HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Transportation


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #7201  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2022, 5:16 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
The Transport Minister's going announce new funding for YOW on Monday morning: https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...898857500.html

I wonder if it'll be more funding for the train stop?
I wouldn't be surprised if the re-re-re-announced the O-Train station funding. Speculation however, is that it will be related to supply line reinforcement.

https://canadasairports.ca/press_rel...commendations/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7202  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2022, 10:14 PM
fanofYOW fanofYOW is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Posts: 469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
PAL actually only briefly flew YFC-YOW and later changed to YOW-YQM 6x weekly. At least PD still serve YFC like you said. So next summer AC will be down to the following destinations:
-YVR
-YYC
-YWG
-YYZ
-YTZ
-YUL
-YQB
-YHZ
-EWR
-DCA

10 destinations with only 3 of those on mainline. That's it. A far cry from 2019. Heck, it's even less than summer 2022.

Today's departure count: 69

Today's cancellation count: 1
Not sure if I'm the only one that thinks this, but this seems like good news to me. This might be an indication that competition is heating up and instead of AC putting something out to win pax back, they are just going to cut. I can't see AC ever adding direct NA routes so this just means more room for the carriers that actually give a s*** about YOW is how I see it! Or maybe they will shift to more European routes from YOW, something that not all airlines are able to offer? This cut is making me hope for an ULCC to add YYT. For sure I will be using it if it happens.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7203  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2022, 11:45 PM
Catenary Catenary is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighwayStar View Post
Was scheduled on PD224 at noon today and watched the Porter s**t show for 4 hours. Now on a train arriving at 10:30 tonite.

Porter operations needs retooling. I get weather can’t be controlled, but zero information was given. Got a text at 3:45pm telling me my flight was delayed to 2:00pm. At one point, our flight was listed at gate 41 (which doesn’t exist).. another time it showed as departed.

People at the gates were friendly enough, but the board often showed a departure time which was in the past. Porters own website listed the flight as completed on-time.

Not sure which specific problems were Porters and which belonged to YOW.. but it was a very frustrating day…. Arrrgh.
This sounds like a disconnect between the internal Porter system and the Airport FIDS (Flight Information Display System) and other third party systems. I've had the issue before as airport staff, and it seems to happen to some carriers more than others, Porter being one of them. The backup is to manually keep an eye on the carrier information and then manually update the airport FIDS to match.

The airport FIDS systems are pretty "dumb", even with a link to the carrier system they often don't get updates right away and only use scheduled/known times. This is fine when things are delayed in advance, but when a plane is at the gate and takes a 20 minute delay that often won't be pushed through the system right away and can result in internal signage saying departed when the flight has actually yet to board.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7204  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2022, 4:18 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,909
Today’s departure count: 56, including 9 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count: 2
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7205  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2022, 10:06 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,909
Today’s departure count: 65, including 6 sun flights
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7206  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2022, 3:02 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,909
Today’s departure count: 64, including 4 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count: 1
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7207  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2022, 4:24 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,011
Big hoopla for what's essentially regular maintenance.

Quote:
Omar Alghabra
@OmarAlghabra


Today we announced funding for @FlyYow for the rehabilitation of taxiways at the airport. It will ensure safe, continued operations for passengers, airline crews, and airport workers. Details http://bit.ly/3VoNBG2




David McGuinty
11:01 AM · Nov 28, 2022
·Twitter Web App
https://twitter.com/OmarAlghabra/sta...cUzSZZ9EGqN16Q
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7208  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2022, 5:34 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,668
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Big hoopla for what's essentially regular maintenance.
It's laughable as an announcement really. I guess annoucables on improving air travel are going to be a thing until we get a summer without chaos and the criticism goes away.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7209  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2022, 11:41 PM
fanofYOW fanofYOW is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Posts: 469
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...fb0150332/amp/

“As the national capital and seat of the federal government, people heading to Ottawa shouldn’t have to transfer to Montreal and Toronto first, as they often do now, Coun. Theresa Kavanagh said at the time. “We’re not a backwater.”

I love it when people publicly bash AC for expecting us to be funnelled through Toronto and Montreal for every damn destination. It seems it’s getting more prevalent too. I have never personally seen this happen until this year where it’s already happened twice.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7210  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2022, 12:43 AM
rocketphish's Avatar
rocketphish rocketphish is online now
Planet Ottawa and beyond
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 12,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by fanofYOW View Post
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...fb0150332/amp/

“As the national capital and seat of the federal government, people heading to Ottawa shouldn’t have to transfer to Montreal and Toronto first, as they often do now, Coun. Theresa Kavanagh said at the time. “We’re not a backwater.”

I love it when people publicly bash AC for expecting us to be funnelled through Toronto and Montreal for every damn destination. It seems it’s getting more prevalent too. I have never personally seen this happen until this year where it’s already happened twice.
Ottawa airport looking to city, province for support in securing more flights; feds spending nearly $4 million to repave taxiways

Taylor Blewett, Ottawa Citizen
Nov 28, 2022 • 1 hour ago • 4 minute read


Federal infrastructure dollars have once again landed at the Ottawa International Airport, but what many would also welcome are more flights landing, too.

At a Monday morning announcement highlighting a federal investment of nearly $4 million in taxiway rehabilitation at the airport, Transport Minister Omar Alghabra said he’d like to see more flight options for residents of the Ottawa-Gatineau region.

“I know that the airline sector, in general, is trying to recover from the COVID impact … And I know that all major airlines are reassessing their flight schedules and their flight routes,” said Alghabra, in response to a question from this newspaper about flight offerings in Ottawa.

“I really would like to see more options for the people of Ottawa, and the federal government will do whatever we can.”

But it’s the municipal and provincial level where the airport has been looking for direct support with route development, said Mark Laroche, CEO of the Ottawa International Airport Authority, in an interview following the announcement.

Laroche says he told former Mayor Jim Watson about two ways the city could assist the airport. One way was a tax-break program for businesses that rent and develop on federal land around the Ottawa airport. This was approved by council in July, and Watson said then that it would allow the airport — which is a not-for-profit entity — to increase its revenue through rent collection and, potentially, the number of flights operating out of the airport.

But this won’t result in cash-on-hand right away, Laroche said Monday. His other ask of the city, unfulfilled at this point, was for an air service development fund, which Laroche explained the airport could use to respond to something that’s becoming a more common practice in the airline industry.

When airlines take on a new route, there’s uncertainty that they’ll achieve the passenger volumes and profit they’d like to. Increasingly, said Laroche, they’re asking for incentives to mitigate risk and ensure profitability at the end of the year.

“For that, we need revenues and that cannot come only from the airport. It has to be with other partners in order to attract these new destinations.”

Laroche pointed to examples of such funds in Winnipeg, Edmonton and Nova Scotia, supported by municipal or provincial contributions.

In addition to the former mayor’s office, the Ottawa airport authority has also put this ask to the provincial government, but Laroche said they have yet to hear back.

The relative scarcity of direct flight options out of the airport was the subject of council discussion ahead of approval of the airport tax break program in July, leading Watson to commit to writing to the feds for help addressing this.

As the national capital and seat of the federal government, people heading to Ottawa shouldn’t have to transfer to Montreal and Toronto first, as they often do now, Coun. Theresa Kavanagh said at the time. “We’re not a backwater.”

But there are no federal programs for the provision of cash to airports to try to woo flight offerings, according to Laroche, who explained that the Government of Canada’s role has been to invest in infrastructure.

In response to a follow-up question about his expression of federal interest Monday in helping the airport secure more flights, a spokesperson for Alghabra provided a statement noting that “our government will always support and invest in our air sector. Investments in our airports help attract more flights, making it more efficient for airlines and easier to get around for passengers.”

Monday’s announcement of nearly $4-million for the airport’s taxiways follows a federal investment of $6.4 million last year for the construction of the Stage 2 LRT station at the airport.

Alghabra’s spokesperson added that “we are always renegotiating air agreements with other countries and will always make the case for cities like Ottawa,” but that “route options are the responsibility of airlines themselves.”

Laroche said Monday that passenger volumes have reached 75 per cent of pre-pandemic levels so far this year, and he expects that to increase to 80 per cent or four million passengers by the end of next year. The airport’s charter season, with vacation flights to southern destinations, is looking to match if not surpass 2019, said Laroche, but business travel volumes remain reduced.

Speaking at an annual public meeting of the board of the airport authority in May, Laroche projected that leisure travel would fully rebound but noted that there was significant uncertainty on the business travel side – historically 40 per cent of the airport’s passenger base – with the federal government reviewing how it works in the post-pandemic era.

“Our business-to-leisure breakdown is sure to change, and so must we,” Laroche said at the time.

As for the airport authority’s own work to secure new flight offerings, Laroche pointed Monday to a recent announcement by Porter Airlines about its construction of two hangers at the airport for the maintenance of new Embraer E195-E2 and existing De Havilland Dash 8-400 aircraft. The airport authority has undertaken the construction of a $15-million taxiway that will support Porter’s plans, with both hangars scheduled for completion by early 2024.

With more planes cycling through, there’s the possibility of additional routes, said Laroche, and Porter has said its new E195-E2s will enable operations throughout North America.

Currently, the airport hosts non-stop flights to major Canadian cities and a handful of U.S. hubs, plus seasonal flights to select sun destinations.

Speaking at the May board meeting, Laroche said the airport authority was in talks with Air Canada to pitch the airport as an “ideal market” for 182-seat Airbus A321NEO-XLRs that the airline was planning to start adding to its fleet in 2024. Laroche spoke of the potential to reintroduce non-stop flights between the Ottawa airport, London-Heathrow, Frankfurt, “and possibly even the addition of Paris.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...epave-taxiways
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7211  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2022, 2:58 PM
Tesladom Tesladom is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 466
Personally I think the Feds should pony up the money to guarantee the profitability of both London and Frankfurt flights to Ottawa in order to facilitate Government operations. This should be seen differently than your traditional regional growth programs. As a G7 Capital city, we need direct daily flights to the major hubs
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7212  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2022, 3:59 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 24,473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesladom View Post
Personally I think the Feds should pony up the money to guarantee the profitability of both London and Frankfurt flights to Ottawa in order to facilitate Government operations. This should be seen differently than your traditional regional growth programs. As a G7 Capital city, we need direct daily flights to the major hubs
Great policy to drive resentment up elsewhere. Just imagine the headlines in Edmonton, Quebec City, Winnipeg and Halifax. And that's aside from the fact that subsidizing flying goes very much against other policy goals.

Also, what's the point of constantly bringing up the G7? They all have capitals that are multiples of Ottawa in size and are major global centres in their own right. That's why they attract flights. Non historic made up capitals always suffer from a lack of service. Canberra doesn't have any international long haul (they have a QR tag via Melbourne). Bonn didn't get a lot of international long haul during the Cold War and lost most of it after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

There's zero need for direct flights to London and Frankfurt for government operations. Public servants can fly cattle class through Toronto and Montreal just fine. And senior officials have RCAF VVIP transport available to move them anywhere anytime. They don't need commercial flights. Ditto for any large military unit going out the door.

Subsidizing flights without any real economic necessity, just for the sake of vanity, is something corrupt regimes do. Zero need for Canada to do that. Want more flights? Build a market that is worth flying too. A disproportionate dependence on public servants who have stricter long haul flight rules than a lot of the private sector is not helping. If we had a larger tech sector, we'd probably get the service. Like all those G7 capitals with real economies.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7213  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2022, 4:05 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,909
Today's departure count: 57, only 1 sun flight today

Regarding the TC announcement, while an infrastructure rehabilitation announcement may seem 'boring', that's $4M less the Airport Authority needs to spend on boring stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesladom View Post
Personally I think the Feds should pony up the money to guarantee the profitability of both London and Frankfurt flights to Ottawa in order to facilitate Government operations. This should be seen differently than your traditional regional growth programs. As a G7 Capital city, we need direct daily flights to the major hubs
What would be helpful would be a federal program to help airports support new routes like the SCASD grant program in the USA. That program doesn't allow the mega airports to apply but would treat all applicants at airports that handle say fewer than 10M pax/year equally. It would force airports to present strong proposals for grant funding. SCASD is not designed to be a long-term subsidy but as funding to help a new route get off the ground successfully.

YOW-LHR & YOW-somewhere else in Europe will come back eventually. Yes it is frustrating to see the likes of YHZ, YQB and YEG not only get back transatlantic but expand it while we're shut out...unless WS somehow think about the east again (highly unlikely) and use one of their newfound unused LGW slots for a MAX flight out of YOW next summer. They still haven't announced their summer schedule, but it's pretty much a given all the YHZ-transatlantic ops are gone, meaning the YOW-YHZ feeder flight is also gone.

Last edited by Dominion301; Nov 29, 2022 at 4:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7214  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2022, 4:20 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 24,473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
What would be helpful would be a federal program to help airports support new routes like the SCASD grant program in the USA. That program doesn't allow the mega airports to apply but would treat all applicants at airports that handle say fewer than 10M pax/year equally. It would force airports to present strong proposals for grant funding.
Much better policy idea. But aviation is a cash cow to be milked in Canada. Not an industry that is subsidized like in the US. Doubtful this changes in our lifetime.

Also, a big part of why TMV airports have grown is the hubbing. Not o/d traffic as much. From this perspective, the best way to get more international long haul at YOW is to have Porter grow a fortress hub here that can feed foreign carriers.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7215  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2022, 4:50 PM
Zmonkey Zmonkey is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Much better policy idea. But aviation is a cash cow to be milked in Canada. Not an industry that is subsidized like in the US. Doubtful this changes in our lifetime.

Also, a big part of why TMV airports have grown is the hubbing. Not o/d traffic as much. From this perspective, the best way to get more international long haul at YOW is to have Porter grow a fortress hub here that can feed foreign carriers.
Still makes 0 sense we charge GST to one international destination - the USA.
It was left in there just to ensure governments keep getting money.

I'd rather see that go instead of the government putting up subsidies.

Part of this is obviously Covid and now less business demand, but part of it is also what policies we vote for, we voted provincally for a higher jet fuel tax under the Liberals, a carbon tax under the feds and some extra security fees back in 2000's under both Liberals and cons. That too pushes airlines to feed their hubs, one thing just compounds another.

Toronto and to a lesser extent Montreal gave Air Canada a great deal for landing fees (Air Canada doesn't pay any in Toronto), so it costs them nothing to keep adding flights there. Ottawa didn't compete.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7216  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2022, 5:33 AM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,909
Today’s departure count: 60, including 2 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count: 1
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7217  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2022, 11:39 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 24,473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmonkey View Post
Toronto and to a lesser extent Montreal gave Air Canada a great deal for landing fees (Air Canada doesn't pay any in Toronto), so it costs them nothing to keep adding flights there. Ottawa didn't compete.
I don't think this is a game Ottawa could compete in. Landing fees could be zeroed out and AC would only marginally increase flights here. The policy works for Toronto because they're competing against other Air Canada and other Star Alliance hubs. Being at that level requires a certain amount of origin-destination traffic. Ottawa is too small to have that.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7218  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2022, 2:20 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
I don't think this is a game Ottawa could compete in. Landing fees could be zeroed out and AC would only marginally increase flights here. The policy works for Toronto because they're competing against other Air Canada and other Star Alliance hubs. Being at that level requires a certain amount of origin-destination traffic. Ottawa is too small to have that.
Yes but the departure tax is a limiting factor. Have flown several Flair flights where the tax was 50 or even 80% of the total fare I paid. Obviously if they could offer true ULCC $20 all in fares they could fill more planes on the odd times. This was a decision by Ottawa to have a luxurious and above capacity airport. Sure the US has subsidies but they also let their Airports fall apart to keep costs low.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7219  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2022, 2:40 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 24,473
^ With the exception of the airport fee, all other taxes and fees are federally mandated and apply at every airport in Canada.

Landing fees are included in your fare. So I am not sure how you distinguished it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7220  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2022, 12:30 AM
Zmonkey Zmonkey is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
^ With the exception of the airport fee, all other taxes and fees are federally mandated and apply at every airport in Canada.

Landing fees are included in your fare. So I am not sure how you distinguished it.
It really can't be broken down to a customer, but could be used to attract and retain routes. Why did Flair move from Hamilton to Toronto? They were offered deep discounts on landing fees if they took on bad gates and poor landing times.

Sometimes you need to be creative and find ways to attract airlines. All of our rules push our system to be hubbed at bigger airports, you need something to counteract that. Ottawa hasn't even tried.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Transportation
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:46 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.