.

So I sacrificed and went to a shitty state school for 1/5 the cost and lived with my dad and didn't borrow a dime.

All this time later, do I regret that choice? Not one bit.

Education is hugely important of course, and the school you go to might help you land that first or second job, but over the long haul I have not found it particularly important in my field. Where you choose to live and how you integrate yourself into the local community (related to your profession) is far more important.

As to your other note regarding how the debt will affect the overall economy...I don't know. I feel like we need a bit of a reset with respect to some of that. There are far too many important jobs in this country that college kids don't want because it requires hard physical work and doesn't pay $75-100k right out of school. Maybe some of them need to spend some time being servers and farmers and mechanics for awhile? They might find they like it. Not everybody needs to be a doctor or an engineer. In fact, the economy is less stable if they are all trying to be.

Maybe I'm just getting to be more of an asshole as I get older?

[Buckeye Native 001]

I think we moved attention away from vocational training and stigmatized it. That's insanely privileged of me to say, seeing as how I have a bachelors and a masters but the State of Arizona requires a Bachelors Degree to be a probation officer when this job (and a lot of other civil servant positions) might be better realized as vocations. I enjoy what I do but I really don't think I (or most people interested in this line of work) need a bachelors degree to do it.

You can teach critical thinking and analysis at vocational schools just as easily as in a university setting.

Coincidentally, my county just voted to either continue or increase funding toward the community college system with an emphasis on and/or expectation that they'll expand their vocational offerings. Stuff like CDL, med tech, HVAC, nursing assistance, firefighting, etc that I don't think they currently offer but I would love to see become available.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

I think we moved attention away from vocational training and stigmatized it. That's insanely privileged of me to say, seeing as how I have a bachelors and a masters but the State of Arizona requires a Bachelors Degree to be a probation officer when this job (and a lot of other civil servant positions) might be better realized as vocations. I enjoy what I do but I really don't think I (or most people interested in this line of work) need a bachelors degree to do it.

You can teach critical thinking and analysis at vocational schools just as easily as in a university setting.

Coincidentally, my county just voted to either continue or increase funding toward the community college system with an emphasis on and/or expectation that they'll expand their vocational offerings. Stuff like CDL, med tech, HVAC, nursing assistance, firefighting, etc that I don't think they currently offer but I would love to see become available.

The German system of trade schools is unquestionably superior. There is absolutely no need for a degree in a lot of US jobs that require one and no value in a lot of the degrees US young people get. Employers seem to use a bachelors degree as a simple means of dividing the intelligence/motivated wheat from the chaff. They seem to think there's something wrong with any kid who can't get a degree in something--doesn't necessarily matter what.

A Brief Description of Germany’s VET System

Despite being a federal country like the U.S., in which individual states have autonomy over educational matters, Germany has established a fairly uniform and highly regulated VET system nationwide. There are a number of different training programs in place, including full-time school programs that do not include a practical training component, but most vocational sector students enroll in the dual system (Duale Berufsausbildung). This system straddles upper-secondary and post-secondary education: Students typically enter vocational school (Berufsschule) after they complete lower-secondary education (ninth or tenth grade) and continue in vocational programs lasting two to four years, depending on the specialization.

During their studies, trainees spend three to four days a week at a company to learn the practical foundations of their occupation. On the other one or two days, they study theoretical subjects in school. Alternatively, students may attend school in full-time blocks of up to eight weeks in what are colloquially called sandwich programs. Participating companies are obligated to provide training in accordance with national regulations and pay students a modest salary.

VET is regulated and funded by both the federal government and the German states and is closely coordinated with German industry. Employers and trade unions play an important role in decision-making processes and in the development of curricula and competency standards. School curricula may vary slightly between the different German states (Bundesländer), but the final graduation examinations are uniform throughout the country and lead to formal vocational qualifications.

In their classes, students learn job-specific as well as general education subjects (German, politics, religion, physical education, etc.). Programs usually conclude with examinations administered either by the government or by industry associations like regional Chambers of Commerce or Chambers of Crafts. Graduates earn a state-examined or state-recognized vocational title (staatlich anerkannte Berufsbezeichnung) or a journeyman certificate, all of which are official certifications recognized throughout Germany. In 2015, there were officially recognized vocational occupations, ranging from carpenter to industrial electrician, tax specialist, dental technician, film and video editor, and product designer.

https://wenr.wes.org/2018/06/could-g...el-for-the-u-s

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by plinko

There are far too many important jobs in this country that college kids don't want because it requires hard physical work and doesn't pay $75-100k right out of school. Maybe some of them need to spend some time being servers and farmers and mechanics for awhile? They might find they like it. Not everybody needs to be a doctor or an engineer. In fact, the economy is less stable if they are all trying to be.

Maybe I'm just getting to be more of an asshole as I get older?

An awful lot of degree holders seem to spend a few years as a barista.

But that said, my nephew wasn't very academic so he went to Alaska and got a job on a fishing boat in the Gulf of Alaska. Pays good money, he liked it and I'm proud of him for doing it. Next salmon you eat you may owe him a thank you.

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Do people really attempt to ingratiate themselves with employers by saying "Hey, we went to the same college?" I mean - do it successfully.

Yes, they do. And yes, it works.

Originally Posted by eschaton

It just boggles my mind that anyone would give a crap about that, unless you're talking about a very small employer that doesn't have a dedicated HR department to do that crap for them.

I cannot speak for other industries, but global marketing/communications and media/advertising companies absolutely have preferences in hiring new grads and for intro-level positions from known schools. Boston College, Northeastern, and Emerson are all great schools, but are decidedly on a lower tier than Columbia and UPenn. The later two are top schools in the country for basically any major, but the former three jump into the top 10 with them when WPP or Omnicom or Dentsu HR look to fill the annual new grad hire slots. Degrees from these schools in media management are known qualities. Knowing that you can plug a new grad into profit-generating work from nearly Day 1 in a knowledge-intensive and highly process-driven industry is super valuable.

It's the same in Japan; the university I graduated from is heavily represented among both general staff and upper management throughout the country's massive media advertising industry. And I have hired more new grads from my alma mater than any other school by a good amount.

Of course when hiring for mid-career and even those nebulous "at least three years of experience preferred" roles, where a candidate's degree is from and even what the degree is in no longer matters. Work history - especially successful work history - trumps everything else.

But if I'm in the decider's chair and the choice is between two otherwise identically qualified mid-career candidates with one having graduated from my alma mater . . . he/she gets the role.

(And as I final note, remember . . . HR managers have alma maters too )

[craigs]

Originally Posted by plinko

Lest you forget...I did too! Chosen because I was poor and my dad living there got me in-state tuition. I wasn't willing to take on loans (a lesson for all the kiddies griping about loan forgiveness these days...I have little sympathy...)

Oops--sorry Plinko! I was thinking about people I grew up with, but honestly, that's no excuse. The memory is the first thing to go . . . .

[JManc]

Stanford is probably represented in some circles but I was pleasantly surprised the tech world isn't overly saturated with prestigious universities or top level state schools; most of my co-workers (and I) went to ho-hum state schools or from out of the country (mostly India) where no one even heard of the town they're from.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by JManc

Stanford is probably represented in some circles but I was pleasantly surprised the tech world isn't overly saturated with prestigious universities or top level state schools; most of my co-workers (and I) went to ho-hum state schools or from out of the country (mostly India) where no one even heard of the town they're from.

Stanford isn't known for turning out great employees. It's known for turning out entrepreneurs.

But I don't think where you went to school matters much in any industry where there's more demand for talent than supply. Medicine is generally the same as tech. I may be the only person I know who looks at his doctor's "I love me" wall (as we call it) to see where his/her degree is from. It may also matter if you are going into academics, at the beginning (mid career and later publications and awards probably matter more) but not clinical medicine. And even I don't ask the nurse attending me in a hospital bed where she went to nursing school (quite often it would be some foreign place I know nothing about anyway).

[Shawn]

The German vocational model is fantastic. Trades should be promoted - celebrated, even - as viable, vital, and respectable.