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  #41  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 1:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat View Post
Looks like this got a permit:

ZP-2020-003181 Apr 8, 2021 232-36 WALNUT ST, Philadelphia, PA 19106-3943 CERONE MARIE F 1
For the erection of a New 184' tall, 15 Story Building with Ground Floor commercial, 90 visitor accommodation units on floors 2-14, and 15th floor assembly space. Sizes and dimensions per attached plans. Demo
The height erroneously shown above only occurs in the Eclipse Daily Zoning Report listing for April 8, apparently a system fluke causing data from the initial application last June to be carried forward when the permit was eventually issued April 8 of this year. Other listings of the same permit in Eclipse and Atlas make no mention of the height or number of stories, but do allude to a "GFA change" (Gross Floor Area).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
What the....???!!!

Is this real? The Society Hill Nimby's didn't block this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
I feel like I'm missing something here.

Wasn't this shut down by the Society Hill crew?
Yes, this would seem to be the thread for 222-230 Walnut St, but since someone also cited 232-236 Walnut — the corner hotel proposal — that one finally passed muster with the Historical Commission last October in its third design iteration, according to my notes in my facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Phil...87054471583188
The archived Zoom session of the October 9 meeting is now online, weighing in at just under 5 hours: https://dpd-public-meetings.s3.amazo...n_Oct92020.mp4

Agenda: https://www.phila.gov/media/20201008...20201009-1.pdf

The 232-36 Walnut St matter begins at the 24:45 mark. Recommendation of denial from the Architectural Committee notwithstanding, the Commission approved the latest (3rd) version of the hotel proposal by a vote of 8 to 3.
See also archived thread for 232 Walnut, which points future discussion of the now-downsized building to the Lowrise/General Developments Thread: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=243335
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Last edited by Jayfar; Apr 13, 2021 at 4:45 AM.
     
     
  #42  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 3:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayfar View Post
Yes, this would seem to be the thread for 222-230 Walnut St, but since someone also cited 232-236 Walnut — the corner hotel proposal — that one finally passed muster with the Historical Commission last October in its third design iteration, according to my notes in my facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Phil...87054471583188
The archived Zoom session of the October 9 meeting is now online, weighing in at just under 5 hours: https://dpd-public-meetings.s3.amazo...n_Oct92020.mp4

Agenda: https://www.phila.gov/media/20201008...20201009-1.pdf

The 232-36 Walnut St matter begins at the 24:45 mark. Recommendation of denial from the Architectural Committee notwithstanding, the Commission approved the latest (3rd) version of the hotel proposal by a vote of 8 to 3.
See also archived thread for 232 Walnut, which points future discussion of the now-downsized building to the Lowrise/General Developments Thread: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=243335
It looks like that thread should be unlocked, as this new iteration stands at 184', making it a highrise.
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  #43  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 3:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgrath618 View Post
It looks like that thread should be unlocked, as this new iteration stands at 184', making it a highrise.
That can't be correct. The Historical Commission ultimately approved in October a 100' 8-story revision.

Here's the October 2020 version as submitted to the PHC by the architect: https://www.phila.gov/media/20201002...ut-St-rev2.pdf

I think that's just funkiness of L&I's data systems. Per eclipse this is the permit applied for Jun 30, 2020, before the Historical Commission proceedings.
https://eclipse.phila.gov/phillylmsp...ctId=246825307
Zoning Permit ZP-2020-003181 (Issued)
Application Date: Jun 30, 2020
Issue Date: Apr 8, 2021

…but see also the attached (under street details tab):

https://eclipse.phila.gov/phillylmsp...ctId=310955371
RELATED INFORMATION
Type Description
Streets Review SR-2021-000423: Issued (Zoning Plan (L&I Permit Pre-Requisite))
(Rich Villa DBA: AMBIT ARCHITECTURE)

Building GFA (Square Feet): 58,845
Commercial Area (Square Feet): 58,845
Land Area (Square Feet): 9,154

Doing the math gives me 6.4 stories (but only if building filled the entire lot of course), so with the unused portion of the land that probably works out to about 8 stories (including the set back upper story).

Researching further, the mention of the 15-story, 184' height only occurs in the Eclipse Daily Zoning Report listing of the permit and is probably derived from the original application last June. That wording is not found in either of the atlas copies of the permit, nor in the search by address or by permit # version in Eclipse. Just a quirk of L&I's systems as I suspected. The version seen everywhere else alludes to a "GFA change."

Also, from Rich Villa's letter in the October submission to the Historical Commission, there is a tie to the 220a-30 Walnut St property:
"Please find the enclosed documents regarding the proposed new building 232-36 Walnut
Street (Southeast corner of 3rd and Walnut). The owner of the property is Marie F. Cerone at the
same address. The proposed project also includes the air rights to 220A-30 Walnut Street which
is owned by the same owners and is listed as premise “B” on the deed."
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Last edited by Jayfar; Apr 13, 2021 at 1:51 PM.
     
     
  #44  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 1:37 PM
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So this is the Ritz?
     
     
  #45  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 1:38 PM
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That was a rollercoaster. Thrilled that The Nelson Building is safe (for now) and that the mansion on the corner is being replaced with density. Unless I'm still confused, in which case I am furious that The Nelson Building is being gutted while the mansion on the corner is remaining.
     
     
  #46  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 1:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin7 View Post
That was a rollercoaster. Thrilled that The Nelson Building is safe (for now) and that the mansion on the corner is being replaced with density. Unless I'm still confused, in which case I am furious that The Nelson Building is being gutted while the mansion on the corner is remaining.
Haha. I have no idea what's happeneing on the 200 block of Walnut, right now.
     
     
  #47  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 1:59 PM
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So per my earlier comments, we reliably know the 3rd & Walnut SEC hotel at 232-36 Walnut is happening as an 8-story building (with the 8th floor set back considerably), as approved by the PHC last October.

As to the new zoning permit for 222-30 Walnut, that is a huge nothing-burger. It is a mere change of use, countering a previous unrealized change of use. As seen in the version listed in the Daily Zoning Report for April 1:

ZP-2021-003077 Apr 1, 2021 222-30 WALNUT ST, Philadelphia, PA 19106-3943 226 WALNUT LP 1
Owner proposes a Change of Use from Educational Facility and Libraries/Cultural Exhibit to Professional Offices. Abandoned previous approved educational facility and Libraries/Cultural Exhibit to previously approved business and professional offices.
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  #48  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 2:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
So this is the Ritz?
No, the Ritz is 214-20 WALNUT ST and there are no recent zoning nor construction permits for that address.
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  #49  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 3:43 PM
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I can't comprehend what's going on here. If it's 222 Walnut, that's superb!

If it's 232 Walnut, and the building has been upsized back to 15 floors, we'll reopen the closed thread. I'm pretty sure it is 8 floors though, so in that case, any updates on it will remain in the Lowrise/General Development Thread.
     
     
  #50  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 4:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
I can't comprehend what's going on here. If it's 222 Walnut, that's superb!

If it's 232 Walnut, and the building has been upsized back to 15 floors, we'll reopen the closed thread. I'm pretty sure it is 8 floors though, so in that case, any updates on it will remain in the Lowrise/General Development Thread.
I think everyone got a little carried away here. If I'm not mistaken, the new zoning permit has nothing to do with 232 Walnut (current mansion site). The plans there were approved for only 8 stories last fall - no change since then.

The new permit appears to apply to the adjacent property (222 Walnut), which I believe is this thread. In fact, it may have been downsized quite a bit from its original proposed height (252 ft) to 184 ft. But in any case, as Jay pointed out, all of this may be a nothing burger.

Last edited by skyhigh07; Apr 13, 2021 at 4:28 PM.
     
     
  #51  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 4:22 PM
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Jay, isn't 222-30 Walnut in the Society Hill Historic District? Or is it just outside of it? Can't seem to remember.

If that were the case, it would have to through the Historic Commission before they start pulling permits, correct?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayfar View Post
So per my earlier comments, we reliably know the 3rd & Walnut SEC hotel at 232-36 Walnut is happening as an 8-story building (with the 8th floor set back considerably), as approved by the PHC last October.

As to the new zoning permit for 222-30 Walnut, that is a huge nothing-burger. It is a mere change of use, countering a previous unrealized change of use. As seen in the version listed in the Daily Zoning Report for April 1:

ZP-2021-003077 Apr 1, 2021 222-30 WALNUT ST, Philadelphia, PA 19106-3943 226 WALNUT LP 1
Owner proposes a Change of Use from Educational Facility and Libraries/Cultural Exhibit to Professional Offices. Abandoned previous approved educational facility and Libraries/Cultural Exhibit to previously approved business and professional offices.
     
     
  #52  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 5:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyhigh07 View Post
I think everyone got a little carried away here. If I'm not mistaken, the new zoning permit has nothing to do with 232 Walnut (current mansion site). The plans there were approved for only 8 stories last fall - no change since then.

The new permit appears to apply to the adjacent property (222 Walnut), which I believe is this thread. In fact, it may have been downsized quite a bit from its original proposed height (252 ft) to 184 ft. But in any case, as Jay pointed out, all of this may be a nothing burger.
Please read my previous comments closely. In this thread people posted permit info for both sites which were *issued* this month.

The one for 222-30 Walnut is for change of use only (no actual construction proposed), but isn't even really that — it merely cancels out a previous unrealized change of use from offices to art school/cultural institution, back to the original offices uses.

The zoning permit for 232-36 Walnut is for the hotel, but in one display mode in Eclipse — in the list view of the Daily Zoning Report search — it included the old height information, that automagically copied over from the original application document of last June. In atlas and in other display modes in eclipse the same permit makes no mention of height whatsoever, but does refer to a change of GFA (Gross Floor Area). Also an associated Streets Review SR-2021-000423 (Issued) from March gives the land area as 9,154 sq ft and the building GFA and commercial area as 58,845 sq ft, making clear this is nowhere near 15 stories.
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Last edited by Jayfar; Apr 13, 2021 at 5:36 PM.
     
     
  #53  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 5:20 PM
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Does anyone know when 232 Walnut (mansion site) is expected to break ground?
     
     
  #54  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 5:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyhigh07 View Post
Jay, isn't 222-30 Walnut in the Society Hill Historic District? Or is it just outside of it? Can't seem to remember.

If that were the case, it would have to through the Historic Commission before they start pulling permits, correct?
Both properties in this thread are within the Society Hill Historic District and yes, they must be approved by the PHC. Scroll several pages down in this pdf for the boundary map: https://www.phila.gov/media/20190530...ciety-Hill.pdf
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  #55  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 5:35 PM
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Right, thanks. That's essentially what I was inferring. I think someone thought the 4/8 permit was for the mansion site (that thread was moved to the low-rise thread last year) and we all got somewhat confused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayfar View Post
Please read my previous comments closely. In this thread people posted permit info for both sites which were *issued* this month.

The one for 222-30 Walnut is merely for change of use only (no actual construction), but isn't even really that — it merely cancels out a previous unrealized change of use from offices to art school/cultural institution, back to the original offices uses.

The zoning permit for 232-36 Walnut is for the hotel, but in one display mode, in the list view of the Daily Zoning Report search, it included the old height information, that automagically copied over from the original application document of last June. In atlas and in other disolay modes in eclipse the same permit makes no mention of height whatsoever, but does refer to a change of GFA (Gross Floor Area). Also an associated Streets Review SR-2021-000423 (Issued) from March gives the land area as 9,154 sq ft and the building GFA and commercial area as 58,845 sq ft, making clear this is nowhere near 15 stories.
     
     
  #56  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 5:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyhigh07 View Post
Right, thanks. That's essentially what I was inferring. I think someone thought the 4/8 permit was for the mansion site (that thread was moved to the low-rise thread last year) and we all got somewhat confused.
The permit *issued* 4/8 is indeed for the mansion site (232-36 Walnut), but erroneously displayed outdated height info carried forward in one eclipse display mode. The original application was submitted last June 30th.

https://eclipse.phila.gov/phillylmsp...ctId=246825307

If instead of looking at the link above, you were to use the Daily Zoning Report search with the date April 8, 2021, in the resulting list you would see this same permit with summary info drawn from the original application, but not reflecting changes made before the permit was finally issued this month.

https://eclipse.phila.gov/phillylmsp...Name=PC_Search
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  #57  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 1:25 AM
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…and the final word officially on 232-36 Walnut (3rd & Walnut St, SEC); future followups to the Lowrise/General Developments Thread.

Society Hill hotel tower that sparked backlash moves ahead | PlanPhilly
Developers snagged a zoning permit for a scaled-down hotel tower in Society Hill –– less than a year after a similar proposal from the same developer sparked outcry and the creation of new height limits for parts of the historic neighborhood.

The final iteration of the hotel project would replace a large single-family dwelling from the 1990s near 3rd and Walnut streets with an eight-story, 100-foot tower featuring 90 hotel rooms for an unnamed hospitality operator and ground floor retail.

Rich Villa, partner at Ambit Architecture acting on behalf of owner Marie F. Cerone, said the final project, which was approved by the city’s Historic Commission last year, would be built in excess of the new 65 foot height limit as the developer had applied for zoning permits prior to the passage of the overlay.

[snip]
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  #58  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 1:26 AM
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Me coming back to this thread after Eclipse showed me the wrong info and I got confused between projects.

     
     
  #59  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 1:26 PM
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Sooo yeah.... this project is likely dead then - killed by the Society Hill NIMBYS. We'll close this thread for now, and if anything new pops up in the future, we'll reopen it.

All info and updates for 232 Walnut (the 8-story hotel) can be directed to the Lowrise/General Development Thread.
     
     
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