PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

Wawa officially announced the closings of 12th and Market and 19th and Market Let's get the Old Nelson replacements!

Wow. They're like, leaving Philly.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

Wawa officially announced the closings of 12th and Market and 19th and Market Let's get the Old Nelson replacements!

There's an Old Nelson within walking distance of the 12th and Market Wawa that I've been going to instead. Not sure of the nearest one to 19th and Market.

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

There's an Old Nelson within walking distance of the 12th and Market Wawa that I've been going to instead. Not sure of the nearest one to 19th and Market.

20st and Chestnut /19th and JFK. What do we think? Why do they exist just fine? Just a different clientele?

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by McBane

Here's the problem with N. Broad: too many institutional type establishments that don't exactly drive a lot of foot traffic and activity. Starting at City Hall...

Municipal Services Building and that awful plaza. They can redo the plaza for sure, but with Love Park and Dilworth Park right there, it feels like another park/plaza is the last thing this area needs. Across the street, there's the Masonic Temple and a church - beautiful buildings but they don't really activate the street, unless you count the homeless who hang by the church. It's likely this block of N. Broad will be forever dead.

The next block is better with the aloft hotel, the Convention Center, and PAFA but still not exactly a thriving, vibrant block either.

As you go further up, there are garages, a few shabby office/medical buildings, parking lots, what used to be Hahneman Hospital. The retail offerings for this stretch include a McDonalds (still open?), a Walgreens, a nondescript pizzeria, a 7-11, and the PAFA shop (which seems to maintain erratic hours).

And then you hit Vine Street. Ironically, it's after Vine Street where they seems to be some momentum but there's still too many holes (parking lots, that giant data center, Roman Catholic High, etc.) that prevent a critical mass from forming and being able to support a contiguous string of retail and dining. That data center in particular is awful - wish they could include some ground floor retail there but I get it that there's not enough pedestrian traffic.

Wow, great rundown. I guess this also answers why South Broad has been more successful in a resurgence.

Originally Posted by Redddog

Wow. They're like, leaving Philly.

That stinks about 19th & Market though, that was a nice store and convenient for workers and residents in the area. Hopefully something (like Old Nelson) fills the space, because that stretch of Market will be even more barren. Also, I understand safety concerns at 12th & Market, but is 19th & Market bad?

Also, this story made the local news... certainly gives the Philly trolling A LOT more momentum. :/

[summersm343]

While Wawa leaving is concerning, and I 100% agree that the city needs to get crime under control, start punishing retail theft again, etc….it’s Wawa. I feel like they go through this every 10 years or so. When I originally moved to Philadelphia from Bucks County in 2010 for school at Temple, I swear there were only 1 or 2 Wawa’s in Center City. I’m not concerned. They’ll be back. Plus, it says they’re “repurposing” those stores? What does that mean? Are they just planning a new model for the urban format to combat retail theft?

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

There's an Old Nelson within walking distance of the 12th and Market Wawa that I've been going to instead. Not sure of the nearest one to 19th and Market.

19th and JFK there’s an Old Nelson

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by summersm343

While Wawa leaving is concerning, and I 100% agree that the city needs to get crime under control, start punishing retail theft again, etc….it’s Wawa.

I think I went into the 12th/Market WaWa once even though I pass it almost every day. Frankly, I’d rather see any decent fast food restaurant there. Unfortunately, the current WaWa business model and store format just aren’t conducive to current conditions in the city right now. That location attracted a fair amount of junkies. Although, they seemed to have been cleared out in recent months

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

I think I went into the 12th/Market WaWa once even though I pass it almost every day. Frankly, I’d rather see any decent fast food restaurant there. Unfortunately, the current WaWa business model and store format just aren’t conducive to current conditions in the city right now. That location attracted a fair amount of junkies. Although, they seemed to have been cleared out in recent months

A Cane's would work excellently at 12th and Market.

[Urbanthusiat]

Anything that is over the counter is fine. It’s when you put out all your merch out to grab and run easily that it’s a problem. Sad state of affairs. Reforms to fix this kind of issue are gonna take a long long time. A Pret a Manger would be another good type of store to replace the Wawa. Not much to grab and run but still serves a similar purpose.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Plus, it says they’re “repurposing” those stores? What does that mean? Are they just planning a new model for the urban format to combat retail theft?

They have a store on 16th just north of Chestnut that basically carries almost no inventory on the floor. Slightly smaller footprint.

You can order food on the touch screens and they have a pickup window and there's a coffee bar; but basically it's a food pickup location. Plus cigarettes and tobacco behind the counter and a few odds and ends on the floor, but it's mostly about getting your sandwich/hoagie/coffee to go.

I wouldn't be surprised if they go to this format for more city stores. You don't need a full inventory of groceries and products when you have a DiBruno brothers, Trader Joes and an Heirloom all within about 3 blocks.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

A Cane's would work excellently at 12th and Market.

Haha was thinking that as well! I read they’re making plans to somewhat rapidly expand into the Philly market. I could also see a cafe/coffee chain go in there that would probably do well with the surrounding hotels and office workers - they’d probably need a somewhat strict bathroom/loitering policy though.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by Londonee

I wouldn't be surprised if they go to this format for more city stores. You don't need a full inventory of groceries and products when you have a DiBruno brothers, Trader Joes and an Heirloom all within about 3 blocks.

True true. They also mentioned in the article they’re closing those stores due to “business factors.” I imagine that means increased competition from the other stores you mentioned including the Heirloom on Market that opened recently. Come to think of it, the 19th St location is also a few blocks away from the other new Giant lol. Hmm…

[skyhigh07]

My guess with the Wawa closings is that of course they’re dealing with theft and safety concerns but perhaps they’ve been able to keep a handle on it over the last several years as long as business at those locations remained strong. I imagine that the two new Giants flanking them took a significant bite out of their market share where perhaps they could no longer justify paying for additional security etc. The reduced format model that Londonee mentioned probably would now be a much better option for them at those locations. It solves the safety issues AND they don’t have to compete as a food market with Giant. They’d probably do much better just selling coffee, bagels and sandwiches at this point.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Also, this story made the local news... certainly gives the Philly trolling A LOT more momentum. :/

The spots will get filled. But this is another black eye on the city. There's a lot of blame to go around (city's leadership, these hooligans, and their parents) - everyone should be embarrassed. Fingers crossed this isn't picked up nationally. We just can't have nice things.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by McBane

We just can't have nice things.

Nice or some?

As someone mentioned earlier, there’s certain stores that deal with these problems more than others. DiBruno’s is very nice but for whatever reason they don’t seem to be having these issues (at least to this extent) at any of their locations.

[TempleGuy1000]

I'm not willing to count out this being a political stunt either. The timing is perfect.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

I'm not willing to count out this being a political stunt either. The timing is perfect.

Who knows… After a few years of following CC development, I’ve realized that every store closing and every setback is not DEFCON 1. Remember when everyone was pulling their hair out when the Walgreen’s on Broad/Chestnut closed? Turned out that spot will get something more exciting, which is the Insomnia HQ. Im not trying to be flippant and I still think the closings are unfortunate and frustrating, but these situations have a funny way of evolving unexpectedly over time. There are also deals and business decisions being made that the general public is unaware of - instead we just see the vacant storefront.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by summersm343

While Wawa leaving is concerning, and I 100% agree that the city needs to get crime under control, start punishing retail theft again, etc….

Just a reminder to operate in reality

"According to PPD and criminal courts data, arrests by police for retail theft are up 10% over this time last year, and charges from our office are up 13% over this time last year," the DA's office said.

https://6abc.com/philadelphia-pa-sho...rime/12206296/

[PHLtoNYC]

I have to laugh... Wawa announces closures of 2 CC stores, and KoP announces Givenchy coming soon...

Philadelphia needs more nice things.

(just a fun statement, I am not saying Philly needs a Givenchy store, the timing was just comical).

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

I have to laugh... Wawa announces closures of 2 CC stores, and KoP announces Givenchy coming soon...

Philadelphia needs more nice things.

(just a fun statement, I am not saying Philly needs a Givenchy store, the timing was just comical).

I mean, I’m just devastated we’re losing two rather dirty convenience chain stores that tend to attract a lot of homeless and junkies.. I suppose those spaces will become quiet, boring bank branches now or something. I simply don’t know how I’m going to get over this ...

If we lose the 7/11 on Chestnut/13th that always seems to have two or three homeless loitering outside, we’ve lost the city. I just couldn’t stand seeing another froyo shop at that spot.

[McBane]

Yeah I'm not shedding a tear for Wawa. But again, the optics don't look good. That's more my concern.