How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City?

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by SlidellWx

Unfortunately, hospitals are full of unvaxxed COVID patients in the state. The statewide mask mandate was too little too late, and will likely have minimal impact as the unvaxxed are also usually anti-mask and as stated it appears we are peaking right now in terms of infection.

I say that the vaccinated should take priority over those who willfully spit in the face of science. I have absolute disdain for anyone unvaxxed without a valid excuse at this point.

This is a good point, and more reason why we should remove mask mandates, and instead encourage and provide resources for businesses to enforce proof of vaccination mandates.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

You’re missing the point that society didn’t lose its collective mind over Measles like we are over Covid. I mean, look at Covid death rates right now. They are as low as could be, even with the Delta variant, nationwide.

Nobody is bothering to look at this

Our relationship with death and tolerance for risk has evolved since the pandemics of legend. Especially in western countries.

Everyone expects that they and their loved ones will live to about 80 now, barring some freak bad luck.

Stuff like COVID is outside of people's frame of reference and expectations. That's why everyone freaked out about it.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by homebucket

This is a good point, and more reason why we should remove mask mandates, and instead encourage and provide resources for businesses to enforce proof of vaccination mandates.

Why does it have to be one or the other? We should have both until the delta wave is over (as it is now in India and the UK). Vaccination is more important but mask sfill provide sn incremental reduction in viral transmission since now we know that a not insignificant percentage of vaccinated people can get symptom-free infections and infect others.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Our relationship with death and tolerance for risk has evolved since the pandemics of legend. Especially in western countries.

Everyone expects that they and their loved ones will live to about 80 now, barring some freak bad luck.

Stuff like COVID is outside of people's frame of reference and expectations. That's why everyone freaked out about it.

That started when we required seat belts in cars. I hate the seat belt mandate.

[Pedestrian]

On the left coast in San Francisco:


https://sf.gov/data/covid-19-vaccinations

[10023]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Our relationship with death and tolerance for risk has evolved since the pandemics of legend. Especially in western countries.

Everyone expects that they and their loved ones will live to about 80 now, barring some freak bad luck.

Stuff like COVID is outside of people's frame of reference and expectations. That's why everyone freaked out about it.

And that’s what really needs to change. Human life expectancy, in the actual sense of “expectations”, has gotten much too long.

And it means that these are low-quality and very expensive years, because it’s not just the genetically “lucky” or very healthy individuals who live this long, but others supported by all kinds of medical treatment. There is no point in spending 5-10 years in nursing care and yet people do it because they fear death.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

That started when we required seat belts in cars. I hate the seat belt mandate.

You hate wearing a seat belt in a car but you’re happy walking around with a tight-fitting N95 mask over your face? That makes no sense.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

So? They're already sick or old so it's OK if they die a year or 10 years sooner than they would have? People like to toss around the word "fascism" here. Euthanizing the old, the deformed, the disabled and so on is precisely what certain fascist regimes did. We claimed to have been better than that and we should be. A premature death is a premature death.

It’s not euthanasia if they’re dying from a natural cause, like Covid.

A premature death by a few years is not the same as a premature death by decades (from say, gunfire). Once somebody is in their 70s they have already lived a full life.

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Our relationship with death and tolerance for risk has evolved since the pandemics of legend. Especially in western countries.

Everyone expects that they and their loved ones will live to about 80 now, barring some freak bad luck.

Stuff like COVID is outside of people's frame of reference and expectations. That's why everyone freaked out about it.

Just wait until climate change really takes ahold!



Will make the Covid death toll seem like peanuts.

Some stats (per year in the U.S... note just the U.S.):

Heart disease: 659,041
Cancer: 599,601
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 173,040
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 156,979
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 150,005
Alzheimer’s disease: 121,499
Diabetes: 87,647
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 51,565
Influenza and Pneumonia: 49,783
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,511


Although nobody talks about the mosquito. Kills via its vectors 1,000,000 folks per year. And humans? Murders are almost 500k globally. Snakes kill 50,000.

IDK... but locking down and crippling the economy and lives to save say an extra 20k over the long run seems like its not worth the risk...

Especially if they choose to not get vaccinated. They run the risk regardless and a lot of those folks are over 70/80 anyways.

Anybody heard of TB? Kills 1.5 million a year.

If anything, Malaria is more of a risk in the long run.

AND AND... antibiotic resitant bacteria. Forget viruses, bacteria are the ultimate source of plague. Can really be deadly. We just have antibiotics so we forget about them!!!

Back in the olden days, a cut outside in the forest could spell death. I'm just saying. A simple wound could mean the end.

[pasharaxel]

The most thing that makes me happy in my city is how combined all of us followed safety guidelines and adhered to all the protocols. Although it came out in form of strict rules but nevertheless all for good. Happy to wear a mask, using sanitizers everywhere we go. The conditions might not be good but since we have followed safety guidelines we are living happily.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by 10023

You hate wearing a seat belt in a car but you’re happy walking around with a tight-fitting N95 mask over your face? That makes no sense.

Yeah that inconsistency about Howard struck me as well

[eschaton]

I had to deal with a major COVID freak-out from my wife last night.

Both of us are of course fully vaxxed, but neither of our kids are. Daughter is turning 12 this month and will get her first shot soon. Son is 7.

Regardless, our county just edged up into the range where the CDC is strongly suggesting indoor mask use even among the vaccinated. Her work required everyone to wear masks all day yesterday.

She's mostly freaking out because we are going on a family vacation in a week and a half to LA. We chose it a few months ago before the spike - mostly because none of us had ever been and we had a huge flight credit from a canceled 2020 international trip to use up. We've now sunk thousands into an Airbnb, Disney tickets, etc. So now she's trapped between her desire to not waste money and her (largely irrational) fears of the kids getting serious COVID cases.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I had to deal with a major COVID freak-out from my wife last night.

Both of us are of course fully vaxxed, but neither of our kids are. Daughter is turning 12 this month and will get her first shot soon. Son is 7.

Regardless, our county just edged up into the range where the CDC is strongly suggesting indoor mask use even among the vaccinated. Her work required everyone to wear masks all day yesterday.

She's mostly freaking out because we are going on a family vacation in a week and a half to LA. We chose it a few months ago before the spike - mostly because none of us had ever been and we had a huge flight credit from a canceled 2020 international trip to use up. We've now sunk thousands into an Airbnb, Disney tickets, etc. So now she's trapped between her desire to not waste money and her (largely irrational) fears of the kids getting serious COVID cases.

It doesn't sound like you'll be spending a lot of time in enclosed spaces with strangers. Strap a couple of N95s over their faces and go.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I had to deal with a major COVID freak-out from my wife last night.

Both of us are of course fully vaxxed, but neither of our kids are. Daughter is turning 12 this month and will get her first shot soon. Son is 7.

Regardless, our county just edged up into the range where the CDC is strongly suggesting indoor mask use even among the vaccinated. Her work required everyone to wear masks all day yesterday.

She's mostly freaking out because we are going on a family vacation in a week and a half to LA. We chose it a few months ago before the spike - mostly because none of us had ever been and we had a huge flight credit from a canceled 2020 international trip to use up. We've now sunk thousands into an Airbnb, Disney tickets, etc. So now she's trapped between her desire to not waste money and her (largely irrational) fears of the kids getting serious COVID cases.

I recommend you tell her to stop worrying.

I'm sure it will fall on deaf ears, because we've collectedly lost our minds as a society and have lost the ability to risk-assess any longer (and she's a Mom, which is a whole different story). Good luck

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Strap a couple of N95s over their faces and go.

Why?

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Why?

Peace of mind.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I had to deal with a major COVID freak-out from my wife last night.

Both of us are of course fully vaxxed, but neither of our kids are. Daughter is turning 12 this month and will get her first shot soon. Son is 7.

Regardless, our county just edged up into the range where the CDC is strongly suggesting indoor mask use even among the vaccinated. Her work required everyone to wear masks all day yesterday.

She's mostly freaking out because we are going on a family vacation in a week and a half to LA. We chose it a few months ago before the spike - mostly because none of us had ever been and we had a huge flight credit from a canceled 2020 international trip to use up. We've now sunk thousands into an Airbnb, Disney tickets, etc. So now she's trapped between her desire to not waste money and her (largely irrational) fears of the kids getting serious COVID cases.

Disneyland is mostly outdoors and you can opt to do outdoor dining only. Just have them wear masks when in crowded indoor places like the airport and airplane.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Why does it have to be one or the other? We should have both until the delta wave is over (as it is now in India and the UK). Vaccination is more important but mask sfill provide sn incremental reduction in viral transmission since now we know that a not insignificant percentage of vaccinated people can get symptom-free infections and infect others.

There is some data coming out that with the Delta variant, fully vaccinated people with "breakthrough" infections may be just as likely as unvaccinated people to spread the virus to others, but also viral loads decrease faster in vaccinated people, so they would be infectious for a shorter duration of time.

Did you get your result back yet? I'm guessing there is a high chance your physicians had breakthrough infection with the Delta variant, but at the same time, you were wearing an N95 mask.

[Matthew]

Out of curiosity...

Could someone take a restaurant or retailer to court over mask requirements?

Can a restaurant owner or their employees with no medical training, no medical degree, and no license, give you (the customer) medical advice (for your health and the health of others) and prescribe a medical device (mask) and do so without privately seeing you in an office (likely not even being on-site in the case of the owner), not looking at your medical history, not allowing you to refuse their medical advice or get a second opinion? Giving medical advice and prescribing a medical device, without a license, as a requirement to enter somewhere is likely a violation of law?

I think if all of these businesses had to hire medical staff for every location, meet with each customer, and you could still refuse their medical treatment or present something different from your own doctor, that would likely be the end of businesses requiring masks? At best, they could suggest wearing a mask, but not require it in many locations in this country. In many places in this country, that would be the end of masking requirements. At the state-level, it's often emergency orders with a doctor advising, but even some of those emergency orders are struck-down in the courts. I'm surprised an anti-masker in this region of the country hasn't tried this to keep their local restaurants and grocery store from requiring masks.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Matthew

Out of curiosity...

Could someone take a restaurant or retailer to court over mask requirements?

Can a restaurant owner or their employees with no medical training, no medical degree, and no license, give you (the customer) medical advice (for your health and the health of others) and prescribe a medical device (mask) and do so without privately seeing you in an office (likely not even being on-site in the case of the owner), not looking at your medical history, not allowing you to refuse their medical advice or get a second opinion? Giving medical advice and prescribing a medical device, without a license, as a requirement to enter somewhere is likely a violation of law?

I think if all of these businesses had to hire medical staff for every location, meet with each customer, and you could still refuse their medical treatment or present something different from your own doctor, that would likely be the end of businesses requiring masks? At best, they could suggest wearing a mask, but not require it. In many places in this country, that would be the end of masking requirements. At the state-level, it's often emergency orders with a doctor advising, but even some of those emergency orders are struck-down in the courts. I'm surprised an anti-masker hasn't tried this to keep their local restaurants and grocery store from requiring masks.

There is nothing to sue about. Businesses have pretty wide authority for establishing dress code on their property.

The gray area is whether government has the authority to mandate that businesses require customers to wear masks. So far, it's been mostly a yes, but, for some idiotic reason, a few statehouses have created laws restricting it in their states.