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  #141  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 5:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Safety and schools are almost always better in the established suburbs as opposed to the McMansion suburbs. Schools are generally vastly better.

Cost is obviously lower on the fringe, but my confusion is why high-income people (i.e. people with options and not forced into location based on home price constraints) often choose a giant home in a cornfield. Makes little sense, to me, unless they only care about having as big a home as possible. I just don't understand how there's added utility beyond a certain size.

And I don't agree that these are the only factors. People consider proximity to employment, amenities, family & friends, municipal services, etc.
I didnt say they were the only reasons but they're definitely top reasons. distance from jobs is another although less so in the WFH world we're in now as people are more open to living further away if commuting 0-3 days a week. Not sure the exact reasons why real high income people buy land like that, but I'd bet it is for the same reason why people moved to the suburbs and that's safety and more space. It's why wealthy Philadelphians had a house in Philly and a country home on the Main Line for example. Some have hobbies they can't do in the city but can on their own land. Having a big house on a big yard is probably a huge flex for folks too on top of those things (hello Biltmore).

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Originally Posted by mhays View Post
Agreed...beyond a certain size space is a problem. You have to heat it and maybe cool it. It has to be vacuumed and kept in repair. And it would feel so empty. And that giant yard might take constant maintenance. I wouldn't want a house period (seeing the vast money and time friends and family put into theirs), but a big house sounds so much worse.
true but if a big part of your house is empty then it doesnt need to be cleaned as often (say if you have a guest living area vs someone living there full time).

and a giant yard doesnt have to be constant maintenance, but even maintaining it can be a form of relaxation. plus what if people have medium to large dogs? A big yard makes a lot of sense then. No amount of walking will mimic having a big yard for a dog, especially since dogs living with big yards can go for walks too.
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  #142  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 5:47 PM
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Steely Dan Steely Dan is offline
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
that's a fair point but who needs 4,000 SF?
i never said anything about needs.

but some people sure as hell want 4,000+ SF.

one of my cousins just moved back to chicagoland after living down in phoenix for 20 years. she and her husband are empty-nesters as their only child is now out of the house as a college student.

they ended up buying a giant 4 bedroom vinyl box on a big lot in one of those twisty-street cornfield subdivisions out in Sugar Grove, IL, within walking distance of absolutely nothing, and ~42 miles from the loop as the crow flies. they're so far out in bumblefuck, that even if they wanted to take a train to get down into the city, the nearest park n' ride metra stop is still a 14 minute drive from their house.


i don't get it.

and i suppose i never will.

but some people love that shit.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Jan 31, 2023 at 11:30 PM.
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  #143  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 5:56 PM
homebucket homebucket is online now
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Is it common for the suburbs out beyond the Rockies to not come with fences included?

https://goo.gl/maps/2gW4vt8GyPRnsEAK9
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  #144  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 6:16 PM
Buckeye Native 001 Buckeye Native 001 is offline
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Cinder block walls as fencing are the norm throughout the Southwest, especially on the fringes, but the critters and varmint still find their way in.

My parents never saw scorpions in their old house on the edge of the desert in Phoenix (Ahwatukee) until construction started on an extension of the 202 freeway in 2016-2017, displacing/upsetting some of the wildlife.
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  #145  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 6:16 PM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is offline
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Originally Posted by Trae View Post
a giant yard doesnt have to be constant maintenance,

Grass is easy. It's everything else.

In the city or first-ring suburb, you're usually dealing with many more mature trees than in the suburbs, so you're dealing with leaves all summer, not just in the fall, and have to spend a lot of time power washing several times per year to keep patios and wood privacy fences looking good.
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  #146  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 6:18 PM
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Originally Posted by homebucket View Post
Is it common for the suburbs out beyond the Rockies to not come with fences included?

https://goo.gl/maps/2gW4vt8GyPRnsEAK9
Yes, it's the norm.

TX has fences everywhere, I believe, but further east, fences are rare. Maybe FL is an exception?

In really high-end areas, stone walls are popular, but McMansion type suburbia almost never has fences in the Eastern U.S.
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  #147  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 6:33 PM
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Fences usually come with master planned neighborhoods with HOA (that require them) of which you see more in TX and the sunbelt (CA too) than back east hence less fences back there.
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  #148  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 6:51 PM
dave8721 dave8721 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Yes, it's the norm.

TX has fences everywhere, I believe, but further east, fences are rare. Maybe FL is an exception?

In really high-end areas, stone walls are popular, but McMansion type suburbia almost never has fences in the Eastern U.S.
In newly built suburbs, the fences are usually not included but owners end up putting them in. See here in a brand new subdivision, some have fences and some have not yet put theirs up.
https://www.google.com/maps/@25.4675.../data=!3m1!1e3

Miami-Dade bans chain link fences on the front of a residential property but you still see them for back yards. Fronts usually have no fence but high end mansions will have little hedge walls with gates.
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  #149  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 6:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post

In the city or first-ring suburb, you're usually dealing with many more mature trees than in the suburbs, so you're dealing with leaves all summer, not just in the fall, and have to spend a lot of time power washing several times per year to keep patios and wood privacy fences looking good.
huh?

several times per year?

we've lived in our 3 flat in the city for 5 years now, and we've never once power-washed the brick paver patio or the wood privacy fence, and they look fine.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Jan 31, 2023 at 7:18 PM.
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  #150  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 6:54 PM
dave8721 dave8721 is offline
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These kind of fences seem to be in vogue these days too: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.6958...7i16384!8i8192
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  #151  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 7:02 PM
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I bet you South Florida has more fences/walls in part due to Latin cultural norms. In most of Latin America, non-poor housing means fences/walls.

It's also interesting that in much of the western U.S., fences are often required in newer housing, while fences are often banned in equivalent housing in eastern U.S. For whatever reason, the regions have differing views on fences. Fences are often thought as low(er) class in the eastern U.S., and I assume lack of fencing is considered low(er) class in western U.S.?
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  #152  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 7:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I bet you South Florida has more fences/walls in part due to Latin cultural norms. In most of Latin America, non-poor housing means fences/walls.

It's also interesting that in much of the western U.S., fences are often required in newer housing, while fences are often banned in equivalent housing in eastern U.S. For whatever reason, the regions have differing views on fences. Fences are often thought as low(er) class in the eastern U.S., and I assume lack of fencing is considered low(er) class in western U.S.?
Interestingly, the average middle-class Brazilian loves American suburbs they see in the movies precisely due the absence of fences/walls, which is completely different from Brazilian vernacular.

And now they're (apparently) building fences in the US. Go figure.
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  #153  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 7:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I bet you South Florida has more fences/walls in part due to Latin cultural norms. In most of Latin America, non-poor housing means fences/walls.

It's also interesting that in much of the western U.S., fences are often required in newer housing, while fences are often banned in equivalent housing in eastern U.S. For whatever reason, the regions have differing views on fences. Fences are often thought as low(er) class in the eastern U.S., and I assume lack of fencing is considered low(er) class in western U.S.?
No they're not. Largely unnecessary for most people in the suburbs in the country that's all. Unless you have a pool...
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  #154  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 7:45 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
No they're not. Largely unnecessary for most people in the suburbs in the country that's all. Unless you have a pool...
My brother lives in a newer sub in Michigan, and all the new subs there have fence bans, as it's considered lower-class. It's probably bc fences are associated with older, working class areas, where you often have fences. Plus people are crazy about lawns, and kids are often running between yards.

It's great for the invisible fence industry, however. Pools obviously have required gates, though.
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  #155  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 7:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Yuri View Post
Interestingly, the average middle-class Brazilian loves American suburbs they see in the movies precisely due the absence of fences/walls, which is completely different from Brazilian vernacular.

And now they're (apparently) building fences in the US. Go figure.
It is funny that in Hollywood, American suburbia is often stereotyped with that Eastern All-American look, even if the film is set in California or Arizona or something. It's always the small-town Ohio or Vermont stereotype. Flags on porches, kids in varsity jackets, big lawns with oak trees, etc.
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  #156  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 8:04 PM
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^ John Hughes kind of defined generic american "suburbia" for an entire cohort of Gen-Xers with all of his '80s teen films set and shot in chicago's northern burbs (16 candles, weird science, breakfast club, ferris bueller's day off, etc.).
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  #157  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 8:07 PM
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Newer suburbs in the fringe and semi-rural areas don't have fences. The older, denser suburbs in New Jersey and Long Island mostly have fences.
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  #158  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 8:08 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
My brother lives in a newer sub in Michigan, and all the new subs there have fence bans, as it's considered lower-class. It's probably bc fences are associated with older, working class areas, where you often have fences. Plus people are crazy about lawns, and kids are often running between yards.

It's great for the invisible fence industry, however. Pools obviously have required gates, though.
Weird that they associate it with lower classes. Fences are common in some affluent areas of Metro Detroit. Maybe they just don't want the lots to look small? The houses seem to take up much more of the lots in the McMansion exurbs than in inner-rings.

To me those new McMansion subdivisions in exurban Detroit all look extremely tacky and scream new money. I don't really get why people think that looks less lower class than any of the other tract housing in Metro Detroit lol.
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  #159  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 8:10 PM
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I would've thought the propensity for fencing in Florida was because every house has a pool and no one wants a 6 foot long reptile as an uninvited guest.

The screened in pool seems to be a completely Florida phenomenon, which I always thought made sense for living in a giant swamp with alligators and mosquitoes the size of bats. Turns out one of their biggest selling points is for UV protection, which I found odd given that you don't really see them in places like San Diego or Phoenix. I guess in Florida though the day time heat is much more unrelenting, not easily cured by just moving into the shade. If you're going to be sitting in your pool for hours a day just to cool off I guess it makes sense.
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  #160  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 8:23 PM
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You could have a natural fence, some Poplar trees. Those always look nice depending on the house.

Just IMO, makes a house look way better and way more upscale with a stone fence/wall and some landscaping to complement it (with iron gate at the end of the driveway).

The issue is not so much the material but the labor. If you need like 2000 to 3000 s/ft of stone, in the range of 25-40k depending on the area but the labor kills the cost.

They do look nice but not cheap. It's why the price per foot is so much as they factor the labor.
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