Toronto supplants US cities as fastest growing tech hub

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Generally speaking visa access between Canada and the US is extremely easy in skilled professions. Literally all you need is a job offer and you can show up at the border and get your visa rubber stamped from my understanding as long as you are within certain fields. Plus, you can spend up to 6 months a year in the US without a visa as long as you aren't working. The border is extremely porous with the right education.

It means a lot of Canadian-born top-tech talent moves, as Canada is basically part of the US tech labor pool.

As Lio45 said, Toronto's attraction is not home-grown tech talent, it's the easier ability to grab talent globally, significantly lower salaries, etc. A lot of tech offices in the City are subsidiary offices of FAANG and other mega-tech firms. They keep their highest level employees in Silicon Valley, but as soon as you are posting non-HQ jobs, it's just easier and way cheaper to fill them in Toronto than it is in Washington or Chicago or wherever.

An interesting side-effect of this is likely that top Canadian talent can easily move to the US to work for someone, but not as easily move to the US and start a business immediately. Probably keeps Canadian-founded tech companies down as many Canadians who may be inclined to try a start-up instead go work for FAANG as they have too poor access to capital in Toronto where they can actually legally start a company.

I think you're talking about the NAFTA visa, but I don't think that one applies to tech industry jobs. There is another visa that I thought applied to Australians and Canadians, but appears to only be applicable to Australians* now. I think Canadians must apply for the H1b now like almost everyone else. That said, the cap is by country of birth, so natural born Canadians would have a much easier time with the H1b than Indian nationals.

*The E-3 visa does allow Australians to work in the tech industry, but I don't think they can use that to get in the pipeline for green cards. To do that they would need to apply for an H1b.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

I can see this, but the Bay Area is significantly more Asian.

This was my main point. They dont really look or feel the same at all.

I think it's more so that Seattle is a mini SF than SF is a bigger Seattle. If you look at it from that frame of reference, the analogy makes a little more sense.

Some parts of Seattle do look like they could pass for SF to the average person.
https://goo.gl/maps/fAhSMAC2UAfT3r9k8
https://goo.gl/maps/gNppkmvAEFztceN79
https://goo.gl/maps/6Nv9CCLQUcEGtjiQ8

They even have their own mini 555 California:
https://goo.gl/maps/BaXe2sYkCRVULsyG9

[mhays]

I had an English visitor in July. He found Seattle sparse and lacking people in most neighborhoods. But San Francisco felt much more like London, and like a "world city." He wasn't wrong. Seattle isn't on that level.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by mhays

I had an English visitor in July. He found Seattle sparse and lacking people in most neighborhoods. But San Francisco felt much more like London, and like a "world city." He wasn't wrong. Seattle isn't on that level.

Interesting. I've stayed in Capitol Hill before and found it not too dissimilar in terms of vibrancy and pedestrian activity from your typical SF neighborhoods. Uptown and Fremont were also very pleasant and walkable.

[mrnyc]

i cant think of three more different places than sf, london and seattle in every way.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

i cant think of three more different places than sf, london and seattle in every way.

Lukewarm summer weather?

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by mhays

I had an English visitor in July. He found Seattle sparse and lacking people in most neighborhoods. But San Francisco felt much more like London, and like a "world city." He wasn't wrong. Seattle isn't on that level.

I wouldnt say all that. Seattle is no slouch nor am I suggesting that in any way---it has it's own look and vibe that imo is different from SF.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Blue Bottle is more expensive for sure. But it’s also better as it usually is when we’re looking at third wave coffee places. If we’re talking value proposition then it would be most economical to buy your own preferred beans, and grind and brew at home. SF also has tons of local coffee shops as well (probably the most per capita). I just figured I’d throw out some places that someone not from SF might recognize.

LA has good coffee too. You just gotta drive to get to them. In SF, you can actually do a coffee shop crawl.

Well, I can walk to my local Jones Coffee Roasters. Hehe but yeah I guess it'd take a LOT of walking to do a coffee shop crawl in LA, though some of them are in clusters. But it's probably easier to do a boba or tea crawl in the SGV than it is to do a coffee house crawl.

[mhays]

Seattle has sizeable areas of high-level urbanity, and they're growing quickly, but still only 20% of the city allows density. Some places like Capitol Hill, parts of Belltown, the U District, etc., have become a pretty decent facsimile. But in SF that's more like the norm in the NE 50% of the city.

As for coffee, ours are mostly local providers, not Starbucks.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Sounds like Maple hustler propaganda. Don't believe this northern drivel my fellow Yanks.

[lio45]

One could say SF is a hybrid of London and Seattle.

I find SF and London to be somewhat similar in several ways. SF has always be considered “the most European of the American cities”, so it’s not just me who invented that.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by lio45

One could say SF is a hybrid of London and Seattle.

I find SF and London to be somewhat similar in several ways. SF has always be considered “the most European of the American cities”, so it’s not just me who invented that.

The "European" they're referring to is on the Iberian peninsula. SF and Lisbon feel very similar to me... But SF doesn't look like London, nor does it have a similar vibe to London, nor does it have even a remotely similar topography. I'd describe London as a mix of New York and Washington.

[MolsonExport]

San Francisco is European-styled? Not the SF I visited in 2017. Maybe there is another SF?

The most "European" of American big cities, if there are any, would be on the East Coast (e.g., New England, perhaps Savannah, Georgia), or the Gulf Coast (New Orleans?).

[edale]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

San Francisco is European-styled? Not the SF I visited in 2017. Maybe there is another SF?

The most "European" of American big cities, if there are any, would be on the East Coast (e.g., New England, perhaps Savannah, Georgia), or the Gulf Coast (New Orleans?).

I think the comparison mhays made between SF and London was that they're both true 'global cities', whereas Seattle is down a tier. It's still a great US city, but doesn't have the same gravitas or cosmopolitan energy of a London, Paris, Hong Kong, etc. I'd argue SF is not quite in that tier either, but it definitely fits in more with the top tier of global cities than Seattle.

As for big US cities that feel like Europe, I'd say Boston comes close in a lot of areas. Beacon Hill, Back Bay, North End...all remind me a bit of London and Dublin. Savannah isn't a big city, and imo doesn't feel remotely similar to anything I've seen in Europe. Parts of NOLA can feel vaguely European, but it feels more like an amalgamation of cultures and styles than anything.

Having just come back from South Africa, Cape Town reminded me quite a bit of San Francisco. The topography and resulting microclimates, proximity to a fantastic wine region, the little enclaves by the coast, even the plants...all felt pretty similar to SF. Even the waterfront area felt a bit like SF's piers and Embarcadero area.

[proghousehead]

Manhattan below 14th street is the closest equivalent to Europe - all in. Meandering narrow streets, old architecture and row homes - many from the 1800s, similar “late night” vibe with lots of cafes and outdoor dining, bars, clubs; public transport accessible, lots of pedestrians etc.

Parts of Boston, Philadelphia and DC come close as well.

That’s it.

At a superficial level could maybe make a case for SF and NO, but not by every metric.

[Djesus777]

I always love seeing people make excuses/get triggered when a Canadian city outperforms American cities. Sorry (not sorry) we're improving while the U.S continues to spiral downwards. Stay salty

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by proghousehead

Manhattan below 14th street is the closest equivalent to Europe - all in. Meandering narrow streets, old architecture and row homes - many from the 1800s, similar “late night” vibe with lots of cafes and outdoor dining, bars, clubs; public transport accessible, lots of pedestrians etc.

Parts of Boston, Philadelphia and DC come close as well.

That’s it.

At a superficial level could maybe make a case for SF and NO, but not by every metric.

Manhattan is really too dense to have a direct analogy to anything in Europe, except Paris. SF's density is very inline with generic European major city density, though.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

San Francisco is European-styled? Not the SF I visited in 2017. Maybe there is another SF?

The most "European" of American big cities, if there are any, would be on the East Coast (e.g., New England, perhaps Savannah, Georgia), or the Gulf Coast (New Orleans?).

SF is not "European-styled", but many from there see bits of Europe in their trip to SF. I have heard this countless times.

And there is more to Europe than the North and East.

[lio45]

I’ve been in Manhattan a few times but have not explored it as thoroughly as Boston, and I’d name Beacon Hill as the area that feels most like London in the States. (Just my opinion, obviously.)

[Crawford]

The only ways I see SF as vaguely "European" is if we're talking Spain/Portugal, or just the fact that the city is fairly dense, vibrant and transit-oriented, which are, in the U.S. context, seen as "European" attributes (even though they were equally American attributes until the 1960's, but whatever).